[Article] Black and Blue

[TheHitman]

From what I've read surrounding this article, Patrick and his sister would take the brunt of the abuse while the mother watched on. 

[Cerridwen]

36 minutes ago, TheHitman said:

From what I've read surrounding this article, Patrick and his sister would take the brunt of the abuse while the mother watched on. 

The mother should be held accountable, too. She allowed the abuse to go on for years and didn't protect her children.

[Drewismyname]

11 hours ago, DeNiro said:

To be fair, she was probably being abused too and was likely scared of him.

Any female who lacks the protective instincts we often see in animals, as a human, should be put in a zoo where they belong. 

 

Genders aside, the instinct is to protect your child not allow others to beat them. Disgusting. 

[Coconuts]

Very heavy article, he went through hell. He made it, but he likely would have made it without all the abuse.

Heartbreaking that this kind of stuff goes on.

[Canuck Surfer]

6 hours ago, Riviera82 said:

I imagine the mother wasn't treated much better, but she was an adult and this wasn't happening 40 or 50 years ago when it was ok to unmercifully beat your wife and kids. I'm pretty sure she could've gotten the police involved or done something else to put a stop to the abuse. The way I see it, she was just as guilty as the so-called father for sitting on her hands and allowing her child and possibly herself to be terrorized like that for so long.

Look your right. And I mean that.

Ever heard of battered wife syndrome? Google is your friend. Its still a unfortunate reality that victims take a submissive approach to life.  To someone they believe has power in some way over them. Or they are afraid of what they will lose?

The point was, no doubt, there was a cycle of violence and Dan was highly unlikely to be the only victim. Look at some of the stories by other posters. I was not condoning anything. It often takes the (good) coach or parent of another player to take a stand, get involved. A heroic stand.

 

[thema]

Wow I had no idea that domestic violence and alcoholism was restricted to the Irish. "Typical Irish drunk", "everyday life growing up in an Irish household" I mean, really...

 

Remember: Pat Quinn was as Irish as it gets...

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, thema said:

Wow I had no idea that domestic violence and alcoholism was restricted to the Irish. "Typical Irish drunk", "everyday life growing up in an Irish household" I mean, really...

 

Remember: Pat Quinn was as Irish as it gets...

I think it's more of a Catholic thing really. Abuse in church was very common for alot of people growing up. 

Teachers would openly beat kids in class if they were bad. Of course that's going to affect them later in life.

[JV77]

His father is just sick and screwed up, needs help.  This is beyond child abuse, if he would wake him and beat him and take him off the bus.  He has mental issues.

[RonMexico]

2 hours ago, Drewismyname said:

Any female who lacks the protective instincts we often see in animals, as a human, should be put in a zoo where they belong. 

 

Genders aside, the instinct is to protect your child not allow others to beat them. Disgusting. 

 Disgusting is a good way of describing your attitude towards his mother.

[Drewismyname]

2 hours ago, RonMexico said:

 Disgusting is a good way of describing your attitude towards his mother.

Why? Parents who are too fragile/selfish to defend their own children shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. If locking your child in a car to suffocate in the summer accidentally puts you in jail, allowing your spouse to beat your kid within inches of unconsciousness while causing an entire childhood/early adulthood of suffering and torment should also. 

What was she afraid of? Getting beat up? Losing money? Her status in the community? Her child lost the first quarter of his entire existance. He was basically living the life of a prisoner of war in nazi germany while at home. She couldn't stick up for him, because she might get beat up? Might lose her standard of living? The damage that this type of abuse causes is nothing short of what we see in war vets coming home with PTSD. 

How protecting your own child falls under your own selfish needs is beyond my level of comprehensive and I apologize if that offends you "RonMexico". With the huge leaps women have made over the last sixty years there is absolutely no excuse in this type of situation. In fact, claiming she was too scared to do anything and was justified to let it happen is an offense to woman around the world who risked themselves and fought for equal rights. 

No, I don't feel sorry for his mother or anyone else who let it happen. They're disgusting excuses for living creatures who have done their part to create a negetivity that will take generations to heal. I don't know if the player in the article has kids or not but they will be indirectly affected by their fathers war zone of an up bringing, and most likely their children will also. 

And we wonder why there are robberies and rapes and other illegal acts. We wonder why there are school shootings, teenage suicides. 

 

You think I'm disgusting for condemning his mother? You're free too believe what you want, but I disagree. 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

7 hours ago, DeNiro said:

I think it's more of a Catholic thing really. Abuse in church was very common for alot of people growing up. 

Teachers would openly beat kids in class if they were bad. Of course that's going to affect them later in life.

That's just dumb!

Blame the puke priest who was abusing children. I'm all for stringing him up. I'm also for purging through organizations where a criminal (priest) is sheltered to hide embarrassment to the organization (church). 

Fact is there are criminals and creeps in many disciples and ethnicities.

"Oh its not because he's Irish, its because he's Catholic?" The answer is neither.

Its because he's an idiot!

4 hours ago, Drewismyname said:

 

You think I'm disgusting for condemning his mother? You're free too believe what you want, but I disagree. 

 

I'll repeat  a comment I made earlier.  Look up battered wife syndrome. Or tune in to any type of diary on victims who blame themselves. When they are suffering abuse...

Should a mother? Should a coach? Should the parents of a friend? Or the neighbors?

- Have the courage to stand up to a 250LB brawling arse wipe? Of course they should. But they're afraid.

Here is a reality statement. Obituaries, even when restraining orders are in place, are all too common with battered wives. They are more afraid to do anything because they fear the consequences are worse. But you would be amazed how many women do turn in their partners. And its often when the abuse goes beyond them and starts to include a child. I still don't condone the mom accepting what was happening. I'm just saying it would not be as easy as you think.

And your comment was not what any community needs. Which is to blame a victim? It was a sad comment! 

The reality is many people failed Patrick.

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

That's just dumb!

Blame the puke priest who was abusing children. I'm all for stringing him up. I'm also for purging through organizations where a criminal (priest) is sheltered to hide embarrassment to the organization (church). 

Ask a Catholic person who grew up in the 50's and 60's and they'll tell you abuse was a regular part of their childhood. It's well documented.

Sure they can break the cycle but it's not a surprise if the abusive behavior gets passed down.

That being said this case is a pretty extreme one.

 

[Nas19]

It's hard to say exactly what role the mother played in all of this, but to me it doesn't sound like she was abused. It sounds like his dad seriously thought that this was making him a better hockey player. I think his dad saw this as "training" and was limited only to him. The fact that the mother told him to play well or it'll be really bad tonight kinda makes me think that she was okay with the whole thing. The sense I get is that his mom was just as guilty as his dad.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. It could be that she was being just as badly abused as O'Sullivan was, and if that's the case then you can't blame her. As someone mentioned above, abused spouses have a really hard time leaving their SO. It's apparently something that you can't understand unless you've been in the situation yourself. Of course I don't think she was being abused. The whole fact that she said if you don't play well it will be really bad tonight, really makes me believe that she was okay with the whole thing and maybe even encouraged it.

EDIT: And when he called the cops on his dad when he was a teenager wouldn't he have mentioned to the police about the abuse his mom was going through as well? I don't buy it. I think the mother is just as guilty as the father here.

Not a big fan of speculating on stuff like this, but it's just the sense I got from the article.

[Edlerberry]

9 hours ago, Drewismyname said:

Any female who lacks the protective instincts we often see in animals, as a human, should be put in a zoo where they belong. 

 

Genders aside, the instinct is to protect your child not allow others to beat them. Disgusting. 

consider yourself lucky to be so ignorant of the paralyzing fear of domestic abuse, but do understand that you do not understand.

[Canuck Surfer]

39 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Ask a Catholic person who grew up in the 50's and 60's and they'll tell you abuse was a regular part of their childhood. It's well documented.

Sure they can break the cycle but it's not a surprise if the abusive behavior gets passed down.

That being said this case is a pretty extreme one.

 

Quote unquote from my last post,  "I'm also for purging through organizations where a criminal (priest) is sheltered to hide embarrassment to the organization (church)."

My dad was Catholic. edit my dad was a Catholic in the 50's. I am not a believer. But my dad, who no longer is either, would tell you different. Many, many people go to Church and the peace their faith offers is wonderful. His sister just died. She managed to do her last confession. My cousins have a profound sense that their mom is in a beautiful place and place great value in their beliefs. None of my siblings and cousins (and I have more than you could count > Mom was Catholic and from a family of 11, my dad Catholic and a family of 7, all kids had 3 plus more kids) experienced abuse from a priest I know of.

Like all rape, I would be surprised if it did not happen. Not everybody talks. But it does not mean everyone has been touched by it.

People need to keep focussed. Don't hate Irish because some are bad ass. Don't hate Catholics because a small % were abusers. Don't hate muslims because there are Jihadists. Focus on flushing out, holding accountable, those that are a problem from any community. Don't blame the community.

It just creates more hate.

[Bruce Boudreau]

On 10/12/2015 at 4:08 AM, Edlerberry said:

nah, i mean the waking up to a belt at 3am, bruises so deep i had blood in my underwear after sitting down at school, getting left on the side of the highway because he thought i was lying about being sick and needing to pull over somewhere, my mom was strangled to within an inch of her life, brother committed suicide from the stress and fear, living in constant fear of going home so i spent my time immersed in anything i could to stay away. 

Oh my. I had no idea it was that serious...

[Toews]

On 12/11/2015 at 0:44 PM, Nas19 said:

It's hard to say exactly what role the mother played in all of this, but to me it doesn't sound like she was abused. It sounds like his dad seriously thought that this was making him a better hockey player. I think his dad saw this as "training" and was limited only to him. The fact that the mother told him to play well or it'll be really bad tonight kinda makes me think that she was okay with the whole thing. The sense I get is that his mom was just as guilty as his dad.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. It could be that she was being just as badly abused as O'Sullivan was, and if that's the case then you can't blame her. As someone mentioned above, abused spouses have a really hard time leaving their SO. It's apparently something that you can't understand unless you've been in the situation yourself. Of course I don't think she was being abused. The whole fact that she said if you don't play well it will be really bad tonight, really makes me believe that she was okay with the whole thing and maybe even encouraged it.

EDIT: And when he called the cops on his dad when he was a teenager wouldn't he have mentioned to the police about the abuse his mom was going through as well? I don't buy it. I think the mother is just as guilty as the father here.

Not a big fan of speculating on stuff like this, but it's just the sense I got from the article.

If he thought beating his son would make him a better hockey player, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to beat his wife to make her a better wife.

[nuckin_futz]

On 12/13/2015 at 6:46 PM, Toews said:

If he thought beating his son would make him a better hockey player, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to beat his wife to make her a better wife.

His father terrorized the entire household but nearly all of the blows were reserved for Patrick.

Also interesting to note was when the crap happened with him and his father in his first year of junior his coach was none other than Don Cherry.

***********************************

Former NHL player Patrick O'Sullivan's parents had very little of what I call the Big Four of Parenting. In fact, it went way beyond ignorance. They physically and emotionally pummeled their little boy. The word abuse has become too soft of a word. Patrick O'Sullivan was pummeled by his parents. Somehow, he persevered to play in 334 NHL games.

O'Sullivan's first-person account of his childhood was read by many for the first time last week after it was released by The Players' Tribune. It wasn't "breaking news." O'Sullivan's story surfaced in a 2003 Minneapolis Star-Tribune article after he was drafted by the Minnesota Wild. The book "Breaking Away: A Harrowing True Story of Resilience, Courage, and Triumph" was released in October, and we ran an excerpt from that book in November.

However, The Players' Tribune article struck a chord with many as it was tweeted and retweeted on Twitter by a large roster of sports fans. Like other adults not related to O'Sullivan when he was a little boy and through adolescence, the mass sports population somewhat ignored his story until his first-person, no-holds-barred account broke trough. Readers were left with broken hearts reading of the boy with the broken heart. And bloody face.

Casual and non-hockey fans were reading the revealing and disturbing story for the first time, and it struck an emotional chord. And the prevailing questions were undoubtedly, "How could a father do this to his precious son?" and "How could a mother sit idly by and let it happen?"

Because the story was read by so many for the first time and the reaction was so moving, I thought I would call O'Sullivan for a follow-up conversation.

Living in Naples, Florida, with his wife, Sophie, and two sons, O'Sullivan is a self-aware, no-filter, clear-spoken, 30-year-old man. His mind is nimble and smart. He probably would be an excellent TV analyst. He can navigate sentences and paragraphs to make his point vividly and clearly. In my opinion, he was born mentally tough. It's a skill. His parents contributed ZERO to his mental toughness. He would be mentally tough if he was raised by monks.

O'Sullivan was the OHL and CHL rookie of the year in 2002 playing for the Mississauga Ice Dogs. Bruce Bennett/Getty Images

Here is our conversation:

Buccigross: What's it feel like to hit your dad?

O'Sullivan: That's a good question. For me it felt good. He was the person I hated the most in my life. It was something I had to do to take control of my life. I had started to kind of fight back, but not like this. This was it. It was my only option. I had no regrets immediately, after or since. This happened at his parents' house. He left in the car, I went inside, called the police; he eventually went to jail for three months, and I haven't interacted with him since the fight. I saw him at court when I got the restraining order extended and sometimes he would show up at my games, but I haven't talked to him since the fight.

Buccigross: Did you get rattled when you saw him in the crowd at one of your games?

O'Sullivan: Yes. It bothered me because he didn't deserve to see me play. He made sure I could see him. It possibly bothered me the first few times. I couldn't believe he was breaking the law. I would take five or 10 minutes to get my focus back. The restraining order eventually expired, but I never feared for my safety. I didn't even think twice about him getting close enough. He wasn't a dumb person. Everything was calculated. He got away with the abuse for a decade, but now he couldn't get away with it. My dad felt like he should have been an NHL player and for one reason or another got screwed during his journey. So he was going to show everybody how smart he was by how good I was. That was his sole motivation. I don't think my dad [had] any intention of my playing hockey until I showed an interest in it myself. Then the light went off. Especially after I improved as his abuse got worse. He saw a connection. He felt what he was doing was working. And it affected my love of hockey. I loved hockey more than I hated the abuse.

Buccigross: Did your dad hit your mom or siblings?

O'Sullivan: My sister a couple of times, not to the degree I got hit. My sister was actually a very good tennis player and played through high school. She and my mom were terrified of my dad as well. But, my mom was invisible to me as a kid. I don't recall anything abusive to her, I just recall lots of yelling. I don't really have a lot of memories of anything because of the abuse. I was in my own world.

Buccigross: What is up with your parents today?

O'Sullivan: My mom filed for divorce once my dad went to jail. I don't talk to her either, but for separate reasons. When I was 25 I got engaged and started thinking about me and my new family I was about to start. I had been giving money to my mother since I signed my first pro contract. I wanted to help her out, as probably anybody would. But once I got engaged and committed to a family, I told her I would help her go to school or something to get set up for a job and support herself, but I wasn't going to just write her checks anymore. She didn't like that and kind of blew up over it. She sent our wedding invitation back and that was kind of the end of it. That was it. I was actually relieved. I was only maintaining a minimal amount of contact because I had to. I know it's hard to live with someone as abusive as my father but, looking back, I think she kind of drank the Kool-Aid, too, and believed what my father was doing. She let it go on for 10 years. I don't know where either of my parents are.

Buccigross: Are you close with your sisters?

O'Sullivan: I have two younger sisters. I don't speak with them or my mother since all the money stuff happened. They basically were in agreement with my mother when all of that happened so they chose to side with her, I guess. I wasn't close to them growing up. I was outside of my house growing up no matter the weather unless my dad said otherwise.

Buccigross: Were your parents affectionate?

O'Sullivan: No. I think I can remember my dad saying "I love you" once or twice. My mom was early, but it got less and less. When I would leave for a game she wouldn't say "I love you," she would say "[You] better play well or the whole family would suffer." My mother's parents pretty much supported our family. My dad couldn't keep a job. That's why I hold my mom so responsible for so much of the stuff that was going on. She would be on the phone with her parents asking for money but never mention her husband is terrifying the family and abusing their son. It would have been so easy to say something at some point. Once. Ever.

Buccigross: No other parent or coach ever intervened at what you felt was obvious abuse at the hands of your dad?

O'Sullivan: Zero times until my first [year] of major junior. This is when I would show up with significant marks on my face from our more legit fights. One coach came up and asked, "What happened to your face?" I replied, "You know what happened." Then a month later I had the big fight that ended everything. For my book, I went back and asked a lot of old coaches and friends and they all regret the situation and they had an idea but didn't want to believe it. A big reason being I was so productive (148 goals in four years). They couldn't believe someone getting abused could be that good. My dad wasn't dumb, either. He would talk to other parents and socialize and make jokes and laugh with parents.

Buccigross: Do you forgive your parents?

O'Sullivan: I'll put it this way: I no longer have any emotion attached to me as a kid. I don't forgive anybody for anything, especially my parents, but I'm not angry at this point in my life. It took me two years of doing therapy and getting the emotion from the experience removed through that work. I used to be angry, but now it doesn't even cross my mind. I do have dreams occasionally and certain smells and music can bring a flashback of bad memories. But it goes away quickly. I do have a guy I see in Florida every four of five months for maintenance-type purposes. I never had suicidal tendencies or anything like that. I had a "f--- you" and "I'll show you" attitude my whole life. It really hurt my career near the end, but it's all I knew how to do.

O'Sullivan said the Oilers did not get him help when he told them he wanted to work on his emotional issues. Mike Stobe/NHLI/Getty Images

Buccigross: What is your parental discipline approach to your two children (Henry, age 5, and Nathan, 3)?

O'Sullivan: We use timeouts and take away things from them they like. I don't think a light spank to get your point across is the end of the world. It's not something I'm interested in ... but I know the difference. Abuse is passed down, for sure, but I have put the money and time into my own health. People who don't have the means or time to get healthy don't get healthy. I asked the Edmonton Oilers for some help with my emotional issues. I got traded a month later. When I brought it up, they didn't say a word. Guys with substance abuse issues get multiple chances and people commend them for getting help, as they should. Guys with depression or off-ice issues are looked at totally differently. Players don't feel like they can say anything because it's a huge red flag. You say you need to see a psychologist and you'll get a call from your agent saying he spoke to the GM and wants to know what your 'problem' is. The NHLPA has a great substance abuse program, but good luck getting in touch with someone to help with emotional issues. That's why I did everything on my own when I retired. They are useless. They just want to feed you to people so they get their kickbacks.

Buccigross: What has the reaction been to the now widespread understanding of your story?

O'Sullivan: Before the story really got read last week, bookstores had no real interest in my book. Now they all do. I just think the Players' Tribune piece and social media helped cut through and it wasn't really a hockey story but came from a sports outlet.

My first year at Mississauga, Don Cherry was the coach. So, while all the s--- with my dad was going on, Cherry was the coach. If you notice in my book he hasn't gotten involved and I didn't involve him. He is on a camera in an interview with the CBC during my draft year saying that he thought my dad was a good guy and he didn't see any of that coming. Don was a big part of my life there at 16, 17 years old. And he's kind of always expressed remorse when I see him. I think it's difficult for him since he supported my dad. He didn't know my details and said he didn't see it coming, but there were other people telling him not to draft me, to find out more about my background. But he saw my dad as a minor leaguer -- like him -- that just wanted his boy, the good Irish boy, to play well. He didn't do his research and I think he regrets that. I don't want to cause any problems for the guy. I put all of those people in one category. It's not looking hard enough at a situation that I felt was obvious. I don't hate them for it. I think it's sad. And I don't want these people coming to me apologizing now. It's too late. Let's just all move on.

The only thing I struggle with is that I look at my kids and then picture myself as a kid and dealing with [what] I was dealing with ... that still breaks my heart.

 

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/14374155/nhl-john-buccigross-talks-patrick-osullivan-harrowing-childhood