cyoung Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Disagree, thought his D+1 was poor. Didn't see any improvements by his perferomnce in training camp. Didn't see any improvement by his numbers staying the same in London. We'll see how he looks this upcoming training camp with a season playing against men under his belt. Expecting a fantatstic showing and him to make the team or show at least he is ready. I disagree completely, look at how strong London was during his draft year obviously when their top players graduated his offensive numbers were gonna go down. They also played him in a different role to shelter a budding Bouchard (will most likely be a top 10 this year). You need to learn more about circumstances. Obviously I would of liked it if he produced more but given the situation it was hard to improve his offensive numbers. Stop being so ignorant, it's like talking to a wall. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes and for top five picks the hope would be that they would be ready by two years. It really shouldn't take that long IMO and history shows that if you want a future impact player. The hope is they come in immediately and thrive. But come back to earth buddy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aGENT Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: In the last decade, looking at top 5 picks. The only non Nhler's by their D+2 season are Dylan Strome, MDC, and Griffen Reinhart. First, you need to look at #5 picks, not top 5 picks. Shockingly 1st and 2nd overalls tend to make the NHL pretty soon Second, you need to look at D taken at 5. D tend to take longer. 47 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: I have showed patience, it's been almost 2 years. That's not patience. And if you were paying attention, you'd have noted he was expected to take 2-4 years to make the NHL when drafted. He's right on track with his time line. 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brad Marchand Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 I've given up on trying to microanalyze on this forum. A player can have a good season for three months, but when things don't go well for a week or two, it's suddenly panic at the disco for some people. Could you imagine how many players the Canucks would have traded away if they were this reactionary? Seriously, it's fine to say he isn't playing particularly well at the moment, but two weeks is a pretty short time to start making long-term career projections. It would have been exactly the same as writing Juolevi off after training camp. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gaudette Celly Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: I have showed patience, it's been almost 2 years. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Why would there be a set time for development? You draft a player for the player he will be in his prime, not the player he will be in 3 years. You can look a the history of top 5 picks and see that most high end top defenseman are in the NHL in at least there D+2 years, however if you look at the top defenseman in the league regardless of draft postion you will see that plenty of them took much longer that 2 years to make the NHL. It really doesn't matter where they were picked, it matter where they end up in the long run. Yes it does matter where they were picked. If you're picked in the top 5 you should have considerbly higher standards and expectations compared to propects picked in the mid rounds. Just beacuse PK Subban took 3 years and now is Norris Calibre, doesn't mean i can excuse Juolevi's, imo, rocky development so far and say "who cares about right now it only matters in the end, look at these other d-men who took 3-4 years!" when those d-men have had excellent deveolpment years leading to their Norris status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Remember this is a top 5 pick not a 3rd round pick. It really shouldn't take more than 2 years for your top 5 picks to start contributing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just now, R.Dahlin26 said: Remember this is a top 5 pick not a 3rd round pick. It really shouldn't take more than 2 years for your top 5 picks to start contributing. So he's NOT "contributing"? Sorry, but most of your posts are just trolling and this is outright foolishness. Unfortunately people keep taking the bait, as it was in the Virtanen forum with 5th Line and The Frog. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SingleThorn Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Very disappointing especially with the studs they passed up on only to draft a project prospect. Already went through this with the 2014 draft, pray to god Juolevi gets his $&!# together. 2 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Now it's expecting him to perform like a first overall pick? How about a top 5 pick, which he is. In the last decade, looking at top 5 picks. The only non Nhler's by their D+2 season are Dylan Strome, MDC, and Griffen Reinhart. Right now it's looking like he's not even close to NHL ready, with being healty scratched and only the 7th d-man in the finnish league. Remenber this isn't some mid round prospcet or even a late first round prospect, this is a top 5 pick, a pick that was already highly questionable with the players they passed on. Right now the desicion is not looking great. 2 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes, if you make the correct choice in the top 5, it shouldn't take more than 1 year for that prospect to be ready, 2 years tops (see Pietrangelo). If it's taking 3-5 years for a top 5 pick to be an NHL'er let alone an impact player then there is something seriosly wrong with that prospect. They either are big dissapointments or busts. No one is writing Juolevi off. But to say he is fine and his development has gone as planned is false. This upcoming training camp will be significant for Juolevi and his future. He should be one of the better players at this time and make the team next fall for the 2018-2019 season and start making strides towards being a top 4 d-man. 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes, it shouldn't take 2 years. Pietrangelo went D+1 - D+2 - NHL. So two seasons of developing in the OHL with NHL games sprinkled in. Put up 40 points in rookie season. So Juolevi would have to be in the NHL by next year to follow Pietrangeo's path. 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: IMO, his development has not gone as planned or expected at least it shouldn't when you're picking in the top 5. They shouldn't take more than 1-2 years and should be impact players. I was hoping for him to at least look like he was close to making the team last year but in training camp his perferomnce was very bad. Being danced around by nobody's in the prospcts tournamnet and had a bad showing in the pre-season. That was with a year of deveolpment under his belt. Like you said it might be because of gaining size, but all prospects gain size and have to adjust. Agreed on the last part, if he looks lost next year that would be very concerning with what would be 2 years of deveolpment under his belt. 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes by 2 years Pietrangelo was a full time NHL'er, put up 40+ points in rookie season and was a top 4 d-man. By the same timeline, Juolevi should make the team out of camp next year and be a full time NHL'er making strides becoming a top 4 d-man. 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes that's fine. No harm in talking about his progression up to this point though and experssing your thoughts on recent news. 1 hour ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Don't mistake patience with expectation. I have showed patience, it's been almost 2 years. That should be it for top 5 picks, if they aren't impact players by then they should at least be in the NHL making strides towards becoming that. That last point is arguable but we'll see how that "great season" translates to him looking in training camp. 54 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Pettersson with his D+1 has proved to be a franchise level prospect and will be in the NHL for sure by his D+2 season. Juolevi stagnated, maybe even slightly regressed imo in his D+1 and now his D+2 is almost over and his deveoplment has been up and down so far. You're assuming the gamble of taking the project d-man in the top 5, that needed to gain weight unlike the other d-men drafted afterwards will pay off. And yes his upcoming training camp perferomnce will be very telling. 47 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Than how do you differentiate between a 5th round pick with a 5th overall pick? Are expectations the same for both of them? If there is no set time for deveolpment? 43 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Disagree, thought his D+1 was poor. Didn't see any improvements by his perferomnce in training camp. Didn't see any improvement by his numbers staying the same in London. We'll see how he looks this upcoming training camp with a season playing against men under his belt. Expecting a fantatstic showing and him to make the team or show at least he is ready. 40 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes and for top five picks the hope would be that they would be ready by two years. It really shouldn't take that long IMO and history shows that if you want a future impact player. 34 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Why would he need to get bigger? He's dominating the SHL at 170lbs. Over the years he'll add weight naturally. Going by NHLe he would put up 60 points in the NHL going off his SHL production. Didn't look overhelmed at all on the smaller surface at all to me. His ceiling will always be a first liner to me because numbers don't lie. Imo he'll make the team right out of camp. As for Juolevi we'll see how he looks in training camp. It just that this recent news about him sitting/7th d-man is concerning and raises questions. 28 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: *by their D+2 seasons. So after 2 years they should at least be full time NHL'ers. Guys like Strome, MDC, Reinhart all are taking 3-5 years and all look like disspointments or are busts. Yes guys like Schenn/Gudbranson/Bogasian look like awful picks for where they were drafted. 23 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Lol I suggest reading your own posts on pages 1-3 of this thread. You might not feel that way anymore, but I still do. 3 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes it does matter where they were picked. If you're picked in the top 5 you should have considerbly higher standards and expectations compared to propects picked in the mid rounds. Just beacuse PK Subban took 3 years and now is Norris Calibre, doesn't mean i can excuse Juolevi's, imo, rocky development so far and say "who cares about right now it only matters in the end, look at these other d-men who took 3-4 years!" when those d-men have had excellent deveolpment years leading to their Norris status. Just now, R.Dahlin26 said: Remember this is a top 5 pick not a 3rd round pick. It really shouldn't take more than 2 years for your top 5 picks to start contributing. Blah, blah, blah......me, me,me......subject doesn't matter, this is the 'circle game'. The never ending round and round with no real attempt to find an answer. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cyoung Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Remember this is a top 5 pick not a 3rd round pick. It really shouldn't take more than 2 years for your top 5 picks to start contributing. Draft picks aren't solely based on immediate impact. They put the most emphasis on their projected ceiling. With every post you make, it seems like you know less and less. Edited February 3, 2018 by cyoung 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted February 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 2 2 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said: So he's NOT "contributing"? Sorry, but most of your posts are just trolling and this is outright foolishness. Unfortunately people keep taking the bait, as it was in the Virtanen forum with 5th Line and The Frog. Whadya think? Dupe account or someone equally as obtuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great 8 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: This should hush the haters for now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes it does matter where they were picked. If you're picked in the top 5 you should have considerbly higher standards and expectations compared to propects picked in the mid rounds. Just beacuse PK Subban took 3 years and now is Norris Calibre, doesn't mean i can excuse Juolevi's, imo, rocky development so far and say "who cares about right now it only matters in the end, look at these other d-men who took 3-4 years!" when those d-men have had excellent deveolpment years leading to their Norris status. I think the kid thought it was going to be easy and didn't work hard in his D+1 year. It must have been a shock to him when Green told him that his effort just wasn't good enough. I think it would help him to see how hard players like the Sedins and Horvat really do work. Now he's playing catch up. Hopefully Salo is giving him a reality check. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: So he's NOT "contributing"? Sorry, but most of your posts are just trolling and this is outright foolishness. Unfortunately people keep taking the bait, as it was in the Virtanen forum with 5th Line and The Frog. If you disagree attack the argument not the poster. I could go to everything that I don't like to hear and say "you're just trolling" but I'd rather debate like these discussion boards are for. This is a prospect who has had a rocky development so far and it's not the end of the world to acknowledge it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: Whadya think? Dupe account or someone equally as obtuse? Funny you should ask. I was just thinking, maybe CalgaryPuck commissioned 5thLine to come in here and endlessly troll us over Virtanen, and now they've sent this guy to troll us over Juolevi. What makes it apparent something's up is that he posts so much that eventually he makes some really, and I mean REALLY obviously dumb comments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, cyoung said: Draft picks are solely based on immediate impact. They put the most emphasis on their projected ceiling. With every post you make, it seems like you know less and less. What do you see Juolevi's ceiling as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 minute ago, R.Dahlin26 said: If you disagree attack the argument not the poster. I could go to everything that I don't like to hear and say "you're just trolling" but I'd rather debate like these discussion boards are for. Look a few posts up -- someone posted just a few examples of your "contributions". Sorry, I won't be your Alf-like troll-playmate, go have fun with the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Funny you should ask. I was just thinking, maybe CalgaryPuck commissioned 5thLine to come in here and endlessly troll us over Virtanen, and now they've sent this guy to troll us over Juolevi. What makes it apparent something's up is that he posts so much that eventually he makes some really, and I mean REALLY obviously dumb comments. Lol so you're sensitive beacuse of Virtanen? Relax a little criticism that is IMO warranted for a prospect isn't going to kill you It's extremely cringe when I see grown ass men use the word "Troll" or childish picture memes on a hockey disscusiion board. If you don't like my posts no ones making you enter this thread forcing you to read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: Yes it does matter where they were picked. If you're picked in the top 5 you should have considerbly higher standards and expectations compared to propects picked in the mid rounds. Just beacuse PK Subban took 3 years and now is Norris Calibre, doesn't mean i can excuse Juolevi's, imo, rocky development so far and say "who cares about right now it only matters in the end, look at these other d-men who took 3-4 years!" when those d-men have had excellent deveolpment years leading to their Norris status. Having higher standards and expectations doesn't really relate to how long it takes until your in the NHL though. You have high standards and expectations on how good that player will be in the long run at their peak. You can take examples of other players to show that most successful top 5 picks were in the NHL in their D+2 seasons but that isn't a rule, plenty of top drafted high end defenseman who were in the NHL within their D+2 years ended up mediocre of being busts. There are examples of highly drafted defenseman who weren't in the NHL in their D+2 seasons. Also looking at the top 20 best defenseman in the NHL it's littered with guys who were drafted later in the round and took plenty of time to make the NHL. I really don't understand how or why you put so much emphasis on the time it takes for him to make the NHL. Maybe you're expectations are too high. Just because he was the first defeneman taken and was taken at 5th doesn't mean he has to be a #1 defenseman. IMO if he ends up like Hamhuis or Salo who were never really top pairing defenseman than it would be considered a win. It really comes down to who else would you have drafted at that position, a good argument could be made for Tkachuk or Sergachev. Juolevi could still easily be as good or better than those 2, hard to compare with Tkachuk who is a winger and while Sergachev is in the NHL and putting up points he has been massively sheltered and is playing on an offensive Juggernaught of a team. He's also been healthy scratched for looking tired and it's no guarantee he will be the better player in the long run. See Horvat vs Nichuskin. Also a thing to note is that due to Juolevi's age he can't play in the AHL, many of these defenseman that were playing in their d+2 years started in the AHL and were called up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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