[Speculation] Kesler to remain a Canuck

[tas]

These are management quotes. I don't recall St Louis or Mike Richards saying they "love this city". So not a valid point.

a player saying they love the city they play in is equivalent to a rock band referencing the town they're performing in during a live show.

its carries no weight.

[shiznak]

Pouliot is 20 years old - 2 years (23 months) older than Honka.

Honka isn't as high profile but I wouldn't be so quick to prejudge him - if you do an age comparable, Honka has just as impressive numbers in the Dub, particularly if you consider that he's playing for Swift Current and not the absolutely stacked Portland Winterhawks.

Pouliot was still 10lbs heavier at the same age. He brings more elements to the game both offensively and defensively, whereas Honka is more offensive minded. Pouliot can probably step into the lineup next year, as well.

[messier's_elbow]

   

I don't think that poster would disagree with you. At this point Kesler is saying all the right things, which likely makes him even more attractive to other teams. If the right deal is there, the Canucks should do it.

On a side note, wasn't Brandon Sutter one of the rumored returns for Kesler? Sutter has almost a point a game in the playoffs and is a +6. Just saying

Add Pouliot and you might have something....

[oldnews]

Which makes him more likely to NOT be available at the 18th selection. Couturier has not proved he has the chops to be a #1 centerman in this league although I am confident he will definitely be better than Kesler in his prime. He will most likely be an excellent #2 with a 2-way game much along the likes of what Bo Horvat is projected to be but I doubt he is a PPG centerman or better unless you want to claim he is the 2nd coming of Mike Modano or JonathanToews. 2-way #2 centermen are more easily found or developed rather than #1 PPG centermen. We need a future potential PPG centerman more than another 2-way centerman which we already have 2 of in our prospect pool and one in our current lineup. In 4 years we have to answer the question what will we replace Henrik Sedin with and I highly doubt Couturier is the answer.

What makes this proposal a tad unrealistic is the fact that I doubt Philly even values Kesler this much and they would be much better off trading Couturier/Schenn for D while Pittsburgh desperately needs a solid checking line center who can shut down opponents and kill penalties. I don't think Philly is THAT interested in Kesler's services when they already have a younger, cheaper player with more potential getting that done for them.

You don't need to and aren't likely to acquire a future potential ppg 1C in a Kesler deal.

Something like the 6th overall could come in handy in that respect.

Pittsburgh isn't desperate for a third line checking center - they have Goc and Sutter. If they were desperate, they probably wouldn't have wasted time lowballing.

[oldnews]

I wouldn't be quite as sure as you folks that Kesler would be keen to waive in order to go play 3C behind Crosby and Malkin.

Staal grew out of that role and they had to move him.

I'd be surprised if he gave it a second thought.

I'd see somewhere like St Louis as a greater possibility, or Columbus. Somewhere he remains at least in a 1B or 2C role.

Kesler, Schroeder to St Louis for Tarasenko, Sobotka, Hakanpaa.

[Baggins]

a player saying they love the city they play in is equivalent to a rock band referencing the town they're performing in during a live show.

its carries no weight.

A rock band that appears in a city once a year is not quite the same as a hockey player that lives 9 to 10 months in one city for a decade with his wife (sometimes a local girl) and their kids now is it. I'd have to give the hockey players honest opinion of the city far, far more weight than a band just passing through.

[Baggins]

Pouliot is 20 years old - 2 years (23 months) older than Honka.

Honka isn't as high profile but I wouldn't be so quick to prejudge him - if you do an age comparable, Honka has just as impressive numbers in the Dub, particularly if you consider that he's playing for Swift Current and not the absolutely stacked Portland Winterhawks.

Which at that age a quite an advantage in junior over an 18 year old. It's an extra two years of physical and mental maturity while playing against kids as young as 16.

[Absent Canuck]

A rock band that appears in a city once a year is not quite the same as a hockey player that lives 9 to 10 months in one city for a decade with his wife (sometimes a local girl) and their kids now is it. I'd have to give the hockey players honest opinion of the city far, far more weight than a band just passing through.

Agreed but the real issue is Ryans desire to win the cup, and our desire to rebuild with high end youth.

Kesler can demand to stay all he wants but his career will go nowhere and he will waste the glory years of his prime. Our team wont be a true contender anytime soon.

[BurgerKing]

 

If Philly is prepared to pay up after the Rags finish them off tonight,

Couturier, their 1st (18th overall - take Honka) and a mid rounder/b prospect would be hard to pass up imo.

 Kes already said no to phillie at the deadline, apparently it was B.Schenn and the first according to Bob McKenzie

[BurgerKing]

I think Anaheim has most to offer, Vatanen, Palmieri, Smith-Pelly, Rakell, Etem, Silvrberg, #10 pick. The hang up at the deadline was Ana didn't want to trade anyone off the current roster, but in off season, especially if they lose in round 2, Palmieri and/or Silvrberg should be available. Plus Kes would be perfect for that team, slot in at 2nd line center. My issue with Pit is, if it take around 4 years for Van to get good again, Sutter will be too old. So unless they feel Pouliot can be a number 1 d and run the powerplay, I wouldn't make the trade. Also if Pouliot is that good, I don't see Pit giving him up, Letang is not great defensively and they're paying him a boat load, still young, Maybe they ship him out (not nessisarily to Van) and hang on to Pouliot.

[messier's_elbow]

I think Anaheim has most to offer, Vatanen, Palmieri, Smith-Pelly, Rakell, Etem, Silvrberg, #10 pick. The hang up at the deadline was Ana didn't want to trade anyone off the current roster, but in off season, especially if they lose in round 2, Palmieri and/or Silvrberg should be available. Plus Kes would be perfect for that team, slot in at 2nd line center. My issue with Pit is, if it take around 4 years for Van to get good again, Sutter will be too old. So unless they feel Pouliot can be a number 1 d and run the powerplay, I wouldn't make the trade. Also if Pouliot is that good, I don't see Pit giving him up, Letang is not great defensively and they're paying him a boat load, still young, Maybe they ship him out (not nessisarily to Van) and hang on to Pouliot.

I could honestly see us trading with the Penguins if they are willing to part with Pouliot. I dont see us trading with the Ducks. It would have to be an overpayment.

[Baggins]

Agreed but the real issue is Ryans desire to win the cup, and our desire to rebuild with high end youth.

Kesler can demand to stay all he wants but his career will go nowhere and he will waste the glory years of his prime. Our team wont be a true contender anytime soon.

For some location is more important than money or even an improved shot at the cup. Lacking the proverbial crystal ball you can't really say it would be impossible for him to win a cup playing here. You could have said the same about Mitchell signing in LA. What a waste of time for his career. They backed their way in to the playoffs and were rather unexpected winners. You never know what will happen down the road and Kesler still has years of playing time ahead of him. In the end it will be his decision alone to stay or go based solely on what he sees as best for himself and his family.

[tas]

A rock band that appears in a city once a year is not quite the same as a hockey player that lives 9 to 10 months in one city for a decade with his wife (sometimes a local girl) and their kids now is it. I'd have to give the hockey players honest opinion of the city far, far more weight than a band just passing through.

the point though is that no player would ever give less than a very positive review of the city they live in while speaking publicly. "i love it here and we have the best fans in the world" is a stock response for any player in any city in any circumstance. it doesn't necessarily represent their true feelings.

[TheOgRook]

a player saying they love the city they play in is equivalent to a rock band referencing the town they're performing in during a live show.

its carries no weight.

Speaking as somebody who has done both... I'll tell you you are wrong.. Big difference to touring through a city and living in a city for a number of years. Nice try though

[Nino]

I wouldn't be quite as sure as you folks that Kesler would be keen to waive in order to go play 3C behind Crosby and Malkin.

Staal grew out of that role and they had to move him.

I'd be surprised if he gave it a second thought.

I'd see somewhere like St Louis as a greater possibility, or Columbus. Somewhere he remains at least in a 1B or 2C role.

Kesler, Schroeder to St Louis for Tarasenko, Sobotka, Hakanpaa.

From my understanding the intention was for kess to play on the wing in pits.

[elvis15]

the point though is that no player would ever give less than a very positive review of the city they live in while speaking publicly. "i love it here and we have the best fans in the world" is a stock response for any player in any city in any circumstance. it doesn't necessarily represent their true feelings.

So instead of assuming it's a stock statement, you should be asking the question of what he did say that elevates it to genuine.

He didn't just say, "I love this city," he added to that with, "My family has grown up here and I've already enrolled my son in school for next year." If he had plans to move either at the deadline or in the offseason, why would he enrol his son in a new school year and - more importantly - why would he use that fact as a means to really convince us he doesn't want to leave?

[JiffyPB]

You don't need to and aren't likely to acquire a future potential ppg 1C in a Kesler deal.

Something like the 6th overall could come in handy in that respect.

Pittsburgh isn't desperate for a third line checking center - they have Goc and Sutter. If they were desperate, they probably wouldn't have wasted time lowballing.

True, but why stack up on tons of potential #2 centerman instead of going after something we genuinely need and are unlikely to draft this year and the next? Pouliot will fill a need in our prospect pool now and we don't have to worry about drafting someone of his calibre down the line and then wait longer for that player to develop. You have to realize where the holes on your team are going to be and in 2 years both Hamhuis and Bieksa have their contracts expire at which point Hamhuis will be 33 and Bieksa will be 34. We'll end up building a solid forward group in the draft and then we're going to have this aging D that will need to be replaced. The only serious D prospect we currently have that even comes close to those two players potential-wise would be Corrado. Additionally, if we ARE in theory to draft a #1 centerman in this draft why the heck would you want to keep that player and then proceed to trade Kesler for Couturier when you already have Horvat in your farm system?

The reason they want Kesler is they want an overtalented 3rd line centerman (much like Stoll) who can shut people down, provide more offense than what Sutter gives them and can step up and take over the role of #2 centerman unlike Goc if there is an injury to one of their top 2 or if Malkin and Crosby need to play on the same line. The acquisition of Kesler would also allow them to play Crosby less (especially on the penalty kill). Kesler would be willing to go to Pittsburgh because he would end up on a contending team rather than be stuck on a mediocre one that is in need of a rebuild and may no longer want him in the future as Horvat and Gaunce progress in their development.

[elvis15]

   Kes already said no to phillie at the deadline, apparently it was B.Schenn and the first according to Bob McKenzie

I don't think I ever saw Bob tweet that, do you have a link? I did a search and I found a tweet from one of the unreliable hockey rumour twitter accounts but nothing else reporting that's what was offered.

There was certainly speculation that's what it would take from Philly if they were to offer something, but from what I heard Philly never really pursued a Kesler trade (and Kesler never agreed to waive for Philly anyway as you mentioned).

[tas]

So instead of assuming it's a stock statement, you should be asking the question of what he did say that elevates it to genuine.

He didn't just say, "I love this city," he added to that with, "My family has grown up here and I've already enrolled my son in school for next year." If he had plans to move either at the deadline or in the offseason, why would he enrol his son in a new school year and - more importantly - why would he use that fact as a means to really convince us he doesn't want to leave?

two simple facts. yes, his family grew up here. he enrolled his son because for most good schools you have to enrol early or you won't get in.

i didn't feel like either statement added weight.

[oldnews]

True, but why stack up on tons of potential #2 centerman instead of going after something we genuinely need and are unlikely to draft this year and the next? Pouliot will fill a need in our prospect pool now and we don't have to worry about drafting someone of his calibre down the line and then wait longer for that player to develop. You have to realize where the holes on your team are going to be and in 2 years both Hamhuis and Bieksa have their contracts expire at which point Hamhuis will be 33 and Bieksa will be 34. We'll end up building a solid forward group in the draft and then we're going to have this aging D that will need to be replaced. The only serious D prospect we currently have that even comes close to those two players potential-wise would be Corrado. Additionally, if we ARE in theory to draft a #1 centerman in this draft why the heck would you want to keep that player and then proceed to trade Kesler for Couturier when you already have Horvat in your farm system?

The reason they want Kesler is they want an overtalented 3rd line centerman (much like Stoll) who can shut people down, provide more offense than what Sutter gives them and can step up and take over the role of #2 centerman unlike Goc if there is an injury to one of their top 2 or if Malkin and Crosby need to play on the same line. The acquisition of Kesler would also allow them to play Crosby less (especially on the penalty kill). Kesler would be willing to go to Pittsburgh because he would end up on a contending team rather than be stuck on a mediocre one that is in need of a rebuild and may no longer want him in the future as Horvat and Gaunce progress in their development.

First of all, I've never suggested that acquiring Pouliot isn't a good idea - what I proposed was a Couturier, 1st deal and drafting Honka, to which people responded 'but, but we need a pmd." Honka is also that, and a damn good one - suggesting that they acquire Pouliot does not disqualify the idea that Honka is also a good option, particularly considering Pittsburgh dragging their feet. lowballing, and pretending that Kesler isn't good enough to include Pouliot in a deal for.

The idea that dealing Kesler and returning Couturier leaves the Canucks with too many two way centers is a non-starter with me - having a pair of centers on any given line is not a problem, it's an asset - two guys with the defensive sense of a center and ability to take draws is an added element of strength. If you look at some of the better teams in the NHL, it's not uncommon that they have a half dozen forwards dressed that are natural centers.