TheShaunz Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If there is one thing that has been missing since 2011 is the accountability factor. Almost every post game interview (whether we won or lost) the players would be saying we can be better. They were always striving for perfection. I dont think I've heard a single player say that 'we can still play better' after a win. Or at least a win we deserved. I want my team to ALWAYS want to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Just a lot of knee jerk emotional reactions. The team peaked in 2011 and we came bloody close to winning it all. 4 years later is a long time in sport and we are now an older team in transition and will be for some time to come. Benning never mentioned anything about winning the cup with this group. What he did promise is to start looking to the future and I think the consensus is he's doing that. He's also smart enough to know that you don't do an Edmonton oilers and gut a team. You need old guys to show the young guys how to do it. Get used to this middle of the road existence because that is where we are in the life line of this current club. If this team can win tomorrow then its series back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Isn't Gaudreau 24? Some guys just don't fit in sometimes. Change of scenery seems to be doing for Baertschi so far. 21. And all I'm saying is... don't jump to conclusions. I expect you'll be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If there is one thing that has been missing since 2011 is the accountability factor. Almost every post game interview (whether we won or lost) the players would be saying we can be better. They were always striving for perfection. I dont think I've heard a single player say that 'we can still play better' after a win. Or at least a win we deserved. I want my team to ALWAYS want to be better. You're right, they haven't. I've heard a lot of Vancouver players saying "I thought we were the better team, Calgary just <insert some excuse here>." Not much reason to change your game if you were the better team but lost due to something beyond your control (and presumably not repeatable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShaunz Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 You're right, they haven't. I've heard a lot of Vancouver players saying "I thought we were the better team, Calgary just <insert some excuse here>." Not much reason to change your game if you were the better team but lost due to something beyond your control (and presumably not repeatable) Very true. Thanks for adding that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Which highly ranked draft picks? Calgary got 4th overall last year, but I believe the next highest in Calgary history is something like 10th or 11th? Was he our pick or one we traded for? Are you a Flames fan? Monahan was your pick. You acquired picks that became Poirier and Klimchuk. You've had lots of top 10 picks in your history. Phaneuf, Eric Nystrom, Brent Krahn, Rico Fata, Daniel Tkaczuk, Cory Stillman, Jamie O'Brien. It just happens that virtually all of them were complete busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 21. And all I'm saying is... don't jump to conclusions. I expect you'll be disappointed. Ok. You sound like you really know what you're talking about. We should probably mark your words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekey Pete Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 you say the depth guys are irrelevant (#1) then you go to say that we had better depth in 2011 (#5)? Also Sedins not getting enough points is laughable. Our problem is and always has been lines 2 and below... we need secondary scoring in the playoffs and we're just not getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 He has some offensive talent but he's certainly no Gaudreau and he will cost you far more than he produces. I'm actually hoping you do play him so that we can show him exactly why he never made the team despite many, many chances. He's simply not as good as he thinks he is. Thanks for the 2nd round pick, btw! Before you go chirping about what a solid, two way, hard working player you have in Gaudreau lol, you might take the time to have a look at who is actually winning this series (thus far) for the Flames. It sure as hell is not Johny John Johny ad infinitum Gaudreau - nor your other precious, Monahan. Gaudreau is getting killed. http://www.nhl.com/stats/advancedstats?season=20142015&gameType=3&team=CGY&position=S&country=&status=&viewName=advancedStatsSkaterShooting&sort=shotAttempts&ord=&gp=1 Gaudreau, Monahan and Hudler are a combined -59 corsi. That while getting a vast majority of offensive zone starts. Combined for 33 offensive zone starts and 2 defensive zone starts in game 3, and still all three of them were outshot when on the ice. They're a real trio of two way studs, right. They've been by far the Flames worst line in this series. The Sedins have absolutely owned them - count your blessings for short term shooting percentages. http://www.nhl.com/stats/advancedstats?season=20142015&gameType=3&team=&position=S&country=&status=&viewName=advancedStatsSkaterShooting&sort=shotAttempts&ord=&gp=1 Jones, Stajan, Ferland are your best line - by a longshot. If you want to spout the praises of your players, spare us the Johnny-boy tire pumping, and attempts to foretell Baertschi's career here. You're welcome for the 2nd round pick. Just be thankful it wasn't a 1st or even a high 1st - ironically, you guys have a real history of fracking those up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'm glad you brought up their Corsi numbers. I'll just leave this here for you... http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2014/12/04/analytics_suggest_smoke_mirrors_behind_calgary_flames_hot_start.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 1) The Sedins are not able to elevate their game in the playoffs 3) There has been a serious nosedive in accountability and leadership over the years 4) We as Fans give very little to no edge to our troops when they're down. Including "Home Ice Advantage". /rant. 1) http://www.nhl.com/stats/advancedstats?season=20142015&gameType=3&team=&position=S&country=&status=&viewName=advancedStatsSkaterShooting&sort=shotAttempts&ord=&gp=1 3) nice story. 4) highly ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 188SHARES Share on Facebook (171) Share on Twitter (17) + No one saw this coming. Tuesday was as much of a roller-coaster ride for Canucks fans as the three days surrounding last season’s Heritage Classic. That’s saying something considering in that three-day span Roberto Luongo was benched, Eddie Lack was lit up, Daniel Sedin was injured and Luongo was traded. The amazing thing is how the day started off so normally. Vancouver was down 2-1 in the series against Calgary and fans still truly believed they were going to win Game 4 and win the series in six. But by nightfall so much had happened it felt like a week has passed, not one day. Before I go on, the Canucks lost Game 4 by a score of 3-1, and are now down in the series 3-1. Which is as fitting as it is crappy to read. 1. A normal start to the day Back to the day starting as expected – it began with a debate about the Sedins’ ice time. Typical. Normal. Then during Tuesday morning’s skate Alex Burrows left the ice leaving Canucks fans perplexed. Trevor Linden appeared on the radio with Sekeres and Price and quickly calmed everyone down, saying it was something minor, maybe Burrows was having a little fun with the media. He said Sven Baertschi (who was called up, leading to more speculation about injuries) would likely not play, and Burr probably would. In retrospect we should probably have remembered how Linden had no problem convincing CTV he wouldn’t be taking over the Canucks last year despite the opposite being true – but we didn’t. Linden even managed to get everyone including Matt and Blake talking about normal things like the Sedins’ ice time again by mentioning he’d had a talk with Willie Desjardins about the issue. 2. Burrows goes to the hospital The calmness didn’t last long. We were hit over the head with this. In a split second Canucks fans were worried more about Burrows the human than Burrows the player. A lot of speculation followed. Canucks PR released a statement saying it wasn’t life threatening and the ambulance and hospital visit were precautionary. Didn’t stop a bunch of idiot Flames fans from showing their moronic side, though. I won’t give them any more space in this post, though. Let’s be honest, if Michael Ferland went to the hospital, there’d be a bunch of idiotic Canucks fans saying crappy things about him too, and it’s quite simply because idiots are everywhere. Rioters in Vancouver, morons who don’t want Burrows to be treated in Calgary – they’ll all end up in the same place in life, no worries there. Somehow a reporter in Quebec got the scoop first (and he somehow always manages to do this). And right before the game, we heard this. Those concerned about Burrows’ health could breathe again. 3. Watching the sh** hit the fan When fans heard Burrows was headed to hospital, their on-ice fears about the injury were tempered by the idea that Baertschi would fit in the top-6 and they wouldn’t miss a beat. Logic dictated Radim Vrbata would fill in for Burrows alongside the Sedins while Baertschi would jump in with Bonino and Higgins. The win was still a foregone conclusion. Then this happenened during the pregame skate. Brandon McMillan with the Sedins; no Baertschi; Linden Vey in for Brad Richardson. No chance that was happening. Couldn’t be. Logic held out hope: Desjardins was being coy and cunning – throwing Bob Hartley off his scent before throwing down the gauntlet and hammering the truculent, gutsy Flames with so much skill they wouldn’t know what to do. Skill was everyone’s solution for defeating the relentless Flames’ forecheck, after all. But “coy” was a myth. Why did Willie do it? In retrospect this is too logical an explanation for anything Desjardins does. Need proof? Vrbata didn’t start the game with the Sedins. Hansen did. Vrbata kicked things off with the same linemates (anchors) as last game – Bonino and Higgins – neither of whom have been pulling their weight in this series. 4. Outcoached leads to outplayed Just like that, the game was over before it began. Desjardins had the horses – prior to Game 4, the Sedins had been great and needed a finisher, Horvat and Hansen were all world, and Dorsett was working his tail off. Yet, he failed to use them while hiding the ones who’ve become liabilities – Nick Bonino, Luca Sbisa, Kevin Bieksa and others. It really is that simple – play the guys who are going, limit the ice time of those who aren’t. It’s not rocket science and 90 percent of the fans coaching from their couches would’ve done better. Or go with this guy (Bonino blocking a pass): To the fans we go: Let’s give Willie a chance to explain, though. Ben Kuzma asked him to walk through his coaching decisions after the game. “I don’t think there’s a lot to walk through. Those are the guys we felt would be the best tonight, and that’s who we went with.” Did it have anything to do with playing the types guys who brought you here? “No, we had to go with what we think’s our best lineup at this time. All the guys worked too hard all year not to go with who we felt would help us most tonight.” And how do you need to play Game 5 to win it? “We just have to take out the second period. We take out the second period, you know, we weren’t bad.” That would be a great plan if the score wasn’t 3-1 Flames with or without the second period… So there was no loyalty involved and Desjardins truly believed he was putting the team in the best position to win. With McMillan in and Baertschi out. With Vrbata’s potency wasted alongside ineffective Bonino and Higgins. With Horvat’s potency decreased because Hansen was taken away. And with Hansen negated because he’s never been a great fit with the Sedins. If you’re questioning Desjardins mental state and IQ level, you’re not alone. 5. Need a laugh – part 1 At this point, Sbieksa shouldn’t even be a thing. Where’s Frankie Corrado? Where’s Ryan Stanton? Both would move the puck better. Neither would panic half as much. But Sbieksa is a thing. And this is what it looks like. Even scarier than this picture – the fact Willie has it hung on his wall in his man cave. 6. Need a laugh – part 2 As far as Desjardins had fallen in fans’ esteem with his first round decisions, he still hadn’t been dealt the worst insult of all. But after Tuesday night, and after saying the Canucks played well in the first and third periods, this comparison was deserved. So, is there any optimism going into Thursday’s game? Absolutely, but President Linden has to have a long talk with his coach and write step-by- step instructions on that clipboard of his. Step 1: Vrbata with the twins, and roll them out tons. Step 2: Hansen back with Horvat, and make them line 2. Step 3: Matthias and Dorsett spotting in as line three. Step 4: It’s the playoffs so don’t even bother with line four. Step 5: On D – scratch Bieksa and Sbisa, play Corrado and Stanton. Simple changes, really, though they might be too much for Willie to grasp. The other option is for Miller to shut the door and win the game and series himself. It’s all so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'm glad you brought up their Corsi numbers. I'll just leave this here for you... http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2014/12/04/analytics_suggest_smoke_mirrors_behind_calgary_flames_hot_start.html I'm glad you brought up their drafting history. And like I said, count your short term blessings. I can think of another team that thought corsi was smoke and mirrors. The Leafs made the playoffs with similar weak possession numbers and also started thinking they were the bees knees. Really, the exceedingly simple answer to people who dismiss underlying numbers out of hand as if there's no value there is that they may want to look at the most dominant teams in the NHL and see the correlation. In your case, you might also ask yourself if it's mere coincidence that Giordano is is the Flames strongest puck possession player.- by a significant margin. I like Calgary's chances of bucking bad odds better than the Leafs' - they're a better coached, harder working and better conditioned team than the Leafs, otherwise, there are no shortage of similarities. Underlying numbers have some value within limit and in context - but really, distilled, what they are in a nutshell are odds. You can beat odds, certainly in the short run, but they tend to have the last say in the long run - Calgary will need to improve as a puck possession team to hope to continue to be successful. Having a pair of your best puck moving defensemen blocking a great deal of shots can also catch up with you. The forwards carrying your team in the playoffs are not the one dimensional Johny Gaudreau types (the irony of your criticisms of Baertschi relative to him) - it's the Stajan line. We'll have to keep a comparative eye on Baertschi vs your 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orka Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 as true as all your points are, you have to admit that Willie did make a mistake with the lineup. I'm not saying we would have won but I believe our chances would have been stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 21. And all I'm saying is... don't jump to conclusions. I expect you'll be disappointed. Green and Johnston who both know him well have nothing but praise for him and his work ethic. As for entitlement, Green was adamant that it's not part of his character. It's particularly interesting to hear Linden say that they wanted to bring Sven into an environment where he can enjoy the game again. Benning, Weisbrod and Green all said similar things. Heck even Craig Button said that Hartley prefers some players over others and that it was good that Calgary recognised that Sven would never succeed under their current regime (he named Burke and Hartley). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Sedins have actually played well... could use a bit more finish but they've been good on possession, generated shots and shut down the Monahan line at home when they were matched up. When the team struggles simply asking your best players to be better (when they've pulled their weight) is feeble-minded reasoning. Same kind of people who expect the goalie to pitch a shutout every night. Look at the Flames... Aside from Ferland's hit parade (which you rarely see out of a top line player) they're getting a balanced attack. We aren't. The biggest weakness is on our D from what I can see... Wilting under the forecheck and that's buggering up the whole process at either end of the rink. Edler and Tanev are good but lack the aggression to really clear the front of the net.... A job that actually calls for physicality. The rest are just bad. We also miss Kassian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soshified Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 21. And all I'm saying is... don't jump to conclusions. I expect you'll be disappointed. How ironic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 That was actually a genuine question and not a jab.. If you think those are socks that Canucks fans waive around, then I can't help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Green and Johnston who both know him well have nothing but praise for him and his work ethic. As for entitlement, Green was adamant that it's not part of his character. It's particularly interesting to hear Linden say that they wanted to bring Sven into an environment where he can enjoy the game again. Benning, Weisbrod and Green all said similar things. Heck even Craig Button said that Hartley prefers some players over others and that it was good that Calgary recognised that Sven would never succeed under their current regime (he named Burke and Hartley). Sven's issues predated Burke and Hartley. But, like you said, time will tell. It is very possible that he just didn't fit into Calgary's culture. He does have skill, there's no denying that. The question mark is his work ethic and willingness to fight for a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If you think those are socks that Canucks fans waive around, then I can't help you. Well, you could always let me know what they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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