Our Defense SUCKS

[nuck nit]

And Keith has a cup to show for it...which brings up another point, if the Canucks had won in 2011, what do you surmise Hamhuis would be getting now? The Sedins?

Hamhuis is under contract.

The Sedins were the cornerstone bargain of Gillis' success.

All were underpaid in 2011.

[Dekey Pete]

I never mentioned "sucked". Our defense doesn't suck. They are mediocre is what I said. Oilers on the other hand...

I'm looking at it from the big picture - basically, an owners point of view and value you get for your money.

That said, we are paying $3 million less per year (Cap) compared to the Hawks and Blues for our defense.

As a whole, yes, I completely agree with you. But you singled out Hamhuis, he is far from the problem.

[Heretic]

Hamhuis is under contract.

The Sedins were the cornerstone bargain of Gillis' success.

All were underpaid in 2011.

Why? We lost the cup. So why should they get raises?

They get paid to perform. When I don't perform well, I don't get a bonus nor a raise.

Will Daniel ever crack 100 points in a season again?

Yes, I know this is "hockey" and not the real world, but just think what you're saying.

"Let's give guys more money for doing less."

If the Sedins were paid a million less each, that's $2 million the Canucks have in cap that could go towards a top defenseman.

Big picture.

[Dekey Pete]

Why? We lost the cup. So why should they get raises?

They get paid to perform. When I don't perform well, I don't get a bonus nor a raise.

Will Daniel ever crack 100 points in a season again?

Yes, I know this is "hockey" and not the real world, but just think what you're saying.

"Let's give guys more money for doing less."

If the Sedins were paid a million less each, that's $2 million the Canucks have in cap that could go towards a top defenseman.

Big picture.

LOL Not perform well? They got to the Stanley Cup Final! I hope you aren't anyone's boss.

Big picture is that you punish/fail to reward your employees for coming within one game of the biggest accomplishment in their field of work and no one will want to work for you. I guess that means that the rest of the NHL players outside of the winning team don't deserve raises too? I'm sure the NHLPA will love that!

[Heretic]

LOL Not perform well? They got to the Stanley Cup Final! I hope you aren't anyone's boss.

Big picture is that you punish/fail to reward your employees for coming within one game of the biggest accomplishment in their field of work and no one will want to work for you. I guess that means that the rest of the NHL players outside of the winning team don't deserve raises too? I'm sure the NHLPA will love that!

Yes, and since then?

I rest my case.

[Borvat]

Listen I love Bieksa but he really isnt top four on a good team. He's a number five who can fill in top four for a time. We have one pair of top four. Edler and Tanev. Hammer needs a partner. Bieksa and whoever can round out the bottom pair.

Hammer may be a -5 but who does he have to play with while he plays top pairing minutes against the other teams best forwards. Give him a legit partner and then judge him.

[Dekey Pete]

Yes, and since then?

I rest my case.

We aren't talking about since then, you said they didn't deserve raises because they "lost the cup". Can't tell if you are intentionally trolling or just not very good at this?

"Why? We lost the cup. So why should they get raises?"

[Heretic]

We aren't talking about since then, you said they didn't deserve raises because they "lost the cup". Can't tell if you are intentionally trolling or just not very good at this?

"Why? We lost the cup. So why should they get raises?"

That was in reference to "all were under paid in 2011".

I am talking since then. Why did the Sedins deserve a raise to $7 mil per year when they are now hitting their down curve of their careers?

No, I'm not trolling - just trying to get some people to think and not buy into the hype.

I've been saying for years that this should be a pay for performance system - no different than some other entertainment - say horse racing or wrestling, or even movies - some actors get a salary and then get a percentage of the take...

[nuck nit]

Why? We lost the cup. So why should they get raises?

They took less cash than they were due in their prior contracts.

Burr also took much less and Gillis paid all three to make up for their prior sacrifices.

[Baggins]

but if we want to be a true contender in this league, we need a true #1 PMD that could put up 50 points and play defence at the same time.

1 - I thought the goal this year was to make the playoffs, not be a contender.

2 - Is Santa bringing this 50 pt stud d-man? Or maybe the stud d-man fairy is dropping one off? Last I looked they don't grow on trees.

[Baggins]

And Keith has a cup to show for it...which brings up another point, if the Canucks had won in 2011, what do you surmise Hamhuis would be getting now? The Sedins?

Hamhuis would still be getting the same as he's still under the same contract. The Sedins have never been greedy.

[Baggins]

That was in reference to "all were under paid in 2011".

I am talking since then. Why did the Sedins deserve a raise to $7 mil per year when they are now hitting their down curve of their careers?

No, I'm not trolling - just trying to get some people to think and not buy into the hype.

I've been saying for years that this should be a pay for performance system - no different than some other entertainment - say horse racing or wrestling, or even movies - some actors get a salary and then get a percentage of the take...

I don't think you have a clue when it comes to market values. Take a look at what Toews and Kane will be making starting next year.

[sxqhfeh]

I know some of you will blame Miller and Lack for the amount of goals they're letting in, but how are they supposed to help us win when we give up 3 on 1s every minute? Our lists of defensemen from best to worst as of now are;

1. ?

2. Edler

3. Tanev

4. Hamhuis

5. Bieksa

6. ?

7. Sbisa

8. Stanton

9. Weber

10. Corrado

As you all know, our defence has always been fragile when it comes to injuries, and with Hammer out for a while, we need another top 4 if not top 2 defensemen RIGHT NOW. I know you guys will scream at me for listing Sbisa as a 7th defensemen, but if we want to be a true contender in this league, we need a true #1 PMD that could put up 50 points and play defence at the same time. I really want Doughty but there's obviously no way LA is giving him up when hes just entering his prime. IMO, we also need a big #6 reliable stay at home guy to get paired with Bieksa because he's looked god awful this year. Stanton might be a future top 4 defensemen but he doesn't look like it right now. Weber doesn't even belong in this league let alone our top 6. Corrado is our future answer on defence but he's just not ready for the role yet. It's obviously really hard to attain these players because nobody wants to give up any of our offensive depth, but something needs to change on defence if we really want to have one last push for the cup.

have to trade Bieksa to get No1 D and No5 D, no other chioce

[Brick Tamland]

blueberry is nast. Lemon meringue pls.

Chocolate cream

[messier's_elbow]

That was in reference to "all were under paid in 2011".

I am talking since then. Why did the Sedins deserve a raise to $7 mil per year when they are now hitting their down curve of their careers?

No, I'm not trolling - just trying to get some people to think and not buy into the hype.

I've been saying for years that this should be a pay for performance system - no different than some other entertainment - say horse racing or wrestling, or even movies - some actors get a salary and then get a percentage of the take...

If we let the Sedins walk after their last contracts we would have been the oilers. The sedins at 7 million a year is maybe a half million per year overpayment but thats the way it works. They have never been overpayed. Plus they have donated millions to charities. It would be nice if they could win a cup before its all said and done.

[Junkyard Dog]

Sedins were signed based off there production then. MG wasn't think about the future he was thinking about what they accomplished then.

Back to back art ross trophys + a hart and ted lindsey.

Looking at what some players are getting now I not choked about it at all.

[Twilight Sparkle]

Sedins were signed based off there production then. MG wasn't think about the future he was thinking about what they accomplished then.

Back to back art ross trophys + a hart and ted lindsey.

Looking at what some players are getting now I not choked about it at all.

eff that noise. it'll always be the lester b. pearson

[JeremyCuddles]

So you're saying, if you were a GM, you take Hamhuis over Keith?

Put Keith on our team and Hammer on Chicago and you see both numbers change. Chicago is stacked to the teeth, last year our bottom 6 is a top 6 in the AHL at best. Not to mention Hammer doesn't play our top PP, and his job is to cover for Bieksa. While Seabrook is doing that for Keith.

[Heretic]

I don't think you have a clue when it comes to market values. Take a look at what Toews and Kane will be making starting next year.

Well, I have a pretty good idea and my tune has changed, I'm not an expert, but as I pointed out here they are right in the middle of those around them with the same cap/performance:

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/365856-opinion-free-pass-for-the-sedins/?p=12494158

[wallstreetamigo]

Put Keith on our team and Hammer on Chicago and you see both numbers change. Chicago is stacked to the teeth, last year our bottom 6 is a top 6 in the AHL at best. Not to mention Hammer doesn't play our top PP, and his job is to cover for Bieksa. While Seabrook is doing that for Keith.

You are seriously underrating Keith and overrating Hamhuis. Keith is as good as he is offensively because of his ability to move the puck and his skill on the PP. Having great players around him certainly doesn't hurt but Hamhuis is a step below Keith for sure and would not walk in and fill his shoes. I highly doubt if they switched teams that Hamhuis would be used any differently than he is in Vancouver in terms of being on the PP. Because he is not very offensively talented.

I get that Keith is a class A d-bag and I hate him as mmuch as any other Canucks fan. But give the man his due. He is very offensively talented.