Junkyard Dog Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Speeza is only about 14 months older and what if Kesler walks after 2 seasons? Btw Kesler was a minus15, for a defensive centre.. Spezza was -26 last year, 2 years older, only 1 year left on his contract and has a caphit $2mil higher than Kesler. Spezza could walk after next year and Anaheim will have given up a ton for a rental. Kesler is a far better option. Both of you shouldn't judge the value of players based from one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 You DON'T undersell Kesler to Conf rivals out of desperation. Stand by your guns on this, I say. ^THREE decent pieces(like Castiel's suggestion above)..not only two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The thing is though, the Ducks don't need Kesler as much as they want him. They already have the gritty two way center in Getzlaf. Spezza will also draw more favourable matchups and flourish in that role. Plus Anaheim and Ottawa's trading history. I wouldn't put it past them. They may just take him. If I am the Ducks don't want Spezza but I use him as leverage anyway. I wouldn't want to add a 7 million cap hit when I already have two players with 8 million + cap hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Both of you shouldn't judge the value of players based from one season. I never did I was responding to more naive homerism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed or Size Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 ANH has begun the media posturing... Saying they are interested in Spezza, I know they would rather have Kes but they are clearly floating that out there to let Benning know they have other options. Our leverage is slipping away by the day, We have just lost leverage with CHI and ANH, I think it's too late now. They didn't strike while the iron was hot, they pulled an MG and waited for un-realistic deal to happen. I expect to have an un-happy Kesler in training camp, and a Luongo 2.0 situation to drag on through out the season, before we finally either lose Kes to FA, or let him go for much less then what has been offered. The market was re-hot for Kes and now it has cooled significantly. Thats nice More like both anaheim and chicago are desperate form him to compete with the kings and benning knows kesler ia the number 1 trade proapect since nash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Red hot? You mean the one where Pittsburgh was offering us their 3rd line center, one of two depth defenceman prospects and some late round picks? Yep. Some people are just clueless. Doesn't stop them from posting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skead Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 ANH has begun the media posturing... Saying they are interested in Spezza, I know they would rather have Kes but they are clearly floating that out there to let Benning know they have other options. Our leverage is slipping away by the day, We have just lost leverage with CHI and ANH, I think it's too late now. They didn't strike while the iron was hot, they pulled an MG and waited for un-realistic deal to happen. I expect to have an un-happy Kesler in training camp, and a Luongo 2.0 situation to drag on through out the season, before we finally either lose Kes to FA, or let him go for much less then what has been offered. The market was re-hot for Kes and now it has cooled significantly. Why don't we wait until draft before freaking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I never did I was responding to more naive homerism. An extra year on a contract is bigger than you are making it out to be and so is the $2mil cap. Kesler plays against the other teams top line. Spezza? If Spezza is comparable/better than Kesler, how come teams like Pits, Chicago (elite teams) are going after Kesler and not Spezza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Yep. Some people are just clueless. Doesn't stop them from posting though. I posted several new factors that have direct bearing on where the market for Kes is at the moment, and a hypothesis based on those factors. I put them out there for the purpose of discussion, either you agree or don't and you post the reasons why, then we are able to discuss those as well. From where I stand, that is appropriate use of a Kesler discussion thread. When people start throwing around personal terms like "Clueless" In a non-personal, anonymous forum I tend to think they have come here, not to discuss hockey, but to look for an ego-lift they aren't getting in the real world. My background in Psychology has shown me the hard science that supports this conclusion. At any rate, I would have expected better from you, I'll go back to talking Hockey and you go back to doing whatever you are doing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Berglund, Rattie and a 3rd was suggested? I'd like more than the 3rd. But I'd take it! Berglund is young, waay over 220 lbs and a solid 2/3C. Rattie has upside. I'd prefer Sobotka, Rattie and a 2knd?? And I understand St Lou has inquired? To me they should be looking at a scoring pivot. Already having Backes and Berglund as defensive centres, how good would they look with Spezza, Stastny or Thornton? Hell even Kadri or Lecavalier if they need a budget option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 StL must be experiencing a sense of desperation. They've been upper-echelon for a while now, but haven't really accomplished anything. Meanwhile, a div-rival like Chi has won it all twice. Now a couple others are emerging with combinations of youth, speed & size/talent(Minn & Col). Nash will be arriving soon, with a 'Great Wall' of blueline. Their key youth appear a tad smallish to me. Doesn't fit the profile of larger, skilled types that just won in LA. On top of that their gting was musical chairs(similar to Ana), & now the music's stopped, they're counting on a younger, inexperienced guy to run with it. In a season or two(at most, 3), this team will likely crash hard. Do they gamble on Kesler? If I'm him, don't think I'd go there, if he's truly into winning. Never been their tradition. St Louis is HUGE already. One of the leagues biggest teams. Don't forget they are anchored by Backes and Berglund as 1C and 2C. Both 220 lbs plus. Steen is not small, Bouwmeester is 6'20" almost on D. They also have big depth players. Reeves is 230 lbs and an extremely good athlete, not just a lugger. What they also have is lots of scoring wing talent (Schwartz, Oshie, Steen, Tarasenko) and ability to move the puck from the D (Pietrangelo, Shatenkirk). They lack only a great play making presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Berglund, Rattie and a 3rd was suggested? I'd like more than the 3rd. But I'd take it! Berglund is young, waay over 220 lbs and a solid 2/3C. Rattie has upside. I'd prefer Sobotka, Rattie and a 2knd?? And I understand St Lou has inquired? To me they should be looking at a scoring pivot. Already having Backes and Berglund as defensive centres, how good would they look with Spezza, Stastny or Thornton? Hell even Kadri or Lecavalier if they need a budget option! I think they peaked, & will start trending downhill. edit...You're prob right. Haven't seen enough of these guys last few yrs..Prob cos 'Panger's' enthusiastic analysis give the holy-jumpin'jeevies?.. Just feel like they're missing an ingredient in the mulligatawny. Always seems the case, with these guys. Regarding size.. it seems mostly vets, with size (some are soft, as well). Lastly, after Murray & Hitchcock, they're prob burned-out. When Davidson was there they seemed to make some heady moves..did that wisdom shuffle off to CBJ? CBJ is what I hope WE model for. StL is quickly turning into the Sharks..they'll have a yard-sale in 12~18 months, I'll predict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 ^Strange Surfer..was responding to one of your posts simultaneously as you were addressing mine. Gonna edit 1 accordingly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 The thing is though, the Ducks don't need Kesler as much as they want him. They already have the gritty two way center in Getzlaf. Spezza will also draw more favourable matchups and flourish in that role. Plus Anaheim and Ottawa's trading history. I wouldn't put it past them. They may just take him. I agree with you to the largest extent. The issue is cost / reward where buyers are concerned. My opinion is Spezza and Kesler will have a similar acquisition cost. Although they help in different ways, Sure Getzlaf may be a capable 2 way guy, but matching him up for D zone draws against top opposing lines still takes him away from the offensive end. Providing an alternate scoring pivot could help or just distract Getzlaf from a role where the team has a Hart candidate already? With Anaheim I think Kesler fits better. Spezza also get's 1 year at $7 mill cap hit, Kesler two at $5 mill that buys an extra year and $2 mill extra flexibility to fill out a line up, perhaps get two cups instead of one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I think they peaked, & will start trending downhill. edit...You're prob right. Haven't seen enough of these guys last few yrs..Prob cos 'Panger's' enthusiastic analysis give the holy-jumpin'jeevies?.. Just feel like they're missing an ingredient in the mulligatawny. Always seems the case, with these guys. Regarding size.. it seems mostly vets, with size (some are soft, as well). Lastly, after Murray & Hitchcock, they're prob burned-out. When Davidson was there they seemed to make some heady moves..did that wisdom shuffle off to CBJ? CBJ is what I hope WE model for. StL is quickly turning into the Sharks..they'll have a yard-sale in 12~18 months, I'll predict. I don't think they have peaked. In Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester they have years worth of high quality D core locked up in their prime. They'll just have to manage how they fill that out. They still have capable Jackman and Leopold signed next year, Polak for 2 more years. Backes, Steen, Berglund are all in their prime. Oshie, Schwartz, Tarasenko are now established, burgeoning young players searching for their peak. And I think they will grow more without any doubt, raising the team with them. Sobotka is also one of the leagues great young secrets IMO. Only a step behind, perhaps underutilized as they have several others sharing his role. He'll get a bit more time as I don't see them re-signing Derek Roy. I don't think Sobotka is far behind and they all have plenty of upside to lift the team. They also retain some very good young talent in Jake Allen and Ty Rattie who have yet to even make the line up. Between centres Backes, Berglund, Oshie (who plays primarily wing cuz they're log jammed) and Sobotka > there is plenty of scope to convert excess depth into the scoring pivot they need to ascend to an upper echelon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I don't think they have peaked. In Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester they have years worth of high quality D core locked up in their prime. They'll just have to manage how they fill that out. They still have capable Jackman and Leopold signed next year, Polak for 2 more years. Backes, Steen, Berglund are all in their prime. Oshie, Schwartz, Tarasenko are now established, burgeoning young players searching for their peak. And I think they will grow more without any doubt, raising the team with them. Sobotka is also one of the leagues great young secrets IMO. Only a step behind, perhaps underutilized as they have several others sharing his role. He'll get a bit more time as I don't see them re-signing Derek Roy. I don't think Sobotka is far behind and they all have plenty of upside to lift the team. They also retain some very good young talent in Jake Allen and Ty Rattie who have yet to even make the line up. Between centres Backes, Berglund, Oshie (who plays primarily wing cuz they're log jammed) and Sobotka > there is plenty of scope to convert excess depth into the scoring pivot they need to ascend to an upper echelon. You make a good argument..further variables: -How committed are ownership? As the cap climbs, will theirs? -Will Jake Allen deliver? Their lack of a top-flight GT(historically), seems to represent their inability to ever surge through in Spring. -Their key youth is undersized. They dealt picks for JBo/Miller..this will catch up to them(for it didn't pay), as it did to us. Their larger vets aren't dynamic/clutch enough. -Three central teams are now running next to them; soon might be 4 or 5(Nash/Dall). The media would have us believe that JBo/Miller were bold & wise moves. They should have gone for a true sniper(like Gaborik, was cheap), & maybe Cory Schneider. By this time, Hitch's message is probably grating on the crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyllenhaal Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'm starting to think GMJB and Linden want a player that could fill the 2nd line center position in a Kesler deal. something I would do is: ANA Kesler VAN Mathieu Perreault Emerson Etem ANA 2014 1st DET Kesler VAN Riley Sheahan Ryan Sproul DET 2014 1st PIT Kesler VAN Brandon Sutter Derrick Pouliot PIT 2014 1st PHI Kesler VAN Brayden Schenn Robert Hagg PHI 2014 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 St Louis is the best destination for Spezza. They need a high end playmaking center. Anaheim and the Pens are the best places Kes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Red hot? You mean the one where Pittsburgh was offering us their 3rd line center, one of two depth defenceman prospects and some late round picks? No, I mean the ones where ANH offered us 10th, 24th, Etem or Pallmieri, and their 2015 1st and CHI offered us Shaw and TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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