2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[messier's_elbow]

26 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

He plays at such a low level it's hard to project how his game would translate to the NHL. If he had some international experience for comparison it would make me a little more confident about management picking him.

 

At this point i think a player like him is too risky. We need to pick a player with a high ceiling, but we would really be swinging for the fences with this one. Liljegren and Heiskanen represent a safer pick with high upsides that not many would question taking 5th overall.

I think Heiskanen is above the rest of the defence. Makar and Liljegren are pretty close. There's definitely a chance 2 defenceman are picked in the top 5. 

[Shiftynifty]

3 hours ago, messier's_elbow said:

I think Heiskanen is above the rest of the defence. Makar and Liljegren are pretty close. There's definitely a chance 2 defenceman are picked in the top 5. 

It is a shame Heiskanen probably won't make it to 5; the kid looks pretty good. 

[73 Percent]

21 minutes ago, Shiftynifty said:

It is a shame Heiskanen probably won't make it to 5; the kid looks pretty good. 

Players who probably wouldn't make to 5 according to cdc;

 

Patrick, Hischier, Mittlestadt, heiskanen, vilardi.

 

I have a feeling one of those guys will be available. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by 73 Percent

[Derp...]

2 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Players who probably wouldn't make to 5 according to cdc;

 

Patrick, Hischier, Mittlestadt, heiskanen, vilardi.

 

I have a feeling one of those guys will be available. 

60% of the time one of them will be available every time at 5. Its science.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Derp...

[Derp...]

 

DBL Post

Edited May 5, 2017 by Derp...

[73 Percent]

2 minutes ago, Derp... said:

60% of the time one of them will be available every time at 5. Its science.

Probably closer to 73% no?

[Camel Toe Drag]

1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

Probably closer to 73% no?

There you go with your catch phrase again lol. I know another character on CDC with a catch phrase. 

[Warhippy]

8 hours ago, DeNiro said:

He plays at such a low level it's hard to project how his game would translate to the NHL. If he had some international experience for comparison it would make me a little more confident about management picking him.

 

At this point i think a player like him is too risky. We need to pick a player with a high ceiling, but we would really be swinging for the fences with this one. Liljegren and Heiskanen represent a safer pick with high upsides that not many would question taking 5th overall.

Not singling you out man

 

But damn this forum and others have got to stop using 10 day tournaments to qualify prospects.  We have a few recent picks/prospects to qualify that reasoning.

 

I posted in another thread players that came through "low level" play 

 

T. Jost

D. Fabbro

D. Keith

C. Kobasew

B. Morrison

T. Glass

P. Kariya

B. Hull

 

These are just players from Pentictons junior club over the last 25 years that stand out, there's plenty more.  Just saying so long as the development is there and teams have the patience, no harm no foul taking a kid from a Junior Club

 

[Sugar baby watermelon]

Dobber Prospects 2017 has Canucks taking Heiskanen at 5th.  What you think?

 

1. New Jersey Devils – Nolan Patrick, Center (Brandon, WHL)

Patrick is a franchise-level, big, strong, and smart top-line center with a complete game who should pay quick dividends for the low-scoring Devils. Often injured in recent years, they'll do their due diligence and cross their fingers hoping none of his past injuries impact future performance. - Kevin Wickersham@KWcrosscheck

2. Philadelphia Flyers – Nico Hischier, Center (Halifax, QMJHL)

A dynamic offensive force, the 6-0, 179-pound agile, lightning-quick Hischier will likely transition to a high-powered wing spot on the Flyers top-six next season providing a needed scoring boost. - Kevin Wickersham @KWcrosscheck

3. Dallas Stars – Casey Mittelstadt, Center (Green Bay, USHL)

The Stars have plenty of solid D prospects in Esa Lindell, Stephen Johns and Julius Honka and believe Mittelstadt is the best overall player.- Peter Harling @pharling

4. Colorado Avalanche – Owen Tippett, Right Wing (Mississauga, OHL)

Arguably the best player available and the organization lacks true shoot-first forwards. Hayden Soboleskih@soboleskih

5. Vancouver Canucks – Miro Heiskanen, Defence (HIFK, Liiga)

The tremendously gifted left-hander displays all the tools to become a top pairing defender down the road. His skating, vision, and IQ are off the charts and he demonstrated his offensive flair by potting two goals and 12 points in seven U18 contests.

While he's not the biggest player, his ability to process the game at a high level allows him to smoothly disrupt zone entries and transition into the offense. – Cam Robinson @CrazyJoeDavola3

6. Vegas Golden Knights – Gabriel Vilardi, Center (Windsor, OHL)

Same reason as Mock Draft 1.0 and Vilardi will be a great player to build an expansion team around. It really does depend on how Vegas' Expansion Draft goes, if they don't get a stud #1 down the middle in the Expansion, drafting Vilardi to be that guy in the future will help their development in the first few years of Expansion. - Paul Zwambag @zwambag

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Not singling you out man

 

But damn this forum and others have got to stop using 10 day tournaments to qualify prospects.  We have a few recent picks/prospects to qualify that reasoning.

 

I posted in another thread players that came through "low level" play 

 

T. Jost

D. Fabbro

D. Keith

C. Kobasew

B. Morrison

T. Glass

P. Kariya

B. Hull

 

These are just players from Pentictons junior club over the last 25 years that stand out, there's plenty more.  Just saying so long as the development is there and teams have the patience, no harm no foul taking a kid from a Junior Club

 

Neither karyia or keith were drafted from bchl. 

 

Kayria was drafted out of the university of Maine and Keith was drafted was drafted from Michigan state. 

 

Yes they played there at one point in thier lives but they werent drafted out of that league. Dan cloutier played a season in the gojhl but thats completely different than getting drafted from there

 

Also Makar played all year in the AJHL,  not the BCHL, so you can't really compare the two leagues.  The BCHL is a better league than the AJHL

 

Between 1999 and 2016 only 35 players were drafted from the AJHL.

Out of that 35 players only 2 were in the first round.  Colborne was highest picked at 16th overall.

Out of that 35 players only 2 played over 200 games,  (M.Benning and Parayko will pass that) for that’s a total of 4 players in the last 18 years.

 

 For comparison;

 

Between 1999 and 2016  there were 95 players drafted from the BCHL. (that’s over 3x the amount of players)

8 players were taken in the first round, Turris was the highest a 3rd overall. 

Out of that 95 players 9 played over 200 games (jost, Fabbro and Cholowski are probably going to pass that mark too.)  That would be 12 players (4x more than the AJHL) in the last 18 years. 

 

 

 Just for fun,

 

USHL

1999 and 2016  there were 329 players selected from the USHL. (yes more teams but they still produce more NHL talent)

44 players were taken in the first round,

Okposo/keller was the highest a 7th overall. 

51 played over 200 games

 

CCHA (Central Collegiate Hockey Association)

1999 and 2016  there were 89 players selected from the CCHA.

12 players were taken in the first round,

Al Montoya was the highest a 6th overall. 

24 played over 200 games

 

OHL

1999 and 2016  there were 743 players selected from the OHL.

135 players were taken in the first round,

8 players taken 1st overall

169 played over 200 games

 

QMJHL

1999 and 2016  there were 433 players selected from the QMJHL.

112 players were taken in the first round,

3 players taken 1st overall

59 played over 200 games

 

WHL

1999 and 2016  there were 674 players selected from the WHL.

46 players were taken in the first round,

RNH was the highest  and only 1st overall (Patrick could be the second player since 1999). 

134 played over 200 games

Edited May 5, 2017 by ForsbergTheGreat

[Warhippy]

39 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Neither karyia or keith were drafted from bchl. 

 

Kayria was drafted out of the university of Maine and Keith was drafted was drafted from Michigan state. 

 

Yes they played there at one point in thier lives but they werent drafted out of that league. Dan cloutier played a season in the gojhl but thats completely different than getting drafted from there

 

Also Makar played all year in the AJHL,  not the BCHL, so you can't really compare the two leagues.  The BCHL is a better league than the AJHL

 

Between 1999 and 2016 only 29 players were drafted from the AJHL.

Out of that 29 players only 2 were in the first round.  Colborne was highest picked at 16th overall.

Out of that 29 players only 2 played over 200 games,  (Benning and Parayko will soon pass that) for that’s a total of 4 players in the last 18 years.

 

 For comparison;

 

Between 1999 and 2016  there were 95 players drafted from the BCHL. (that’s over 3x the amount of players)

8 players were taken in the first round, Turris was the highest a 3rd overall. 

Out of that 95 players 9 played over 200 games (jost, Fabbro and Cholowski are probably going to pass that mark too.)  That would be 12 players (4x more than the AJHL) in the last 18 years. 

You're kinda missing the point.

 

These are players that developed in what is considered a lower league.

 

As well Makar is set for college thus ensuring a solid development much like many of the players you mentioned so many of those fears are ungrounded 

 

As well.  If people are going to hold Makar accountable than they MUST hold Mittlestadt to the same standards for his high school records.

 

And finally Makar is currently one of the leading scorers in a tournament comprised of the best players from the respective junior A leagues from BC to Manitoba and has his team secured for the RBC cup tournament which hosts the best teams in all of Canada.  Which us to say he's playing and doing well in a high skills tournament.  

 

If we can set apart European and American players in lesser leagues Makar is no different.  If he goes top 5 I won't be shocked

[ForsbergTheGreat]

21 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You're kinda missing the point.

 

These are players that developed in what is considered a lower league.

 

As well Makar is set for college thus ensuring a solid development much like many of the players you mentioned so many of those fears are ungrounded 

 

Put it this way, Fabbro, out produced Makar in ppg while playing in a stronger league.  Fabbro had more international play and he ended up going 17th overall,  I don't see how a player who's done less can crack the top 5, even if the draft is a bit weaker. 

 

Quote

As well.  If people are going to hold Makar accountable than they MUST hold Mittlestadt to the same standards for his high school records.

 

If Casey only played USHS with zero international play and zero time spent in the USHL you might have a point.  but either way I'm not extremely high on casey, he's the my fall back if Vilardi doesn't drop to us. 

 

 

Quote

And finally Makar is currently one of the leading scorers in a tournament comprised of the best players from the respective junior A leagues from BC to Manitoba and has his team secured for the RBC cup tournament which hosts the best teams in all of Canada.  Which us to say he's playing and doing well in a high skills tournament.  

I've played in the RBC cup I know what it's all about.  It's not a collection of the best players, it's a collection of the best teams.  There's still plenty of low end talent in that tournament that can easily be taken advantage of.  Plenty of top players teams don't make it, so you can't hold it to the same standard of something like an international tournament.  Where teams select the best of the best. 

 

Quote

If we can set apart European and American players in lesser leagues Makar is no different.  If he goes top 5 I won't be shocked

People were thinking the same thing about Jost, he just made the top 10 and he's had even higher international success.  I don't see Makar going top 5 and I'll be very upset if the canucks take him knowing that one of the other centers will still be available at that spot. TL being a med hat boy and brooks being so close, it wouldn't surprise me.

Edited May 5, 2017 by ForsbergTheGreat

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Put it this way, Fabbro, out produced Makar in ppg while playing in a stronger league.  Fabbro had more international play and he ended up going 17th overall,  I don't see how a player who's done less can crack the top 5, even if the draft is a bit weaker. 

 

 

If Casey only played USHS with zero international play and zero time spent in the USHL you might have a point.  but either way I'm not extremely high on casey, he's the my fall back if Vilardi doesn't drop to us. 

 

 

I've played in the RBC cup I know what it's all about.  It's not a collection of the best players, it's a collection of the best teams.  There's still plenty of low end talent in that tournament that can easily be taken advantage of.  Plenty of top players teams don't make it, so you can't hold it to the same standard of something like an international tournament.  Where teams select the best of the best. 

 

People were thinking the same thing about Jost, he just made the top 10 and he's had even higher international success.  I don't see Makar going top 5 and I'll be very upset if the canucks take him knowing that one of the other centers will still be available at that spot. TL being a med hat boy and brooks being so close, it wouldn't surprise me.

Answer this simple question

 

Will you be surprised if Makar goes top 7 based on not only team needs, but future needs.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Answer this simple question

 

Will you be surprised if Makar goes top 7 based on not only team needs, but future needs.

I think the earliest he goes is 7 

[250Integra]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Not singling you out man

 

But damn this forum and others have got to stop using 10 day tournaments to qualify prospects.  We have a few recent picks/prospects to qualify that reasoning.

 

I posted in another thread players that came through "low level" play 

 

T. Jost

D. Fabbro

D. Keith

C. Kobasew

B. Morrison

T. Glass

P. Kariya

B. Hull

 

These are just players from Pentictons junior club over the last 25 years that stand out, there's plenty more.  Just saying so long as the development is there and teams have the patience, no harm no foul taking a kid from a Junior Club

 

LOL.

[nergish]

1 hour ago, Sugar baby watermelon said:

Dobber Prospects 2017 has Canucks taking Heiskanen at 5th.  What you think?

 

1. New Jersey Devils – Nolan Patrick, Center (Brandon, WHL)

Patrick is a franchise-level, big, strong, and smart top-line center with a complete game who should pay quick dividends for the low-scoring Devils. Often injured in recent years, they'll do their due diligence and cross their fingers hoping none of his past injuries impact future performance. - Kevin Wickersham@KWcrosscheck

2. Philadelphia Flyers – Nico Hischier, Center (Halifax, QMJHL)

A dynamic offensive force, the 6-0, 179-pound agile, lightning-quick Hischier will likely transition to a high-powered wing spot on the Flyers top-six next season providing a needed scoring boost. - Kevin Wickersham @KWcrosscheck

3. Dallas Stars – Casey Mittelstadt, Center (Green Bay, USHL)

The Stars have plenty of solid D prospects in Esa Lindell, Stephen Johns and Julius Honka and believe Mittelstadt is the best overall player.- Peter Harling @pharling

4. Colorado Avalanche – Owen Tippett, Right Wing (Mississauga, OHL)

Arguably the best player available and the organization lacks true shoot-first forwards. Hayden Soboleskih@soboleskih

5. Vancouver Canucks – Miro Heiskanen, Defence (HIFK, Liiga)

The tremendously gifted left-hander displays all the tools to become a top pairing defender down the road. His skating, vision, and IQ are off the charts and he demonstrated his offensive flair by potting two goals and 12 points in seven U18 contests.

While he's not the biggest player, his ability to process the game at a high level allows him to smoothly disrupt zone entries and transition into the offense. – Cam Robinson @CrazyJoeDavola3

6. Vegas Golden Knights – Gabriel Vilardi, Center (Windsor, OHL)

Same reason as Mock Draft 1.0 and Vilardi will be a great player to build an expansion team around. It really does depend on how Vegas' Expansion Draft goes, if they don't get a stud #1 down the middle in the Expansion, drafting Vilardi to be that guy in the future will help their development in the first few years of Expansion. - Paul Zwambag @zwambag

I take Heiskanen if he's available too.
Okay, there might be some overlap between he and Juolevi, but that's an excellent twosome to build around on the backend. He's also got the most value of any available player there, it's something we could potentially flip for a huge return one day if we needed to.

 

Makar would be a good option if we didn't already have Stecher. A smallish RH d-man who plays smart, responsible defence but has hands to walk the blueline on the powerplay and deke around/spin off guys.... yeah, we have that already boys.

 

I dunno, I think we'll end up with Mittelstadt. I'm a bit worried about that because nobody knows whether his game will translate to the next level, let alone the NHL. But in terms of sheer ability, he has the kind of offensive instincts and hands we need. He's also not small.

 

If everything goes perfectly, we could have a trifecta of Olympic-tier American players in Boeser, Demko, and Mittelstadt. 

 

Glass would be a good option too, but the Jake Virtanen experiment has terrified everyone here, and even though they are not similar players at all, they both seemed to dominate against smaller/less skilled players while lacking the refined skills of a true NHL-calibre offensive weapon.

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

LOL.

He's an NHL player with more than 500+ games played.  That's a damned site more than more than a few top 10 picks taken from "better leagues" and impressive from someone taken from a "lesser league" as has been stated about the Junior A clubs.  Plus, 4 points in his last 5 playoff games for the Rangers and his man love AV aint bad.  If only they had more Rome

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

He's an NHL player with more than 500+ games played.  That's a damned site more than more than a few top 10 picks taken from "better leagues" and impressive from someone taken from a "lesser league" as has been stated about the Junior A clubs.  Plus, 4 points in his last 5 playoff games for the Rangers and his man love AV aint bad.  If only they had more Rome

But is Tanner Glass what you want from a top 5 pick?

No one is saying don't choose players from lesser leagues at all.  People are saying don't use a top 5 pick on one. 

 

The goal of the top 5 pick is to find a core player to build around.  I would say Benn and to some extent Turris are the only 2 core building block players to come out of the BCHL and & AJHL combined in the last 18 years.  Perhaps Jost/Fabbro but they have a long way to go to prove that. 

[OptionalPants]

Reading through this thread has got me so excited for the draft. My opinion is changing page to page, and there is honestly no way that Benning could screw this up (unless he goes wayyy off the board with someone like Rasmussen). Every single player ranked around 5 brings a totally different skillset and I would be more than pleased with any of Necas, Vilardi, Makar, Lilijgren, Glass, Middlestat or Hesakainen.

[Warhippy]

42 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

But is Tanner Glass what you want from a top 5 pick?

No one is saying don't choose players from lesser leagues at all.  People are saying don't use a top 5 pick on one. 

 

The goal of the top 5 pick is to find a core player to build around.  I would say Benn and to some extent Turris are the only 2 core building block players to come out of the BCHL and & AJHL combined in the last 18 years.  Perhaps Jost/Fabbro but they have a long way to go to prove that. 

.....nobody said or suggested he was or would be a top 5 pick or that anyone in the top 5 would be a tanner glass.

 

It was a simple reference to solid or serviceable NHL players taken out of junior a leagues