Sedins playing hurt

[wallstreetamigo]

Hmnnnnnnnnnnnnnn:

An apology and a personal attack....

Anyways...I'm merely pointing out how you are being perceived.

We are rebuilding - somehow we made the playoffs this year - wasn't expected - at least not by me.

That's the problem with the Canucks the past 10 years - they have never sucked badly enough like how the Oilers have, the Kings, The Hawks, The Flames - and been able to get those top 10 draft picks...(Yes, we got Bo - but that was via a trade).

That is the thing with perception. It is in the eye of the beholder and is really uncontrollable by me as to how you perceive me. That's probably why I don't care. Just like you probably don't care what I think of you.

Either way it is irrelevant. This forum exists for people to express opinions. Just because you don't agree with mine doesn't give you the right to suggest I don't have the right to express it.

Learn to agree to disagree. You will be happier.

[Canuck Surfer]

Bieksa is under 200 pounds too as far as I know. How is the extra couple of pounds making a difference?

If you want meat any 6'4 220 pound defensive dman out there available for a million per season can replace what Bieksa brings and probably be better defensively.

Lame excuse to hang onto Bieksa imo.

The problem is, very few $1 million dollar 6'3'' defensive defenseman can skate and handle the puck. Which our system dictates. And if they could, they would not be a avail for a mill. There is a reason the Hall Gills of the world are disappearing, and the Jared Tinordi's have not made it yet. The league is too fast.

Kev is 198 lbs, but among the most fit, strongest and best athletes. He battles well above his weight. And I am not speaking about scrapping. Hockey is increasingly an athletic sport. A guy who can keep up with the Giroux's and push with the Getzlafs is more valuable than u give credo to.

I understand the disdain for his mistakes, the Kev mindset where he appears either too casual. Or gets distracted and drawn into all the physical wars instead of competing at hockey.

I think the whole team was sulked in last year, the real reason for our demise. And possibly against the Flames this series. Its not like critique is off base. Its just blown out of proportion because guys are mad we lost and value is also forgotten.

But lets get solutions rather than just slag guys.

[wallstreetamigo]

Ummmmnnnn....when did Miller struggle? Stats don't lie....see post 77: http://forum.canucks.com/topic/369246-sedins-playing-hurt/?p=12760931

Lack won 1 games against 3 losses and a 3.03 GAA...

But yes, we are lucky to have him...I see him playing about the same number of games next year as he did this one.

I see him as the number 1 the year after that.

Miller easily had the worst game of this series by either of them and should have been pulled after the second or third goal. It was obvious he was struggling with his rebound control and positioning a lot. That's not his fault as he admitted he was not 100%. That falls on Desjardins. Unfortunately Miller will in typical Vancouver fashion get a lions share of the blame.

[THERETOOL]

Miller easily had the worst game of this series by either of them and should have been pulled after the second or third goal. It was obvious he was struggling with his rebound control and positioning a lot. That's not his fault as he admitted he was not 100%. That falls on Desjardins. Unfortunately Miller will in typical Vancouver fashion get a lions share of the blame.

agreed

[Heretic]

That is the thing with perception. It is in the eye of the beholder and is really uncontrollable by me as to how you perceive me. That's probably why I don't care. Just like you probably don't care what I think of you.

Either way it is irrelevant. This forum exists for people to express opinions. Just because you don't agree with mine doesn't give you the right to suggest I don't have the right to express it.

Learn to agree to disagree. You will be happier.

Ditto, though I'm not saying you don't have the right to express your opinion - I'm just challenging it.

But I do care, else I wouldn't be trying to have a conversation with you.

[wallstreetamigo]

The problem is, very few $1 million dollar 6'3'' defensive defenseman can skate and handle the puck. Which our system dictates. And if they could, they would not be a avail for a mill. There is a reason the Hall Gills of the world are disappearing, and the Jared Tinordi's have not made it yet. The league is too fast.

Kev is 198 lbs, but among the most fit, strongest and best athletes. He battles well above his weight. And I am not speaking about scrapping. Hockey is increasingly an athletic sport. A guy who can keep up with the Giroux's and push with the Getzlafs is more valuable than u give credo to.

I understand the disdain for his mistakes, the Kev mindset where he appears either too casual. Or gets distracted and drawn into all the physical wars instead of competing at hockey.

I think the whole team was sulked in last year, the real reason for our demise. And possibly against the Flames this series. Its not like critique is off base. Its just blown out of proportion because guys are mad we lost and value is also forgotten.

But lets get solutions rather than just slag guys.

Did you watch how slow Bieksa was this season and even last? The playoffs had him getting walked around like a pylon. Same with most of our D.

If Bieksa is the solution to skating and moving the puck for this team what is he waiting for to actually play that way? Here is a hint. He is just as slow and ineffective as a Hal gill minus the ability to at least clear a crease.

[THERETOOL]

if bieksas legs were as great as his heart he'd be ok .. I'm afraid he is done

[wallstreetamigo]

Ditto, though I'm not saying you don't have the right to express your opinion - I'm just challenging it.

But I do care, else I wouldn't be trying to have a conversation with you.

Challenging my opinion is fine. I enjoy the discussions to be honest. Saying it means I should stop being a fan of the team is a rel pet peeve of mine.

[TOMapleLaughs]

if bieksas legs were as great as his heart he'd be ok .. I'm afraid he is done

Hmmm. I remember thinking the same thing about 2-time cup champ Willie Mitchell. And he just suffered a massive concussion. I was wrong.

[Heretic]

Miller easily had the worst game of this series by either of them and should have been pulled after the second or third goal. It was obvious he was struggling with his rebound control and positioning a lot. That's not his fault as he admitted he was not 100%. That falls on Desjardins. Unfortunately Miller will in typical Vancouver fashion get a lions share of the blame.

Wait a moment - are you blaming Miller for the last loss and not Bieksa nor the rest of the defense?

What about the 3 games that Lack lost - not his fault at all?

Commentators and others thought Miller was playing very well and supported to move to him starting after the Canucks lost game 4 and were down 3-1.

[Heretic]

Challenging my opinion is fine. I enjoy the discussions to be honest. Saying it means I should stop being a fan of the team is a rel pet peeve of mine.

Well, as another person here just said, don't slag our players.

Criticize and propose better solutions - sure.

Apologies for telling you to cheer for the Leafs - that was a low blow I admit.

[Canuck Surfer]

I don't mind being compared to leafs fans because at least they will accept a rebuild of their team unlike the fair weather Van fans who need the playoffs or they stop going.

If fans would support a rebuild with enthusiasm and by continuing to go to games the aquilinis would have much less reason to put business over on ice product.

If I lived in Vancouver I would be a season ticket holder no matter what. That doesn't mean I would be happy clinging to the past every year until the Sedins are gone though. None of us should be.

Leaf fans have never accepted rebuilding. And their management have made horrible mistakes trying to live up to the pressure of expectations. See contracts to Clarkson, Phaneuf, Kessell...

Flushing and how to manage after having made such mistakes is a question for another day.

Nor is there a reason true hockey and sport fans should support a rebuild when a team is competitive.

Sport, is after all c o m p e t i t i o n.

Doing nothing, sulking and waiting to accumulate better players because the system rewards losers goes against the real nature of sport. If you call yourself a fan with this mindset, lets just say we disagree. I would trade a rental at the deadline if we were out. But I will not ever support tanking. Compete your hardest (which Bieksa does in his own way), let the cards fall where they may, and cheer the competition...

I don't support whining that the Twins have not brought us a cup, get rid of them either. They are the essence of guys who compete. They deserve our support, cup or not, as long as they compete as they do.

And back to the point. The time to look past Bieksa is when we have a proper plan to replace him. Not whine that he sulks. Especially when we don't have better.

[wallstreetamigo]

Wait a moment - are you blaming Miller for the last loss and not Bieksa nor the rest of the defense?

What about the 3 games that Lack lost - not his fault at all?

Commentators and others thought Miller was playing very well and supported to move to him starting after the Canucks lost game 4 and were down 3-1.

Nope I am blaming pretty much the whole team and the coach.

Miller looked terrible in game 6. Even at 3-0 he did not look comfortable at all.

As I said in another thread it is on Desjardins not to pull him. Miller like Luongo before him will get far too much of the blame when in reality a game where he looked a bit shaky turned into a blowout as the team hung him out to dry.

[Heretic]

Nope I am blaming pretty much the whole team and the coach.

Miller looked terrible in game 6. Even at 3-0 he did not look comfortable at all.

As I said in another thread it is on Desjardins not to pull him. Miller like Luongo before him will get far too much of the blame when in reality a game where he looked a bit shaky turned into a blowout as the team hung him out to dry.

I disagree, you're the first I've heard blaming Miller at all.

Hiller, on the other hand, according to experts, looked awkward the whole series, when the Canucks finally broke him down, the Flames played Rambo.

Hindsight is 20/20 - but I wonder if Miller had started, and if we were down 3-1 like we were with Lack, and lack came in relief - if we would have won?

Right now, Lack seems a lot better coming in with no pressure.

I think that pressure got to him in games 3 and 4.

That said, I think he will be much better from that experience.

[wallstreetamigo]

Leaf fans have never accepted rebuilding. And their management have made horrible mistakes trying to live up to the pressure of expectations. See contracts to Clarkson, Phaneuf, Kessell...

Flushing and how to manage after having made such mistakes is a question for another day.

Nor is there a reason true hockey and sport fans should support a rebuild when a team is competitive.

Sport, is after all c o m p e t i t i o n.

Doing nothing, sulking and waiting to accumulate better players because the system rewards losers goes against the real nature of sport. If you call yourself a fan with this mindset, lets just say we disagree. I would trade a rental at the deadline if we were out. But I will not ever support tanking. Compete your hardest (which Bieksa does in his own way), let the cards fall where they may, and cheer the competition...

I don't support whining that the Twins have not brought us a cup, get rid of them either. They are the essence of guys who compete. They deserve our support, cup or not, as long as they compete as they do.

And back to the point. The time to look past Bieksa is when we have a proper plan to replace him. Not whine that he sulks. Especially when we don't have better.

Leafs fans have and always will show up no matter what direction the team takes. Ownership and management sort of like in Van are the ones who push for instant gratification. The difference is in Van people will stop paying.

There is a difference between rebuilding and tanking. I have never said they should tank at all. Infact I have been very vocal in my disdain for teams like Edm and Buf and their management that openly does.

We don't need a plan to replace Bieksa. We just need a body that can play better than he does which becomes easier each passing year. He is no longer such an important piece as to be irreplaceable.

The problem is that many and I suspect you are included based on these comments fear that any change will automatically be a bad change. The devil you know is better than the one you don't know so to speak. Unfortunately that is a risk that all the best teams take eventually. And the Canucks don't.

Core players should not be anything but unique players who add something to your lineup that cannot easily be replaced or developed.

The Sedins as one exams are irreplaceable at this point. There is no one here or that can be reasonably acquired at cheap enough cost to cast them aside. They are core players. You could argue the same for Burrows despite declining skills. You get the point.

My point is that Bieksa does not bring anything that would make him considered an irreplaceable part of the core moving forward. Younger cheaper contract ayers can do what he does and possibly more. His leadership or fighting are often brought up but there are lots of guys around who will fight. And his leadership has not really gotten us anywhere because he does not lead by example.

[wallstreetamigo]

I disagree, you're the first I've heard blaming Miller at all.

Hiller, on the other hand, according to experts, looked awkward the whole series, when the Canucks finally broke him down, the Flames played Rambo.

Hindsight is 20/20 - but I wonder if Miller had started, and if we were down 3-1 like we were with Lack, and lack came in relief - if we would have won?

Right now, Lack seems a lot better coming in with no pressure.

I think that pressure got to him in games 3 and 4.

That said, I think he will be much better from that experience.

Miller was brutal with his rebound control and tracking pucks in close. Suggesting he looked good is a bit unrealistic.

The e for Miller will come and I have seen lots of people complain about the poor game he had. I guess you aren't looking in the same threads I am.

Miller at his cap hit is not as valuable to the Canucks as lack is at his. He is simply not significantly better to justify the cap hit.

Same as Bieksa is not significantly better than a guy like Corrado to justify the cap difference.

[RonMexico]

We don't need a plan to replace Bieksa. We just need a body that can play better than he does which becomes easier each passing year. He is no longer such an important piece as to be irreplaceable.

Stanton, Clendenning or Corrado can easily fill his boots.

[FireGillis]

The e for Miller will come and I have seen lots of people complain about the poor game he had. I guess you aren't looking in the same threads I am.

He must have been looking at exactly zero threads since the night of the game if he wants to suggest you were the first person here days after the game to suggest that miller was bad, lol!

[Heretic]

Miller was brutal with his rebound control and tracking pucks in close. Suggesting he looked good is a bit unrealistic.

The e for Miller will come and I have seen lots of people complain about the poor game he had. I guess you aren't looking in the same threads I am.

Miller at his cap hit is not as valuable to the Canucks as lack is at his. He is simply not significantly better to justify the cap hit.

Same as Bieksa is not significantly better than a guy like Corrado to justify the cap difference.

Miller is a veteran, Lack isn't.

Sedins are veterans, Horvat isn't.

Welcome to the cap world and what owners have to pay and are willing to pay.

[Heretic]

He must have been looking at exactly zero threads since the night of the game if he wants to suggest you were the first person here days after the game to suggest that miller was bad, lol!

I see, you're one of "those".

Just glanced at said thread where you were spewing hate.

At least i know where you stand.