Maniwaki Canuck Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Nylander didn't even put up many points. How do we know he's as/more skilled than Ehlers or the others? As for Ritchie, he could bust and still turn into a 3rd or 4th line player who os still usefull. Where is Nylander going to fit if he busts. Understand my point? Just not comfortable risking the 6th overall pick on Nylander. Maybe if he's still available at 10th... You've already lost if you're thinking 3rd or 4th line from a top 6 pick. This is the kind of thinking that leads to drafting players like Sandlak or Stojanov. Go for the home run and take your lumps if you blow it, but never, ever, waste a high pick with this failing strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonder__Bread Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I don't know why people keep saying, "Virtanen is good, but he's not worth 6th overall. Maybe if we dropped back to 8-9 or so, then I would take him." The ISS ranks him at 7. These people watch and analyze these propspects for a living. If anyone's word is good, it's theirs. They think Virtanen is the 6th best forward, and 7th best overall, so I don't think taking him at 6 is so bad. In fact, 6th overall is right around where he should be taken. I just don't understand why people. If you don't like him as a prospect, I understand, but please acknowledge that he is and should be in the conversation for 6th overall. Virtanen is a special prospect if you ask me, and that's why I think we should take him. His combination of speed, strength, size, hands, shot, etc are hard to find. Virtanen is so versatile. At 6'1, 206 pounds, he can already play the muscle game well. To give you a reference to his size, Ryan Kesler is 6'2, 202 pounds. So as you can see about the same size, and the kid is only 17 years old. Who knows how big and strong he will be after some NHL level workouts. And his size still isn't even as impressive as his speed. A combination of that size and speed is very rare. Then add in his shot which is probably top 5 in the draft, with very impressive hands to boot. He already has the physical skills to be a good defender and the kid plays with heart and effort. Benning said he wants a team that "can play the big physical game when it needs too, but can still play the speed skill game like we used too." (Of course, I'm paraphrasing) One of the youngest kids in the draft, and he such a complete toolset already. His only knock is that he doesn't use his teammates that well. I personally don't even see that as a serious problem, as he is a 17 year old kid with that kind of skill set. Yeah, he's got an ego and a I have to do it myself attitude. That will easily change when given good coaching. Teach him the system, and he will pass more. Willie Desjardins will bring the best out of this kid, given the chance. Besides, you need players with a shoot first mentality too. After Daniel stopped scoring, it drove me crazy how many times our top lines would pass pass pass without shooting. Sometimes, you need a guy that will just fire one. You just have to keep it in check. Virtanen is a finisher. You give him the puck and he will put it in the net. We need finishers on this team. Also, when it comes to his smarts and stuff, Benning actually sat down and interviewed the kid and had nothing but god to say. I trust his opinion. Lastly, as you can tell, I'm all for Virtanen. I like really all the top 10 prospects, but Virtanen should not be passed up unless someone big drops to us. His skill set only needs a little refinement and he's still 17 years old. Plus him being a hometown kid, he is not someone that should be passed up. Other than if he turns into a complete bust, which I just don't really see happening with his already natural athletic skill set, worst case scenario, I see him turning into a good third liner about the impact of a Hansen or Booth putting up at least 15 goals a season or so. Probably around 20 but I'll say 15 to be safe. Doesn't seem so bad to me. He's a low risk, high reward prospect. At 6, this will be Benning's guy. But either way, I have faith in JB. He will make the right choice I don't think many people here think that Virtanen isn't a top 10 prospect. The problem is that if he wasn't born in Abbotsford we wouldn't even be considering him at 6th. You can't say that not using your teammates is a minor weakness and easy to get over, I mean look at Kesler, he still hasn't learned to use his teammates. I do believe Virtanen will hit 30 goals at some point in his career, and I do understand people wanting to play it safe with him cause even if he does bust he'll still be a 3rd/4th liner, but you don't draft that type of player at 6th. Like someone has already said, we're not arguing that drafting Virtanen is a bad idea, we're arguing that there are better options in our position. Ehlers is in some very elite company based on his production, I've heard all the arguments against his production, but players that put up numbers like Ehlers with his skill set and work ethic very rarely bust. This article puts out some facts to show that Ehlers floor is higher and his ceiling is also higher. Not saying he won't/can't bust, cause I don't have a crystal ball, but Ehlers will be one of the better players from this draft IMO. I do like Nylander a lot as well, but I see him as a bit more of a risk than Ehlers, but seeing as we need an elite offensive center, I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him. Someone who dominates their own age group like that is always worth the risk. Either way I'll be happy with who we pick as long as it's not Ritchie, I have a bad feeling about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupless44 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I don't think many people here think that Virtanen isn't a top 10 prospect. The problem is that if he wasn't born in Abbotsford we wouldn't even be considering him at 6th. You can't say that not using your teammates is a minor weakness and easy to get over, I mean look at Kesler, he still hasn't learned to use his teammates. I do believe Virtanen will hit 30 goals at some point in his career, and I do understand people wanting to play it safe with him cause even if he does bust he'll still be a 3rd/4th liner, but you don't draft that type of player at 6th. Like someone has already said, we're not arguing that drafting Virtanen is a bad idea, we're arguing that there are better options in our position. Ehlers is in some very elite company based on his production, I've heard all the arguments against his production, but players that put up numbers like Ehlers with his skill set and work ethic very rarely bust. This article puts out some facts to show that Ehlers floor is higher and his ceiling is also higher. Not saying he won't/can't bust, cause I don't have a crystal ball, but Ehlers will be one of the better players from this draft IMO. I do like Nylander a lot as well, but I see him as a bit more of a risk than Ehlers, but seeing as we need an elite offensive center, I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him. Someone who dominates their own age group like that is always worth the risk. Either way I'll be happy with who we pick as long as it's not Ritchie, I have a bad feeling about him. Bob McKenzie is not from BC and he is not a Canuck Fan. What he is is a draft guru who know his stuff. He gets more picks right than any pundit, year after year. McKenzie released his Final Top 30 today. 1 Aaron Ekblad 2 Sam Rinehart 3 Sam Bennett 4 Leon Draisaitl 5 Michael Dal Colle 6 Nick Ritchie 7 Jake Virtanen 8 Haydn Fleury 9 William Nylander 10 Nikolai Ehlers For all the posters who want the Canucks to stay a soft team and draft Ehlers or Nylander, that is your choice, but really time to stop disparaging Ritchie and Virtanen and claiming they are sure busts that don't belong in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupless44 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Picking Virtanen at 6 would be downright retarded (no offense) McKenzie and scouts have him ranked 7. So why retarded? Because you don't want to pick him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 EHLERS WAS listed at 5'11.5 160 on Bobs list, for all those people saying he's 176. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupless44 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 EHLERS WAS listed at 5'11.5 160 on Bobs list, for all those people saying he's 176. When Bob talked about Ehlers he said the concern with several scouts he talked to was that Ehlers is a wisp and may struggle in NHL. No one knows for sure how it ends when drafting 18 year olds but so tired of reading threads on here where pro Ehlers and Nylander fans completely overlook their flaws and deficiencies while acting like know it alls and claiming power forward prospects like Ritchie and Nylander are automatic busts and won't go anywhere near the top 10. Wonder what the excuse will be now that the most credible pre draft ranking has them both ahead of Ehlers and Nylander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 When Bob talked about Ehlers he said the concern with several scouts he talked to was that Ehlers is a wisp and may struggle in NHL. No one knows for sure how it ends when drafting 18 year olds but so tired of reading threads on here where pro Ehlers and Nylander fans completely overlook their flaws and deficiencies while acting like know it alls and claiming power forward prospects like Ritchie and Nylander are automatic busts and won't go anywhere near the top 10. Wonder what the excuse will be now that the most credible pre draft ranking has them both ahead of Ehlers and Nylander. There will be some silence for awhile, then they'll start on about mythical elite skill and how they 'could grow' and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wshdrvvn Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 When Bob talked about Ehlers he said the concern with several scouts he talked to was that Ehlers is a wisp and may struggle in NHL. No one knows for sure how it ends when drafting 18 year olds but so tired of reading threads on here where pro Ehlers and Nylander fans completely overlook their flaws and deficiencies while acting like know it alls and claiming power forward prospects like Ritchie and Nylander are automatic busts and won't go anywhere near the top 10. Wonder what the excuse will be now that the most credible pre draft ranking has them both ahead of Ehlers and Nylander. the ritchie/virtanen crowd does the same thing; even more so from what i've read. you're being quite ironic right now. i bet all 4 of ritchie/nylander/virtanen/ehlers go in the top 10. the only crowd that is right is the group that realizes any 1 of those guys would be a solid addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wshdrvvn Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 There will be some silence for awhile, then they'll start on about mythical elite skill and how they 'could grow' and whatnot. also would like to point out the hypocrisy of a guy named "BanTSN" attempting to use TSN's rankings to prove his opinion is superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupless44 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 the ritchie/virtanen crowd does the same thing; even more so from what i've read. you're being quite ironic right now. i bet all 4 of ritchie/nylander/virtanen/ehlers go in the top 10. the only crowd that is right is the group that realizes any 1 of those guys would be a solid addition.How can you say this with certainty? By the time Ehlers reaches his prime (24-26), all of LA's big fat players will be old farts. Who knows what the kings will look like in 6 years. Probably pretty good with a few rings on their fingers as they sit back and reflect how easy it was to push the Canucks around for so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kassquatch Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ekblad Reinhart Draisaitl Bennett MDC Ehlers Nylander Virtanen Ritchie Fleury I had a dream a few days ago that we drafted Ehlers, so I'm going with him. LOL. I'll gladly stick to the more traditional use of my brain or "gut feeling" No disrespect though, I heard thats how all the successful GM's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VancouverCanucks30 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 EHLERS WAS listed at 5'11.5 160 on Bobs list, for all those people saying he's 176. Only the clubs have the official numbers, Bob doesnt have acces to the combine heigh and weight. Its been mentioned a few times. Bob is just using the same numbers thats been used all season long, 162, you can look back at the previus data stated by sources such as central scouting etc. Ehlers is now listed at 176 nhls draft page, so they might be in the know since they've changed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tambellini's Wrist Shot Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Total players selected in the first round in the last 10 years: QMJHL - 31 WHL - 68 OHL - 79 That's an absolutely meaningless statistic. If there's a player that scores over 100 points available, you should pick him no matter what league he comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'm an Ehlers supporter, but totally admit that his size is a concern. To paraphrase an anonymous scout at the combine, he'd have to put on 20 pounds to be considered small. But that was based on the wieght of 162 lbs. reported at the beginning of last season. If he really is 176 now, that changes things significantly. In 2-3 years, 185-190 is not at all out of reach. In his interviews, he put it right out front that the main thing he needs to do over the summer is bulk up. With his speed and ellusiveness, If he's that close to 180 at age 17, then size is nothing like the concern it is if he's 162. So for me, it depends on what his real weight is atm, that is, which of the conflicting reports is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If we somehow draft Ehlers his ass better be on a diet plan the next day. This kid needs to gain 15-25 pounds lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/06/02/2014-nhl-combine-heights-weights/ states specifically that these measurements are from the combine, and ehlers is at 5'11" 162 lbs. iss has him at the same: http://www.isshockey.com heres another one listing combine results: http://www.chatsports.com/nhl/a/NHL-Combine-2014-Full-Results-Measurements-Highlights-and-Top-Prospects-2-9908021 and another: http://allhabs.net/official-release-hockeyprospect-com-final-2014-nhl-draft-rankings-top-30/ central scouting too: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=712854 i haven't seen a single source say 176 lbs. i guess tsn and the the people at the draft didn't get the 176 lbs memo either since they had him listed 5'11.5" 160 lbs during the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 they took the rocks out of his pockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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