Accountability

[37yrsncounting]

This is the one thing I don't understand, why are we not holding players accountable?  Benched them, sit them out for one game, point them out in the media, do something to hold these players accountable for their jobs!!!!!!!!!!!

Edler/Hamhuis - bad giveaways after bad giveaways, send them a message, bench them, sit them, do something to remind them that they are being paid 4 and 5 million dollars to play a game!  Its looks to me like their job is so secure, its their right no matter how bad they play!

Prust - My opinion only, what he said on the radio sucks, is he being a team guy saying the young kids needs to stick up for themselves? or just using it as an excuse as to why he didn't have their backs in the Anaheim game.  He's paid over 2 million, I thought he was brought in to make the environment safe for the kids to play.  I guess he rather give away pucks and make fancy plays to try and score goals.

Horvat - Another player Willie trust but if your not playing well, why keep playing him without sending any messages?  Your worried he will lose confidence?  Your sure not going to motivate the player much when he knows that whatever mistake he makes, his job is safe and I'm sure Bo knows

Baertschi - Have we had enough of him already?  I didn't think he could be worse than Vey but it sure looks like it.  Guaranteed roster spot, why would Baertschi think he would be held accountable?

Bartkowski, Weber, Miller, the list goes on and on....when you don't have to be held accountable and your job is almost guaranteed, the result is this years version of the Vancouver Canucks

[samurai]

Relax and breathe

[Twilight Sparkle]

remember the last coach we had who stressed accountability? he was lynched and is behind the blue jackets bench now

[DeNiro]

I really hope they play Edler's giveaway during their video sessions. Just play it again and again from different angles just to shame him.

Make it clear to the younger guys that this not the type of play an NHLer should be making.

[Rainism]

Benching or sitting 30+ year old players aren't going to do anything as they've reached their ceiling and aren't getting any better.

Our defense is absolutely awful and we are still counting on our 35 year old superstars to score all the goals.

We clearly have a problem when your second line has Prust with Vrbata.

I'm surprised Daniel is even producing above PTS/G with our horrible defense that don't even know how to run the powerplay or simply hit the net. (Weber you got lucky tonight with skating that puck in, it'll only happen once like that and once only for you)

We are in dire need of a trade- I don't care how we do it, it's not gonna be easy but we need a GOOD one.

Players that we desperately need out of our team:

Edler (29), Weber (27), Hamhuis (32), Burrows (34), Higgins (32), Vrbata (34)

I doubt anything is going to even happen since Benning is happy with our group when we're healthy- as heard on TSN1040

 

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, Rainism said:

Benching or sitting 30+ year old players aren't going to do anything as they've reached their ceiling and aren't getting any better.

Our defense is absolutely awful and we are still counting on our 35 year old superstars to score all the goals.

We clearly have a problem when your second line has Prust with Vrbata.

I'm surprised Daniel is even producing above PTS/G with our horrible defense that don't even know how to run the powerplay or simply hit the net. (Weber you got lucky tonight with skating that puck in, it'll only happen once like that and once only for you)

We are in dire need of a trade- I don't care how we do it, it's not gonna be easy but we need a GOOD one.

Players that we desperately need out of our team:

Edler (29), Weber (27), Hamhuis (32), Burrows (34), Higgins (32), Vrbata (34)

I doubt anything is going to even happen since Benning is happy with our group when we're healthy- as heard on TSN1040

 

No team will ever desperately need a player like Burrows off its team.  Even if he declines and slows down, there's no reason he can't serve a role like Tikkanen on the Rangers or Recchi on the Bruins.  He would probably have to be about 42 before his game actually declined enough that he was a net liability on an NHL roster given what else he brings.

As for Hamhuis, again, no team desperately needs to be rid of a player like him.  On his worst day, and if he continues declining, he's a legit #5 or #6 D.  The guy was the captain of the World Championships team when Crosby was out.  He would have to be coughing up the puck a lot more regularly than he is now before he became someone that HAD TO GO.

And Higgins is a poor man's Burrows.  He should perhaps be lower on a depth chart than he is, but what on earth is the guy hurting?

[Rainism]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

No team will ever desperately need a player like Burrows off its team.  Even if he declines and slows down, there's no reason he can't serve a role like Tikkanen on the Rangers or Recchi on the Bruins.  He would probably have to be about 42 before his game actually declined enough that he was a net liability on an NHL roster given what else he brings.

As for Hamhuis, again, no team desperately needs to be rid of a player like him.  On his worst day, and if he continues declining, he's a legit #5 or #6 D.  The guy was the captain of the World Championships team when Crosby was out.  He would have to be coughing up the puck a lot more regularly than he is now before he became someone that HAD TO GO.

And Higgins is a poor man's Burrows.  He should perhaps be lower on a depth chart than he is, but what on earth is the guy hurting?

I guess you're one of those guys who can't let go of their vets, if you want change these guys have to go.

As much as we see Burrows as a heart and soul guy in BC, he gives this team an awful reputation throughout the league. He clearly took us off the powerplay tonight with that stupid slash on the Kings defense because he couldn't ignore a simple chirp. He's also being paid 4.5 million dollars to be on the third line and kill penalties. His time is done here. 

Have you not been watching the game? Hamhuis is not the same player we knew in 2011. Currently he is a shadow of himself. He needs a change of scenery where he can play his game with an actual solid defender (eg. Burns) and not have to worry about doing two things at once. When you have a guy like Burns playing with you obviously your confidence is going to go up. You don't pay your top 4 defenseman 4.5 million a year to become a #5 or #6 D.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Problem is we don't have anyone else to play. You want Biega out there for 24 minutes a game? Then we have to call up someone to fill in Biega's minutes. Utica and their defence are getting thrashed on a nightly basis by AHL teams, they won't do much better against these NHL stars.

Quite frankly our defence is a mess, and has been since 2011. We lost quality and quantity every year thereafter and for whatever reason our bone-headed, stubborn GMs were always content with our defensive depth and never replaced those players lost on the blueline. We lost Ehrhoff and Salo, no real replacement but Garrison. Lose him, no real replacement but Clendening. Lose Clendening, Corrado and Bieksa, no replacement except for Bartkowski.

It's been stepping stones down in the quality and quantity of our defence since it's peak in 2011 and now we're seeing the absolute rock bottom defence.

This is 100% on Benning. If he stressed the importance of defence more, we'd be sitting much prettier right now. Edler and Hamhuis are making mistakes partly because they're not very good defencemen, but more importantly because they're being overworked and stressed. Why? Because they have no depth to back them up. They're playing key minutes nightly and don't get a rest against top opposition, and now they're playing with terrible AHLers like Biega and Weber as partners - that's not helping. You put Hamonic in with Edler and he becomes a star 50 point player again. The same Edler with a shaky, injured Tanev or AHLer like Weber/Biega and you get these game-changing turnovers.

The blame isn't all on the players right now, that's looking too superficially. These mistakes are just the tip of the iceberg of a MUCH bigger problem and it starts at management. Not saying we should clean house or anything, Benning has done a fantastic job, but all the Canucks GMs for whatever reason have neglected the defence and NOW it's biting us in the butt.

But sure...draft another forward with your first few picks...sign another forward UFA...lets sit on this terrible defence for another year...

[Kevin Biestra]

34 minutes ago, Rainism said:

I guess you're one of those guys who can't let go of their vets, if you want change these guys have to go.

As much as we see Burrows as a heart and soul guy in BC, he gives this team an awful reputation throughout the league. He clearly took us off the powerplay tonight with that stupid slash on the Kings defense because he couldn't ignore a simple chirp. He's also being paid 4.5 million dollars to be on the third line and kill penalties. His time is done here. 

Have you not been watching the game? Hamhuis is not the same player we knew in 2011. Currently he is a shadow of himself. He needs a change of scenery where he can play his game with an actual solid defender (eg. Burns) and not have to worry about doing two things at once. When you have a guy like Burns playing with you obviously your confidence is going to go up. You don't pay your top 4 defenseman 4.5 million a year to become a #5 or #6 D.

I can let vets go if I have to.  But that doesn't mean you have to get rid of them just to get rid of them.  The suggestion was that these guys had to get out of there because they are actively preventing this team from succeeding, that it would be addition by subtraction.  I disagree with that.

Why lose Burrows rather than Prust or Dorsett?  Why does Burrows HAVE TO GO but not them?

Also, I'm aware that Hamhuis has declined in his play - perhaps temporarily, perhaps permanently - but my point was that even a reduced capacity Hamhuis is an asset to a team.  He would have to decline substantially more before he HAD TO GO.  I would gladly re-sign him at 2-3M if he was willing to take a paycut.  He's still probably better than Sbisa who makes more than that.

I never enjoy seeing respected vets ushered out the door, but I'm open to it if there's a reason and they are making room for someone better.  But who is it that you think is going to step in for Burrows, Higgins or Hamhuis and improve the roster?  We have nobody in the system that can do that.

[riffraff]

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

No team will ever desperately need a player like Burrows off its team.  Even if he declines and slows down, there's no reason he can't serve a role like Tikkanen on the Rangers or Recchi on the Bruins.  He would probably have to be about 42 before his game actually declined enough that he was a net liability on an NHL roster given what else he brings.

As for Hamhuis, again, no team desperately needs to be rid of a player like him.  On his worst day, and if he continues declining, he's a legit #5 or #6 D.  The guy was the captain of the World Championships team when Crosby was out.  He would have to be coughing up the puck a lot more regularly than he is now before he became someone that HAD TO GO.

And Higgins is a poor man's Burrows.  He should perhaps be lower on a depth chart than he is, but what on earth is the guy hurting?

This is professional sports.

 

its not a question of what are they hurting?

 

it's a question of what are they providing?

 

anything else is an acceptance of mediocrity.

 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

11 minutes ago, riffraff said:

This is professional sports.

 

its not a question of what are they hurting?

 

it's a question of what are they providing?

 

anything else is an acceptance of mediocrity.

 

 

 

The post I responded to said that "we desperately needed" the listed players off the team.

If it's that desperate, it's implied that they're hurting something.

Nobody wants a mediocre team or mediocre players, but what's the point in cattle prodding "mediocre" players out the door if they're going to be replaced by players that are mediocre in the AHL?

We already have our best prospects in the NHL right now.  And the team kind of sucks.  The next guys to make the jump are mediocre-to-poor prospects.  The Virtanens are already up here and aren't setting the world on fire.

So...we desperately need to trade Burrows for a 6th rounder tomorrow so that we can give more icetime to Vey or Shinkaruk?

[Guest]

.

[Ghostsof1915]

Edler as a part of a deal to get Hamonic. 

Send Weber to the AHL, no one would claim him on waivers.

When Hutton is healthy our D looks like.

Hamhuis Hamonic

Hutton Tanev

Sbisa Biega

Bartkowski (7th)

Every d-man gets a steady partner.

Hamonic would have an impact on our power play. Do whatever it takes to get him. As for our forwards. Move Vrbata and Higgins. 

Replace them with Grenier and Shinkarkuk. At least we'll get effort and maybe even players crashing the net. We are playing a perimeter game, and it doesn't work against bigger, faster teams. 

[LaBamba]

So judging by your post you would have benched Sidney Crosby, Ryan Getzlaf, Cory Perry, Mark Giordano, Shea Weber, and all the other proven vets that have had a slow start to the season. 

Interestingz 

I personally think it's best to let players work through their slumps, get their timing back and their head in the game. That's just my opinion which is completely crazy on CDC. 

[Crabcakes]

Canuck depth is being tested.

Injury list:  Sutter, Higgins, Virtanen, Tanev, Hutton. 

Couple this with all the travel over the last month.  The last 4 games were all against tough teams.

As for Willie, I really, really hope he's trusting Markstrom more and will play him more ( 1 out of 3 games at least).  A rested Miller is an asset.  An overplayed Miller is a liability. This will make a huge difference.

[alfstonker]

6 hours ago, 37yrsncounting said:

This is the one thing I don't understand, why are we not holding players accountable?  Benched them, sit them out for one game, point them out in the media, do something to hold these players accountable for their jobs!!!!!!!!!!!

Edler/Hamhuis - bad giveaways after bad giveaways, send them a message, bench them, sit them, do something to remind them that they are being paid 4 and 5 million dollars to play a game!  Its looks to me like their job is so secure, its their right no matter how bad they play!

Prust - My opinion only, what he said on the radio sucks, is he being a team guy saying the young kids needs to stick up for themselves? or just using it as an excuse as to why he didn't have their backs in the Anaheim game.  He's paid over 2 million, I thought he was brought in to make the environment safe for the kids to play.  I guess he rather give away pucks and make fancy plays to try and score goals.

Horvat - Another player Willie trust but if your not playing well, why keep playing him without sending any messages?  Your worried he will lose confidence?  Your sure not going to motivate the player much when he knows that whatever mistake he makes, his job is safe and I'm sure Bo knows

Baertschi - Have we had enough of him already?  I didn't think he could be worse than Vey but it sure looks like it.  Guaranteed roster spot, why would Baertschi think he would be held accountable?

Bartkowski, Weber, Miller, the list goes on and on....when you don't have to be held accountable and your job is almost guaranteed, the result is this years version of the Vancouver Canucks

Apologies for posting this twice but I couldn't be bothered typing it all out again and it sympathises to a certain extent with your thread.

 

 

"Brutal defensive coverage if you want but the BEST defence is offence and quite honestly we were outshot 40-16!!!! What does that tell you? 

It tells me our defence is being burdened on a nightly basis by an offence that is soft, light, lacks bite, lacks strike. Not only that these are the guys the D are relying on coming back to help out.

This problem is what it has always been, plenty of skill if allowed to play but little push back when we come up against tough opposition. Oh we are tough enough and we take it (Tanev/Weber/Vbrata/Horvat etc) but we give the opposition a free ride because its all one sided and no prizes for guessing which team is suffering by the time the playoffs come round.

Did you watch Bieksa the other night. Hardly an error and he spent much of his time in our offensive zone. This is the Bieksa who was called useless and hounded out of town on here. But as soon as you put him behind a big physical offence who come back to help out and take no prisoners, low and behold he looks back to the 2011 Bieksa.

The same goes for Edler. Get off his back, there is no room, he's already carrying the team on it. He can't do everything and yes he is making mistakes but any D would under the pressure he has to endure. Hutton found out the hard way too.

JB has annoyed me with the acquisition of Baertschi. Why? because even if he turns out OK he is not the direction this team needs to take. We need to get more size and power in the forwards. The first prerequisite should be heart, pushback and compete. Fine we need to accommodate the twins for another 3-4 years but there are going to be a lot of places up for grabs soon and I hope JB remembers these two games when he is making his moves. Baertschi was just wrong for this team and he will still be wrong even if he starts to contribute more, because he lacks heart/guts and the ability to stay on his feet and "fight"

The defence when under attack is FIVE not two, or in Edler's case often one."

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, Rainism said:

I guess you're one of those guys who can't let go of their vets, if you want change these guys have to go.

As much as we see Burrows as a heart and soul guy in BC, he gives this team an awful reputation throughout the league. He clearly took us off the powerplay tonight with that stupid slash on the Kings defense because he couldn't ignore a simple chirp. He's also being paid 4.5 million dollars to be on the third line and kill penalties. His time is done here. 

Have you not been watching the game? Hamhuis is not the same player we knew in 2011. Currently he is a shadow of himself. He needs a change of scenery where he can play his game with an actual solid defender (eg. Burns) and not have to worry about doing two things at once. When you have a guy like Burns playing with you obviously your confidence is going to go up. You don't pay your top 4 defenseman 4.5 million a year to become a #5 or #6 D.

Bieksa says hi.

[Jack Fig]

I'd sit Edler for a game. Anyone on that team who appreciates accountability would take notice, and that's the win in doing it.

[alfstonker]

8 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I'd sit Edler for a game. Anyone on that team who appreciates accountability would take notice, and that's the win in doing it.

The only way Edler sits is for a rest. A well deserved one but Willie knows only too well what would happen.

Wo betide the team and the score on that night because he's one of maybe 3 in that team with his finger "plugging the hole in the dyke"

Without him the floodgates will open.

All you guys only look at the end mistake and fail to see the reasons behind the mistakes. Our offence's ability to make a contribution in defence is woeful.

[Jack Fig]

1 minute ago, alfstonker said:

The only way Edler sits is for a rest. A well deserved one but Willie knows only too well what would happen.

Wo betide the team and the score on that night because he's one of maybe 3 in that team with his finger "plugging the hole in the dyke"

Without him the floodgates will open.

All you guys only look at the end mistake and fail to see the reasons behind the mistakes. Our offence's ability to make a contribution in defence is woeful.

Atta boy, keep looking the other way. Free rides for everyone!