(Rumour) torts almost removed updated botch

[Carl's Jn]

torts isnt the problem. the new system is. you can teach an old dog new tricks.. can't expect offensive players to become defensive players in one season. can't expect edler to recover when salo was backing him up all the time, can't expect change when the gm can't get the right players to be defensive. why did we go all the way in 94... because we had a team that wanted to win.. we had a d man that can make a crisp pass 1 time out our zone... salo was gold for us... why did we go all the way to the cup final in 2011.. salo, and erhoff, torres, hammer.... basically the point i am making is who is that guy we have that can calm things down in our own end... the one guy who cleanly make that crisp one pass.... transition fokes....we don't have that anymore, and our offense is too busy blocking shots and playing around in the wrong side of the rink... prob isn't the coach, the prob is the style and the fact that we don't have the players to play that style. rather gm gillis sees this or not i hope so before he gets fired as well as torts....

[Carl's Jn]

to make things clear i am blaming gillis for not acquiring the right players, and torts for wanting to force that style of play. torts should of kept the old style in place for at least this year.

[amitriptyline]

Clearly it is not working out with Torts as coach. I hope he does get replaced by next season, or sooner. His style does not suit the Canucks. They are having way too much trouble with it, and it has killed the offense. I never liked the idea of using the Sedins for PK-ing either, or playing the top players with so many minutes. And he hasn't been able to push the players and get more out of them either, like many of us thought he would be able to do. This season has been a disaster of epic proportions. The team needs a new coach and a new GM. Gillis' time is over too.

[Lui's Knob]

Torts has to go. Gillis behind him and the entire scouting staff .

I'd be for Laviolette. Post dead puck era coach who went through a lot of change with the roster in Philly. Too bad we gave torts 5 years?!?!? Paying AV and him an a new coach. Ownership is a disaster

[Canuck or Die]

28-33 years old isn't in our prime?? ffs cdc

at least check our core's freaking age before saying that. If you want to watch a team that trade away every key players as soon as they hit 33 years old, you can go watch... o omg i think Vancovuer is the only team doing this.

and people wonder why this franchise never produce many superstars... You guys will chase them out of town as soon as they slump

And maybe you should take off your god damned blinders and quit getting so attached to players. This so-called core that you think is still in their prime has been on the decline for the last few years. AV couldn't get much out of them, and now it is continuing with Torts.

This core is not in their prime anymore. Get that through your head.

[Papayas]

And maybe you should take off your god damned blinders and quit getting so attached to players. This so-called core that you think is still in their prime has been on the decline for the last few years. AV couldn't get much out of them, and now it is continuing with Torts.

This core is not in their prime anymore. Get that through your head.

ya, the guys who are in their 20s aren't in their prime anymore~ we should sell the team and rebuild with guys in their late 10s !

ffs cdc...

for some reason I have a feeling that when you don't even know wtf does the term "prime" means.. players peak in certain season for various of reasons, it doesn't mean they are not in their prime if they can't score 100 points per season forever.

I mean jesus christ the Sedins won their Hart and Art ross when they are 31-32. That's 2-3 years older than our current Kesler and most of the crew.

it is you who should take your head out of your ares

[J529]

Way too premature to be saying that.

The mistake was trading away center depth for winger depth, and having no real plan to replace it.

All Kassian does is take dumb penalties. Case in point the two times he's been suspended this year.

Hilarity when he was being compared as next coming of Milan Lucic. Laughable.

[Papayas]

All Kassian does is take dumb penalties. Case in point the two times he's been suspended this year.

Hilarity when he was being compared as next coming of Milan Lucic. Laughable.

he was being compare to those power forwards because of his skill set. You honestly think Lucic or the Bruins in general didn't do anything suspension worthy action in the last couple of years? the only difference is that the league will not take action against the Bruins unless things are really bad.

[elvis15]

- check no trade clauses buddy. we have way more than other teams. we have 9 compared to LA at 1, Rangers 4 -two teams eh? I'm glad you provided an exhaustive list

- you got me on Erhoff. My mistake. -it was a pretty obvious one

- yes low cost for Booth, but bad pick up anyway. I will forgive Gillis on this since Kesler apparently was behind bringing in Booth. I also feel he is never utilized properly by coaches -there's no one to blame but Booth himself, he's trying to do the right things but has had injury issues partly on him and he just hasn't had the finish despite plenty of chances - hindsight's 20/20 but it was a good trade

- i am complaining he took over 3 years to get a top 6. Its hard, sure. Should not take this long. Other teams add them, why can't he? -very first year he was here he added Demitra and Sundin, Bernier and Wellwood were moneyball pickups, the second year he added Samuelsson, the third our top 6 was established enough to make spending significantly not worth the upgrade so he added to our bottom 6 in Malhotra, Higgins, Torres and Lapierre, Hodgson was coming into the fold as well - see a trend? but feel free to share the better top 6 players you would have traded for and what it would have cost us

- Luongo situation is way more than the heritage classic. You try being a professional and being told for almost 2 years and neing told you will be traded.Then to ride backup. Heritage classic was a huge insult but more on Torts. -easier said than done to trade a goalie with a long term contract that had recently been used as the poster child for cap recapture, all at the same time as the cap being reduced significantly - the rumours of Luongo blocking at least one trade that wasn't with Florida early on sheds a different light on the situation as well

- Prospects - better now but we got Horvat for overpayment. You seem to know this and blame the situation (understandable). Shinkaruk was a fluke since Calgary is stupid. Gaunce is pretty good. Cassels and Jensen are fine. Our prospects look better but you can't deny this 50 games drafting. Raymond went in 05 I believe so that means nobody played 50 games in a Canucks uniform since Gillis era in 2007. Hodgson is a stretch considering he got dealt. I can count Kassian? How are teams like Hawks, Pens and Bruins (Red Wings to!) able to use draft picks well? -the situation was a major factor, and if there'd been a better offer before or even at that time then I could find fault with Gillis but there wasn't, as for the prospects Hodgson isn't a stretch, he's a fact, the Hawks were terrible for years which got them their stars, same with the Pens, and the Bruins were gifted excellent picks by Toronto in the Kessel trade, the Red Wings are the model for most teams but they have a long term development plan for all their prospects

- Kesler deal - I have heard that rumor but also heard a Sutter, 1st, Desperes or Pouliot and Bennett. -if you have a source share it, I followed the rumours closely and didn't hear that from any reputable source

- This deal should have been done if true. The one you posted should have been rejected, as he did. -you're points are out of order so I have no idea what you're talking about, or are you talking about the deal above that has no reputable source that I've seen? if it had been true it perhaps would have been done, but then that assumes Kesler would waive his NTC when he's said he didn't ask for a trade nor was he asked to waive his NTC

Keep trying.

[RyanKeslord17]

Fire Torts?

Replace him with who?

Sorry, the PP isn't working? oh that's right because the last season and a half we have been total PP monsters in the league right?

Scoring isn't there? That's right, the last seasons and a half we have been 4 goal per game monsters...

Straight up, AV couldn't get this club going. He got canned. Torts cannot get this club going and...it's a coaching problem?

if two separate coaches cannot get this club going it is NOT a coaching issue, especially as one of those coaches won back to back presidents trophies and was in a SCF.

it is not the coaches, start firing coaches now and ask yourself how firing coaches every season or so is helping the powerhouse Edmonton club....

It is the players, the core and nothing more. We need a roster change and maybe a GM change not a coaching change

This exactly

[SuperReverb2]

Torts is NOT the problem. He is merely the vehicle that has finally exposed this team for what it is. It's a team of aging veterans that were babied and coddled by AV for 7 years, that is now getting VERY OLD before our eyes. YES, that did get them to one game of winning it all, but the emotional and physical abuse they took along the way has never healed. That fact is painfully obvious and was the major reason AV got fired a scant two seasons after the cup run. The PP started to go in the tank, the scoring dried up, the desire dried up, etc., etc., etc., all resulting in the Canucks limping into the playoffs and getting blown out in the first round two years in a row. First point! The decline DID NOT start with Torts.It was well under way with AV and was clearly the reason he got fired. Torts was hired by Gillis and or Aquilini to bring more aggressive "in your face" defensive style of hockey to this team. Point two! DO NOT blame Torts for doing the job he was hired to do. In that respect he has delivered in spades. If you want to assign blame, then put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the GM and or the owners for failing to supply Torts with the correct team/players for his coaching style. Torts is doing what he was hired to do. Unfortunately the GM, the owners, an especially the players are not.

[King Heffy]

Unfortunately, AV was allowed to stay around so long that bad habits have been permanently ingrained. Edler seems convinced it's OK to not bother making an attempt at actually playing defense, in large part due to AV's refusal to punish him for his atrocious play last year. There's still no real accountability, and that starts with the captain constantly saying that the team played well. The real solution is to strip the letters from both the twins, giving Bieksa the C, with Kesler getting one A.

Meanwhile, we need to bring in a real GM who can convince our lazier players to waive their NTCs, and actually be trusted to get an acceptable return.

[Fozzy]

There's a middle ground between not talking to your players and berating them non stop.

Tortorella seems to have done what I was worried he was going to do, which is to come in with guns blazing.

Biggest mistake a coach can make. You've gotta earn respect from your players if you expect to receive it. These guys don't know him well enough and haven't been through enough with him to get called out like they are. He lost the room, plain and simple.

Fair point DeNiro but apart from the Hansen pointing saga how do we know he berates individuals in the dressing room? The Hansen thing was in the middle of a game so I can understand he was piss-d at him for not doing what he should of done. (Let's face it Hansen didn't put a lot of effort on that back check which cost the team a goal)

[Angry Goose]

It might still be a but pre-mature to be passing judgement on Torts. With all the injuries the Canucks have had, it may bias such.

If Gillis is around next year, Torts deserves another shot as well.

[Fozzy]

I can't really see how CDC can blame Torts for everything wrong with team. Daniel has been a shadow of his former self since that concussion( Dam torts for doing that to him)

The alignment of the divisions has had a big effect on this team. We aren't good enough against the big teams anymore (Dam Torts for asking the league to change the match ups)

This team has been short of a quality second liner for two years now to pair up with Kes (Dam Torts for not asking Gillis two seasons ago to get that player)

People sit here and give the players a free ride. The Sedins have been a shadow of their former self this season whether that is down to hidden injuries or not I dont know but let's face it our first line is truly pathetic.

People forget this team got bounced two years in a row in the first round. Funny how it was against teams that are ahead of us in the standings. Teams that are better than us. Gillis should of done something about this when we were bounced by the Kings.

But yeah let's blame Torts for that.

[TheXFactor]

Tort's defensive system doesn't seem to work for the team unfortunately, but he's not the only one at fault for the team's poor performances. Management, injuries, and a lack of effort by most players are huge factors.

[stawns]

Wowza that would have been a quick reaction. I personally think it's Gillis who needs to go.

And the players need an attitude adjustment. This isn't AV anymore. This guy is tough and passionate and emotional. It doesn't mean he's wrong. It just means you gotta work like a dog for his systems to work. So smarten up and play harder. Geez.

it's pretty obvious to anyone with any depth of hockey knowledge that there are a few key issues.

1. JT is waaaaay over his head in the West. There has been no definable system, beyond "hustle" from day 1. He is being exposed for what he is.......an old school motivator in a tactical systems based league. The best teams, with the best coaches are in the West. As a topper, he's completely burned out the three players that he absolutely needed to even be remotely successful and alienated the role players, like Hansen, by publically ridiculing them.

2. The players see this and have completely quit on him. Night in and night out they are outplayed by teams with coaches who see the obvious holes in JT's approach.

3. MG has completely failed to upgrade this team in any significant way over the last three years when it was painfully obvious that changes needed to be made the season after their Cup run. Instead he tried to bandaid the roster and refused to see the nose in front of is face.........and this isn't even bringing up the goalie situation that he botched beyond an comprehensible reasoning.

When MG was hired, many of us had some serious concerns, but I don't think anyone saw this colossal mess in the future......same with JT. Sadly, he's not going anywhere unless FA is willing to pay him for 5 years because JT will likely be unemployable after the mess he's made here......this was last chance gas for him and he's blown it.

[theilluminati]

ya, the guys who are in their 20s aren't in their prime anymore~ we should sell the team and rebuild with guys in their late 10s !

ffs cdc...

for some reason I have a feeling that when you don't even know wtf does the term "prime" means.. players peak in certain season for various of reasons, it doesn't mean they are not in their prime if they can't score 100 points per season forever.

I mean jesus christ the Sedins won their Hart and Art ross when they are 31-32. That's 2-3 years older than our current Kesler and most of the crew.

it is you who should take your head out of your ares

Wow you don't even know your own team. Henrik was 29 the season he won the Art Ross and Hart, Daniel was 30 the year he won the Art Ross and Lindsay.

Here is the "core" of the Canucks and their ages...please tell me how "most of the crew" are 2-3 years younger than 31-32.

Sedins 33

Burrows 32 (33 in less than a month)

Bieksa 32 (33 in June)

Hamhuis 31

Higgins 31 (32 in June)

Kesler 29

Garrison 29

Edler 27

The funniest part is that the 3 youngest members of the "core"-Kesler, Garrison and Edler- are the 3 that seem to come up when most fans want players traded lately.

[Pouria]

I don't think he's the right coach. It's not even close, this is almost the same team as last year, look at the difference in EVERYTHING. from scoring , standings, penalty kill, power play, it's a huge difference, this team literally played better under A.V's system vs Torterella's system. It's very dissapointing, how wrong we are, at this point. I remember back in December we were all happy about Torts, like look at it. Yea, sure you can say this team is hampered with injuries, last year the Canucks lost Ryan Kesler for almost the entire year, i'm sorry to say this.

A.V might be a better coach by virtue of having a much more effective "system" in place, vs Tortz, who probably is a better motivator, but the system not equally as effective as A.V's.

I'm begging for a coaching change.

At first I thought Torts would actually be good for this team and we would even do something in the playoffs. I have slowly realized how wrong I was and the fact that we might not make the playoffs this year with a team that won the division last year make me think Torts is not the right fit for this team. The fact that iron man Henrik Sedin who went 8-9 seasons without any injuries until this year, speaks volumes of how our players are being utilized right now.

[Pouria]

I can't really see how CDC can blame Torts for everything wrong with team. Daniel has been a shadow of his former self since that concussion( Dam torts for doing that to him)

The alignment of the divisions has had a big effect on this team. We aren't good enough against the big teams anymore (Dam Torts for asking the league to change the match ups)

This team has been short of a quality second liner for two years now to pair up with Kes (Dam Torts for not asking Gillis two seasons ago to get that player)

People sit here and give the players a free ride. The Sedins have been a shadow of their former self this season whether that is down to hidden injuries or not I dont know but let's face it our first line is truly pathetic.

People forget this team got bounced two years in a row in the first round. Funny how it was against teams that are ahead of us in the standings. Teams that are better than us. Gillis should of done something about this when we were bounced by the Kings.

But yeah let's blame Torts for that.

Torts isn't getting all the blames but he is also responsible for the injuries that have accumulated and the fact that we can't score more than 1 goal unless we are playing Calgary. I mean we aren't a team full of AHLer's and we do have some scorers and some good NHL players. Torts rode the team hard at the beginning of the season when we were winning some games and we were in a playoff position. Now, we are getting to see the consequences.