[Discussion] Do we have a shot at Stamkos?

[MaxVerstappen33]

9 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

I don't think it will take 13 million to get him, nor would I pay 13 million. What I would pay is around 11-12 million. This year none of our young guys get a raise and by next season a few of the old contracts begin to expire freeing up room to give the young guys their raise while bringing in new young guys to fill those voids. 

 

From 2009-2016, Stamkos has the 4th most points out everyone in the NHL, 30 points off the player in 1st who has 546 points and is named Ovechkin. Stamkos has also led his team to the Stanley Cup Finals, something Ovechkin has not yet done, maybe this year but not yet.

By the time the dust settles , I think it will be around 13. If the Leafs offer 12 and we offer 12, he probably picks the leafs. Thats why that extra million or 2 makes all the difference

[Bob Long]

17 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Well Tkachuk is primarily a left winger. Not sure he's ever played right wing. And I don't think penciling him in on the first line in his rookie year would be realistic.

 

I also don't see the Sedins being split up any time soon. They were awesome together to start the season and then the pressure of being the only scorers ground them down. As secondary scorers they would have much more success at this stage IMO.

 

Horvat has also proven he's ready to be third line center. Burying him on the fourth line isn't going to do him much good. I think the writings on the wall that Sutter will be moved to wing at some point in the near future.

OK then put him with Henrik on the top line. I don't agree with him not having a chance there, just look at how well Drouin is doing as a rookie. An WD is going to basically be rolling 4 lines anyway, so its not like he'd be seeing 25 minutes a night and wouldn't be on the PP. With WDs style I don't see anyone being "buried" on a 4th line as Horvat would also be on the 2nd unit PP.

 

At some point hopefully before their time is done they should split them up 5-5, otherwise the impact on changing and developing new lines for the future is always stuck. Daniel still scored 30 goals the year Henrik missed about 30 games or so in 2012. At this point in their career I really don't see a reason not to split them 5-5 and keep them together on the 1st PP unit, as it gives out team a lot more balance.

 

If we did somehow manage to get Stamkos, I just think two lines - one with Stamkos and Daniel, and another line with Henrik and some of our current players would solve a lot of our scoring problems. 

 

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

If we did somehow manage to get Stamkos, I just think two lines - one with Stamkos and Daniel, and another line with Henrik and some of our current players would solve a lot of our scoring problems. 

 

 

For this coming year I'd probably just play Stamkos with Baer and likely Sutter. Next year we can look at maybe trying Boesser there.

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, J.R. said:

For this coming year I'd probably just play Stamkos with Baer and likely Sutter. Next year we can look at maybe trying Boesser there.

So Stamkos on the 2nd line... I guess I just don't see the twins as inseparable anymore. Certainly for most of their time to date I would have said no way, but it seems like putting a guy like Stamkos on the 2nd line doesn't make sense, to me he'd be our instant #1C and deserves a better LW than Baer. I like Sven's abilities but he's not top line material yet. 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

So Stamkos on the 2nd line... I guess I just don't see the twins as inseparable anymore. Certainly for most of their time to date I would have said no way, but it seems like putting a guy like Stamkos on the 2nd line doesn't make sense, to me he'd be our instant #1C and deserves a better LW than Baer. I like Sven's abilities but he's not top line material yet. 

I think who's the 'first' or 'second' line in that scenario would depend on who's 'on' that night. Whichever line has more jump and is creating more gets a couple extra minutes of ice time.

 

Baer, Stamkos, Sutter

Sedin, Sedin, Hansen

 

or 

 

Sedin, Sedin, Hansen

Baer, Stamkos, Sutter

 

...labels matter not  

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

I think who's the 'first' or 'second' line in that scenario would depend on who's 'on' that night. Whichever line has more jump and is creating more gets a couple extra minutes of ice time.

 

Baer, Stamkos, Sutter

Sedin, Sedin, Hansen

 

or 

 

Sedin, Sedin, Hansen

Baer, Stamkos, Sutter

 

...labels matter not  

True enough. But I'd rather see this, at least as an experiment for a handful of games:

 

Sedin, Stamkos, Sutter

Baer, Sedin, Hansen

[We Are All Cynics]

On 2016-05-03 at 3:39 PM, VegasCanuck said:

We have the best training facilities in the League. We spend freely but wisely on free agents and we spend to the cap.

 

We have a beautiful city that is crazy about hockey.

 

Yes, we are an attractive destination for free agents.

 

I'm guessing that you are from Edmonton and just trolling?

 

Has nothing to do about the beauty of the city. I suggest you find a map of North America and where the NHL teams are located and notice where the majority are centralized and where Vancouver is. Our travel schedule is the worst, has been the worst and will always be the worst. That factors in big time for players and why Vancouver has always had a hard time luring free agents here.

 

Why do you think Gillis threw $10 million at Mats Sundin. Why do you think he invested so much in sleep therapies and mitigating the effects of travel and jet lag for the Canucks. Why would a player, particularly ones with families, come here when they can go to a city where many road trips they can go by bus and still come home during them. The Canucks can't, they're forced to live out of suitcases every road trip.

 

I'm annoyed only because Vancouver's been a beautiful city before the cap era and we could never land highly coveted free agents if the GM's lives depended on it in the past but lately, the majority on CDC seem to think it's never been a problem and we're on par with other teams which makes me suspect they haven't been fans of the Canucks for very long. I don't believe in a million years Stamkos would ever agree to come here when between us and Toronto, Toronto is a more attractive option travel wise as much as I despise the team.

[We Are All Cynics]

On 2016-05-03 at 3:37 PM, geoffcourtnall said:

What are you basing this on??   How many all world players just mail it in at the peak of their careers?  And Toronto would not win in a spending battle - there is a max that can be offered, and now they have Matthews to sign. 

Mark Messier signed a fat contract and did nothing here. Why should Stamkos be overly motivated if this team is floundering right now and he's guaranteed his $13 million a season? What real incentive is there for him to perform?

 

Most players after signing big juicy contracts do decline or float for some strange coincidental reason. After Iginla won the scoring race and signed a new expensive contract in Calgary, did he keep winning or even threaten the scoring race again? After Markus Naslund got his $6 million a year payday, what was his numbers like (even though I personally believe he was owed the backpay)?

[VegasCanuck]

33 minutes ago, We Are All Cynics said:

Has nothing to do about the beauty of the city. I suggest you find a map of North America and where the NHL teams are located and notice where the majority are centralized and where Vancouver is. Our travel schedule is the worst, has been the worst and will always be the worst. That factors in big time for players and why Vancouver has always had a hard time luring free agents here.

 

Why do you think Gillis threw $10 million at Mats Sundin. Why do you think he invested so much in sleep therapies and mitigating the effects of travel and jet lag for the Canucks. Why would a player, particularly ones with families, come here when they can go to a city where many road trips they can go by bus and still come home during them. The Canucks can't, they're forced to live out of suitcases every road trip.

 

I'm annoyed only because Vancouver's been a beautiful city before the cap era and we could never land highly coveted free agents if the GM's lives depended on it in the past but lately, the majority on CDC seem to think it's never been a problem and we're on par with other teams which makes me suspect they haven't been fans of the Canucks for very long. I don't believe in a million years Stamkos would ever agree to come here when between us and Toronto, Toronto is a more attractive option travel wise as much as I despise the team.

Well, people do like living in a nice place

 

Your point on the travel issue is one that I've referenced in past as well. I think a big part of Torts downfall here, stemmed from his lack of understanding of how hard the travel schedule is on a team. He had never coached on the West Coast before, I don't think he really understood how hard it is on the players. His strategy has always been to play the best players as heavily as he can, but when you're dealing with as much travel as the Canucks, it leads to breakdown of overall team health.

 

Your point is good. When I see people suggesting over the last couple of years that we should sign Jagr and I'm thinking the same thing. At his age, he doesn't want to be flying coast to coast every second week!

 

[We Are All Cynics]

4 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Well, people do like living in a nice place

 

Your point on the travel issue is one that I've referenced in past as well. I think a big part of Torts downfall here, stemmed from his lack of understanding of how hard the travel schedule is on a team. He had never coached on the West Coast before, I don't think he really understood how hard it is on the players. His strategy has always been to play the best players as heavily as he can, but when you're dealing with as much travel as the Canucks, it leads to breakdown of overall team health.

 

Your point is good. When I see people suggesting over the last couple of years that we should sign Jagr and I'm thinking the same thing. At his age, he doesn't want to be flying coast to coast every second week!

 

Thanks, I agree completely with you regarding Torts. It's what I feared when he was announced as coach and had stated that injuries would factor as the season wore on. Travel is brutal for this team and believe it's cost us many times in playoffs as well as acquiring talent. Yes it's a nice place to live but you can't enjoy it when you spend more than half the season away on the road unlike almost every other NHL team.

[We Are All Cynics]

I think all this speculation is moot since Stamkos is likely to resign with TB anyway. The only way I can see him leaving is if he returns to the playoffs and the Lightning win the Cup. Otherwise, it makes little sense he'd want to leave a contending team to come to a non contender like Vancouver or Toronto. I think it was just his way to squeeze TB management into a deal he wants.

[kloubek]

I agree it would be difficult to land Stamkos.  He'd have to understand and truly believe in what we're building here.  I don't believe the Sedins will be split up, and we're not going to have the top line talent Stamkos deserves for another couple of years.  I was really hoping we were going to land Laine so he'd have that talent to work with right off the bat, but even that would not likely have been enough. 

 

I'd love to see Stamkos here so we can build around our next franchise player after the Sedins leave - I just don't see it happening.

[aGENT]

47 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I was really hoping we were going to land Laine so he'd have that talent to work with right off the bat, but even that would not likely have been enough. 

A future Laine/Pulj, Stamkos, Boesser line might have been enough of a pull... *sigh* (Man that looks nice on paper).

 

Not sure Baer/Dubois/Tkachuck, Stamkos, Boesser has as much allure.

[Erik Karlsson]

On 5/4/2016 at 6:29 PM, fanofvan said:

Kinda curious what these "way too many serious injuries" are....I can think of 2 injuries in the past 6 seasons.

Well broken leg, then having a blood clot and a rib removed... Could affect him physically and psychologically. 

 

He's also past his prime, don't see him scoring 50 goals again anytime soon, and goal scorers seem to decline faster than any other players.

 

Not totally against signing him, just wouldn't want him for more than 8.5 mil. Teams are going to be offering him 10+

 

[fanofvan]

1 hour ago, Erik Karlsson said:

Well broken leg, then having a blood clot and a rib removed... Could affect him physically and psychologically. 

 

He's also past his prime, don't see him scoring 50 goals again anytime soon, and goal scorers seem to decline faster than any other players.

 

Not totally against signing him, just wouldn't want him for more than 8.5 mil. Teams are going to be offering him 10+

 

Past his prime at 26?  When exactly was his prime then?

 

 

[kloubek]

14 hours ago, J.R. said:

A future Laine/Pulj, Stamkos, Boesser line might have been enough of a pull... *sigh* (Man that looks nice on paper).

 

Not sure Baer/Dubois/Tkachuck, Stamkos, Boesser has as much allure.

Wouldn't it have, though?  But keep in mind that Boeser isn't going to be playing with us next season, so at best, Stamkos would have had an unseasoned (but still potentially explosive) Laine on one side, with at best Baertschi on the other.  I believe that would also have required one of the wingers to play on an off wing - which might not be ideal.  So what then... Laine Stamkos Sutter?  Not quite what Stamkos feels is ideal, I'm sure....

So it would have been a tough sell then, and it's even tougher now.  I'd love to have Stamkos on this team, I just don't see as much to draw him here as there is elsewhere.  At least if Toronto does draft Matthews, that puts them out of the running.

[Kraken70]

I think Benning makes a phone call, but ultimately, I don't think we land him. I think it more likely that, if we are going after an offensive forward, it would be a player that compliments what we already have at center. 

With Sedin, Horvat, Sutter, Granlund and McCann down the middle, I see our center position as a strength that can be augmented with a free agent signing. A player like Okposo could be the glue for a new first line.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, kloubek said:

Wouldn't it have, though?  But keep in mind that Boeser isn't going to be playing with us next season, so at best, Stamkos would have had an unseasoned (but still potentially explosive) Laine on one side, with at best Baertschi on the other.  I believe that would also have required one of the wingers to play on an off wing - which might not be ideal.  So what then... Laine Stamkos Sutter?  Not quite what Stamkos feels is ideal, I'm sure....

So it would have been a tough sell then, and it's even tougher now.  I'd love to have Stamkos on this team, I just don't see as much to draw him here as there is elsewhere.  At least if Toronto does draft Matthews, that puts them out of the running.

Yeah Boeser would have very much been year after next. He'd have to have been forward-looking in that regard.

 

Not sure it puts them out of the running. Stamkos/Mathews as your 1-2 C's would be pretty awesome...

[kloubek]

26 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Yeah Boeser would have very much been year after next. He'd have to have been forward-looking in that regard.

 

Not sure it puts them out of the running. Stamkos/Mathews as your 1-2 C's would be pretty awesome...

Indeed it would, but if that was the route they wanted to go it would cause other issues for them with a glut at center with both Kadri and Bozak wouldn't it?  (I'm assuming those two players are strictly centers and haven't been moved to the wing?)  Looks like with Matthews they're already going to be overpaying for their 3rd center.

I guess this is nothing that couldn't be rectified with a trade or two...

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, kloubek said:

Indeed it would, but if that was the route they wanted to go it would cause other issues for them with a glut at center with both Kadri and Bozak wouldn't it?  (I'm assuming those two players are strictly centers and haven't been moved to the wing?)  Looks like with Matthews they're already going to be overpaying for their 3rd center.

I guess this is nothing that couldn't be rectified with a trade or two...

Somebody moves to W or yeah, you trade a guy to shore up other areas of deficiency.