Kevin Biestra Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 2 minutes ago, nom_de_plume said: I never said overlapping skills wasn't a good thing. I agree with that as long as the other skills brought to the table don't include an inaccurate shot, skating by hits, disappearing for 20 game stretches and rocking a great beard. The players you mentioned were very much heart and soul guys that I would never discredit because of the other stuff they brought to the ice. Burrows, when on, is a heart and soul guy that could fit those moulds. Higgins is most definitely not and would NEVER be lumped into the same category as a Huddy, Sutter, Odjick, Hunter, etc.... I never discredited Craven or Ronning. BTW Craven played 6 more seasons after the Canucks, they length of Higgins stay here. Fair enough. Just seems like I value Higgins' skills a little higher than you do, relative to the league and to his potential replacement in the Canucks system. And I never said "keep him at all costs." I really just said that we don't desperately need him gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nom_de_plume Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 13 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: We're just going around in circles. Murray Craven got old and his career ended shortly after leaving the Canucks. Doesn't mean an excellent team didn't have room for Ronning and Craven. They would have both made the roster of any team in the NHL at that time, no questions asked. Brent Sutter was a poor man's Bryan Trottier but - though that would make him redundant by your terms - he scored 100 points in a season, they won the Stanley Cup with him, and both he and Trottier remained with the team for several years. Charlie Huddy was the poor man's Kevin Lowe, and an asset to any team in the NHL. Tim Hunter was the poor man's Gino Odjick and we made it to the Stanley Cup finals with both of them. I could go on listing players with overlapping skillsets that can and should co-exist on a roster. I'm sure you can go on trying to discredit them. A little info on Sutter and how he definitely wasn't redundant on a powerful Islanders team. This, for me, does not qualify him as a poor man's anything... Brent Sutter – Sutter won two Stanley Cup championships with the Islanders and took over the Isles’ captaincy after Denis Potvin retired in the late 1980s. While Sutter’s offensive production skyrocketed during the latter portion of his career with the Islanders, the forward was an integral part of New York’s fourth straight Stanley Cup victory as Sutter, Bob Bourne, and brother Duane Sutter formed one of the Isles’ best lines during the 1983 playoffs. Perhaps Sutter’s 1985-1986 NHL campaign will be most remembered by Islanders fans as the center, along with line-mates Mike Bossy and John Tonelli, managed to put up more than 100 points during the regular season. Even though Sutter wasn’t a life-long New York Islander, he certainly had quite an impact on the franchise during his 10-plus seasons of donning the orange, blue, and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 10 minutes ago, alfstonker said: Edler is +3 the 5th best in the team and bettered by only Hamhuis and Tanev in the D and given these 2 play an average of 3 mins less every night I don't know what games you are looking at. By the way Horvat is -12. Vibrata is -13, Personally, I see the plus - minus stat (when used to make players accountable within their own team) as the most revealing stat. Edler, like all players, makes mistakes. However, playing against the hardest match ups, Edler is a plus player. This is because he is producing offence (pluses) to offset his mistakes (minuses). Bo and Vrby need - SIMPLY - to produce offence to balance their mistakes. Currently they are hurting the team, because they are not scoring. If just one of them has ten more points, we are winning those games we lost by one goal. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nom_de_plume Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Personally, I see the plus - minus stat (when used to make players accountable within their own team) as the most revealing stat. Edler, like all players, makes mistakes. However, playing against the hardest match ups, Edler is a plus player. This is because he is producing offence (pluses) to offset his mistakes (minuses). Bo and Vrby need - SIMPLY - to produce offence to balance their mistakes. Currently they are hurting the team, because they are not scoring. If just one of them has ten more points, we are winning those games we lost by one goal. IMHO. Good point Alf.... Can you honk your nose? Just once please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nom_de_plume Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 8 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Fair enough. Just seems like I value Higgins' skills a little higher than you do, relative to the league and to his potential replacement in the Canucks system. And I never said "keep him at all costs." I really just said that we don't desperately need him gone. Maybe not desperately.... But darn soon. With all this youth, what's one more to add to the fire... Couldn't get any worse... You know what you're gonna get or not get with Higgins. Youth will surprise in more ways than one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 4 minutes ago, nom_de_plume said: Good point Alf.... Can you honk your nose? Just once please? I leave honking Alf's nose to Mrs. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milk and honey Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It's obvious that some of you guys never played any team sport as a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nom_de_plume Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: I leave honking Alf's nose to Mrs. Alf Well that's a relief... All those years on TV all alone and your self- honking exposed to the world. Glad to hear you have someone to share that with in your senior days and that the nose still has honking power in it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nom_de_plume Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 3 minutes ago, milk and honey said: It's obvious that some of you guys never played any team sport as a kid. It's also pretty evident that most of us have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 minute ago, milk and honey said: It's obvious that some of you guys never played any team sport as a kid. Does not playing sports make someone less cabable of voicing an opinion on an Internet chat site, even if it's about sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Well, this is an uplifting thread. I sure hope the OP isn't anyone's boss, because that would suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Mistakes happen, these guys are humans not machines... Every team has times with bad giveaways the difference is that good teams know how to come back from that and finish games off. This team is just not good enough, not enough secondary scoring. Heard a stat last night where Sedins combined points is greater than the entire teams combined points including their linemate Hansen who gets fed a lot of points from the twins. Anywho, I've seen so many threads wanting this team to lose, just sit back and relax this team needs a lot of things and it's not going to be fixed this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TU90 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I will celebrate the day Edler is traded. So hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Funny the fans the hate on edler put Hamhuis on the top pair when he's been the worst d man on the team. Slow soft no shot no week passes this guy is done and has been for a while. Hated the prust trade when it happened hate it even more now. so the kids should stand up for themselves I guess the Sedins should too so why do we need a piece of ca-p skilless 4th liner like him. Especially when we have higgins Hansen Dorset cracknell that seem to feel the same way. Markstrom poked bumped pushed not one pus-y/ coward did anything they didn't touch quick the night before it was Miller the refs don't call it because they know the Vancouver kittens aren't going to retaliate. Bearcheese Isn't a NHLer but keep playing him because he "earned" his spot :/ This is the most heartless characterless gutless team this franchise has ever had. Team identity = gutless floaters. that said this team is still doing better than I thought they would in the off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 17 minutes ago, Alflives said: Does not playing sports make someone less cabable of voicing an opinion on an Internet chat site, even if it's about sports? Guess Healy and Stock's opinions are far greater than McKenzie and Friedman's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The positives in all this is that our group of rookies are learning from the veterans on the team. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolwut? Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, alfstonker said: The only way Edler sits is for a rest. A well deserved one but Willie knows only too well what would happen. Wo betide the team and the score on that night because he's one of maybe 3 in that team with his finger "plugging the hole in the dyke" Without him the floodgates will open. All you guys only look at the end mistake and fail to see the reasons behind the mistakes. Our offence's ability to make a contribution in defence is woeful. Well to be fair, our defence hasn't made any significant contribution offensively at all. True, its not just the D that is responsible for defending, but they haven't done nearly a good enough job of that. Imo, our forward lines have been far better than our D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 8 minutes ago, goblix said: Mistakes happen, these guys are humans not machines... Every team has times with bad giveaways the difference is that good teams know how to come back from that and finish games off. This team is just not good enough, not enough secondary scoring. Heard a stat last night where Sedins combined points is greater than the entire teams combined points including their linemate Hansen who gets fed a lot of points from the twins. Anywho, I've seen so many threads wanting this team to lose, just sit back and relax this team needs a lot of things and it's not going to be fixed this year. Good post. Unfortunately a voice of reason is not something that resonates with the "I want it now, I want it yesterday" crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkanuk Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 THIS IS WHAT A TRANSITION LOOKS LIKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I remember watching an interview with Greg Norman (no need to point out golf is a different sport, I am aware, but the following philosophy applies) When asked was separated the elites from the not so elite was not how great their best shots were but how not so bad their mistakes were. That more glaring your mistakes the less you could be considered elite. Edler's good plays are good but his mistakes are god awful. It's why Tanev is beloved. Sure, his shots are as intimidating as a brony furry festival but his mistakes in his end are so slight that you always feel comfortable with him on the ice when the play is in our end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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