The BC Real Estate Discussion Thread

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I dunno. You make good points. My guesses are stable/promising equity holding... the idea that the market will keep going up over time due to inventory shortage along with increasing rental rates. Perfect time for these deep pockets to buy outright as prices are lower.

What popped out to me is that 1 in 4 homes in the US are now corporate owned and that this trend is only in it's infancy in Canada. 

 

from what I've seen (not much) it sounds like they are good at buying cheap in distressed situations where people need to sell quickly, or just want to sell quickly. So they make money buying below market, then do as little as possible as a landlord. 

 

We'll see them more up here if people can't make their mortgage payments if interest rates go much higher and inflation continues to be really high. 

[Warhippy]

3 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

 

'A new phenomenon': Big investors eye Canada's home market, ReMax president says

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/real-estate-investment-firms-financialization-housing-1.6538087

Investment firms have become the biggest new buyers of U.S. homes — a trend that could make home ownership more difficult for average families.

The idea of big investors buying single-family homes to rent them out is "just in its infancy" in Canada, but is worth watching, according to the president of one of this country's largest real estate firms. Some advocacy groups fear families can't compete against money managers with billions in assets. 

i JUSt came to post this.

 

If you scroll back through my history, I have been screaming about how this is an issue since this thread began.

 

Corporations have no worries at all about making mortgage payments.  Corps have seen the massive year over year increases of homes.  In some markets an almost 80% increase.  They purchase these homes knowing it's a safe investment no matter what.  They can afford to buy swaths of these homes and they sit on their balance sheet like a nice cheque against a downturn.  To increase profit, they then rent these homes out at what THEY dictate it is worth; artificially increasing the markets average price per unit.  The average home owner/investor can not cope or hope to keep up so they also increase prices

 

How this works is simple

• Corp buys a home/house in an area as a tester; within 3 months the ROI is good they buy more
• Corp doesn't want static assets so they find property management companies
• Corp does an analysis of what a good ROI is in regards to renting
• Corp does nothing to upgrade home but increases price of rent
• Market sees increased rental prices, catches up to suit
• Corp has since bought dozens of homes in area and now in fact controls market prices
• Home buyers can no longer afford to purchase in an artificially raised area and now rent is unaffordable as well
• Supply must be increased but when new units hit the market a great number are purchased by investors/corps

I was SCREAMING about how evil this is and the government needs to step in and step up and make massive concessions against this or Canada's housing market will be purchased by foreign corporations faster than units can be built.  Worrying about our crown corps and essentials being bought by foreign entities is one thing.  But watching our actual homes being purchased by companies with offices in Zug while working professionals are homeless is beyond evil.

 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

i JUSt came to post this.

 

If you scroll back through my history, I have been screaming about how this is an issue since this thread began.

 

Corporations have no worries at all about making mortgage payments.  Corps have seen the massive year over year increases of homes.  In some markets an almost 80% increase.  They purchase these homes knowing it's a safe investment no matter what.  They can afford to buy swaths of these homes and they sit on their balance sheet like a nice cheque against a downturn.  To increase profit, they then rent these homes out at what THEY dictate it is worth; artificially increasing the markets average price per unit.  The average home owner/investor can not cope or hope to keep up so they also increase prices

 

How this works is simple

• Corp buys a home/house in an area as a tester; within 3 months the ROI is good they buy more
• Corp doesn't want static assets so they find property management companies
• Corp does an analysis of what a good ROI is in regards to renting
• Corp does nothing to upgrade home but increases price of rent
• Market sees increased rental prices, catches up to suit
• Corp has since bought dozens of homes in area and now in fact controls market prices
• Home buyers can no longer afford to purchase in an artificially raised area and now rent is unaffordable as well
• Supply must be increased but when new units hit the market a great number are purchased by investors/corps

I was SCREAMING about how evil this is and the government needs to step in and step up and make massive concessions against this or Canada's housing market will be purchased by foreign corporations faster than units can be built.  Worrying about our crown corps and essentials being bought by foreign entities is one thing.  But watching our actual homes being purchased by companies with offices in Zug while working professionals are homeless is beyond evil.

 

the corporation's may not even be paying interest, some of them are investment groups that can just buy homes outright. So they are vultures buying low on distressed homes, making money on rent, and making money on other investments with all that equity to leverage. They are likely making money hand over fist. 

 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

the corporation's may not even be paying interest, some of them are investment groups that can just buy homes outright. So they are vultures buying low on distressed homes, making money on rent, and making money on other investments with all that equity to leverage. They are likely making money hand over fist. 

 

They are buying homes outright.  The bigger evil is those who do not.

 

Watch the 90/10 issues

 

Corporations can come in with a 90% downpayment and take a 10% loan.  Doesn't seem like much right?

 

Well 1/4 of all US homes are now corporate owned.  What happens when corps decide to tell the lenders what they want?  What happens when one entity holding 70% of all the plotted interest payments tells the lender either do this or we'll clear our debt now and you'll lose all that money?

 

This is far more than just a housing issue.  The 90/10 is something I've been reading about and it's getting ugly.  In places like rural America where smaller state credit unions hold the largest volumes of loans, a corporation can literally dictate banking policy by holding an exorbitant amount of these types of mortgages/loans.  If a small credit union has costed in those interest payments as part of their profit for that year and a corp decides they want something done.  They'll wipe that profit off their balance sheet in a heart beat.  

 

Corps now own the US system and it is creeping in to Canada

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

They are buying homes outright.  The bigger evil is those who do not.

 

Watch the 90/10 issues

 

Corporations can come in with a 90% downpayment and take a 10% loan.  Doesn't seem like much right?

 

Well 1/4 of all US homes are now corporate owned.  What happens when corps decide to tell the lenders what they want?  What happens when one entity holding 70% of all the plotted interest payments tells the lender either do this or we'll clear our debt now and you'll lose all that money?

 

This is far more than just a housing issue.  The 90/10 is something I've been reading about and it's getting ugly.  In places like rural America where smaller state credit unions hold the largest volumes of loans, a corporation can literally dictate banking policy by holding an exorbitant amount of these types of mortgages/loans.  If a small credit union has costed in those interest payments as part of their profit for that year and a corp decides they want something done.  They'll wipe that profit off their balance sheet in a heart beat.  

 

Corps now own the US system and it is creeping in to Canada

the big banks up here will see this as a major threat if this really starts eating into their mortgage portfolios. 

 

But hey bitcoin, am I rite? 

[Warhippy]

12 minutes ago, JM_ said:

the big banks up here will see this as a major threat if this really starts eating into their mortgage portfolios. 

 

But hey bitcoin, am I rite? 

These big banks up here can't even tell who is holding what money in what offshore account.  If corps start playing, or are playing this game in Canada it's already at the point of concern

[bishopshodan]

7 hours ago, Warhippy said:

If you scroll back through my history, I have been screaming about how this is an issue since this thread began.

I thought of you when I posted this morn.

Yup, it is not a good thing at all. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Sales in July 2022 are down over 23% from June 2022.  Prices are down 2.3% from June to July 2022.  So the market has shifted big time.  Another interest rate hike in the fall should see the market slow down even further.

[Elias Pettersson]

B.C. Housing CEO retires, citing threats to his safety and systemic problems

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/b-c-housing-ceo-retires-citing-threats-to-his-safety-and-systemic-problems/ar-AA10ejLC?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8d3851e0f9124ba686d4b80900f7f94d

 

The chief executive officer of B.C. Housing has retired, saying he can no longer fix the myriad problems facing the organization and is concerned for his own safety.

 

Affordable-housing advocates said his announcement was more abrupt than they were expecting and the next CEO will face a tall set of challenges.

 

In a statement , Shayne Ramsay said “something shifted” when he saw a murder on the beach near CRAB Park back in May, then watched in horror as two people dealing with homelessness were murdered this past week.

 

Ramsay said the last straw was being mobbed last week after talking to reporters about a public hearing for proposed social housing in the Kitsilano neighbourhood, near the planned Arbutus subway stop.

 

He blamed a “small but vocal” group across B.C. who have become “increasingly angry and increasingly volatile” in their opposition to social housing — while the homeless face awful lives on the street due to a lack of adequate shelter.

 

“I no longer have confidence I can solve the complex problems facing us.”

 

Ramsay, who is 61, has been with B.C. Housing for 26 years. His last day will be Sept. 6.

 

B.C. Housing, the provincial agency that works to address homelessness and the affordability crisis through rental assistance, social housing and other programs, has been in the spotlight a lot lately.

 

“We have all noticed there is so much more vitriol in housing debates these days,” said Thom Armstrong, CEO of the Co-operative Housing Federation of B.C.

 

Armstrong said disagreements are happening at a “higher temperature than any of us can remember happening. And I think Shayne has been on the front line and been the target of a lot of it because he is responsible for the kind of corporation that’s supposed to be solving the problem. Having a new person in that chair is not going to change any of that. That will be the real challenging issue.”

 

In May, the NDP government released an 85-page report by accounting firm Ernst & Young, which examined B.C. Housing’s structure and processes since its budget has more than doubled in the last five years. It also appointed a new board chair and replaced five board members.

 

When he asked for the review of B.C. Housing in 2021, then housing minister David Eby told Postmedia  he was thinking of the botched Little Mountain project in which the previous B.C. Liberal government gave developer Holborn Properties $211 million in interest-free loans to construct market-value homes and social housing.

 

He said the previous board, which was tapped by the NDP government, was still using processes that might have been acceptable when its budget was $782 million in 2017-18 under the previous Liberal government.

 

Last week, former Vancouver planner Cameron Gray sent Postmedia his assessment of the Ernst & Young report, arguing that “in short, (it) is not the devastating critique some think it is.”

 

He pointed out the report doesn’t discuss Little Mountain and observed “it’s hard not to think that the review is the result of accountants hiring accountants to recommend more power to accountants.”

 

Jill Atkey, CEO of the B.C. Non-Profit Housing Association, said that when there’s quick growth in any organization, there is sometimes a period where systems aren’t keeping up and the audit found this.

 

However, she cautioned that “sometimes, the response to that can be we need somebody to come in and be really almost accountant-like in approach and the fear there is that you lose a bit of that creativity and the ability to seize opportunities.”

 

Atkey said Ramsay had “flexibility and latitude” and she would not want a new leader to come in without those characteristics “because we’re undergoing really rapid changes in the housing sector. And that’s going to require creativity.”

 

Murray Rankin, the acting minister of housing, said the B.C. Housing board “will immediately begin work to identify a new CEO to lead the organization into the future.”

 

Eby, who recently stepped down to run for leader of the B.C. NDP, said “Shayne is right, our province is confronted with profound and complex challenges in providing housing, and there is much more work to do.”

 

jlee-young@postmedia.com

jruttle@postmedia.com

With a file from Katie De Rosa and Dan Fumano

[JM_]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

B.C. Housing CEO retires, citing threats to his safety and systemic problems

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/b-c-housing-ceo-retires-citing-threats-to-his-safety-and-systemic-problems/ar-AA10ejLC?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8d3851e0f9124ba686d4b80900f7f94d

 

The chief executive officer of B.C. Housing has retired, saying he can no longer fix the myriad problems facing the organization and is concerned for his own safety.

 

Affordable-housing advocates said his announcement was more abrupt than they were expecting and the next CEO will face a tall set of challenges.

 

In a statement , Shayne Ramsay said “something shifted” when he saw a murder on the beach near CRAB Park back in May, then watched in horror as two people dealing with homelessness were murdered this past week.

 

Ramsay said the last straw was being mobbed last week after talking to reporters about a public hearing for proposed social housing in the Kitsilano neighbourhood, near the planned Arbutus subway stop.

 

He blamed a “small but vocal” group across B.C. who have become “increasingly angry and increasingly volatile” in their opposition to social housing — while the homeless face awful lives on the street due to a lack of adequate shelter.

 

“I no longer have confidence I can solve the complex problems facing us.”

 

Ramsay, who is 61, has been with B.C. Housing for 26 years. His last day will be Sept. 6.

 

B.C. Housing, the provincial agency that works to address homelessness and the affordability crisis through rental assistance, social housing and other programs, has been in the spotlight a lot lately.

 

“We have all noticed there is so much more vitriol in housing debates these days,” said Thom Armstrong, CEO of the Co-operative Housing Federation of B.C.

 

Armstrong said disagreements are happening at a “higher temperature than any of us can remember happening. And I think Shayne has been on the front line and been the target of a lot of it because he is responsible for the kind of corporation that’s supposed to be solving the problem. Having a new person in that chair is not going to change any of that. That will be the real challenging issue.”

 

In May, the NDP government released an 85-page report by accounting firm Ernst & Young, which examined B.C. Housing’s structure and processes since its budget has more than doubled in the last five years. It also appointed a new board chair and replaced five board members.

 

When he asked for the review of B.C. Housing in 2021, then housing minister David Eby told Postmedia  he was thinking of the botched Little Mountain project in which the previous B.C. Liberal government gave developer Holborn Properties $211 million in interest-free loans to construct market-value homes and social housing.

 

He said the previous board, which was tapped by the NDP government, was still using processes that might have been acceptable when its budget was $782 million in 2017-18 under the previous Liberal government.

 

Last week, former Vancouver planner Cameron Gray sent Postmedia his assessment of the Ernst & Young report, arguing that “in short, (it) is not the devastating critique some think it is.”

 

He pointed out the report doesn’t discuss Little Mountain and observed “it’s hard not to think that the review is the result of accountants hiring accountants to recommend more power to accountants.”

 

Jill Atkey, CEO of the B.C. Non-Profit Housing Association, said that when there’s quick growth in any organization, there is sometimes a period where systems aren’t keeping up and the audit found this.

 

However, she cautioned that “sometimes, the response to that can be we need somebody to come in and be really almost accountant-like in approach and the fear there is that you lose a bit of that creativity and the ability to seize opportunities.”

 

Atkey said Ramsay had “flexibility and latitude” and she would not want a new leader to come in without those characteristics “because we’re undergoing really rapid changes in the housing sector. And that’s going to require creativity.”

 

Murray Rankin, the acting minister of housing, said the B.C. Housing board “will immediately begin work to identify a new CEO to lead the organization into the future.”

 

Eby, who recently stepped down to run for leader of the B.C. NDP, said “Shayne is right, our province is confronted with profound and complex challenges in providing housing, and there is much more work to do.”

 

jlee-young@postmedia.com

jruttle@postmedia.com

With a file from Katie De Rosa and Dan Fumano

To me there's a couple of important things in this report. Its shows the failure of the province to have a plan, and have one they are willing to back up. When small angry mob's of NIMBY's have this much power the province needs to step in with some sort of spine to get the job done.

 

The other is the line about accountants recommending more accountants. When the bean counters are driving things thats another sure sign of a lack of leadership on an issue.

 

[Boudrias]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

To me there's a couple of important things in this report. Its shows the failure of the province to have a plan, and have one they are willing to back up. When small angry mob's of NIMBY's have this much power the province needs to step in with some sort of spine to get the job done.

 

The other is the line about accountants recommending more accountants. When the bean counters are driving things thats another sure sign of a lack of leadership on an issue.

 

Look at the reaction to the lady in Victoria who advertised for a doctor to treat her husband. She was swamped by feedback according to her CKNW interview. She was calling for a public inquiry as throwing money at the problem would likely not solve it. I think Horgan should jump on this idea. Housing and healthcare will likely be the biggest issues in the next election. 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Look at the reaction to the lady in Victoria who advertised for a doctor to treat her husband. She was swamped by feedback according to her CKNW interview. She was calling for a public inquiry as throwing money at the problem would likely not solve it. I think Horgan should jump on this idea. Housing and healthcare will likely be the biggest issues in the next election. 

Its Eby now, Horgan is out to pasture.

 

The combined effort of the NDP and Kennedy Stewart have done next to nothing on housing. IMO a big part of it is they don't know how to work with developers, or even worse, refuse to properly because of their 'principles'. 

 

The NDP will never innovate on healthcare the way it needs to be done imo, they are too union-led and that is not an innovative bunch. All they can come up with is demanding more money from the fed's, which is really frustrating because there are so many areas where the province can trim fat and innovate but they won't risk alienating their voting base. 

[ronthecivil]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

To me there's a couple of important things in this report. Its shows the failure of the province to have a plan, and have one they are willing to back up. When small angry mob's of NIMBY's have this much power the province needs to step in with some sort of spine to get the job done.

 

The other is the line about accountants recommending more accountants. When the bean counters are driving things thats another sure sign of a lack of leadership on an issue.

 

I have some bad news for you. The bean counters run EVERYTHING!

 

Leaders give a vision. The accountants try to determine the cost of the vision. They have a funny discussion. Then it goes to the implementers (me) who try desperately to implement something within the cost. The cost runs everything. If what you implement gets the vision at least kind of done then everyone "wins". 

 

This is why everything is kinda of working but not really. 

 

This applies to EVERYTHING. Every government initiative Every corporation.  Even your own life. When you do everything you can to put some logic to your life while at the same time keeping revenue Canada happy, doing everything you can to minimize taxes while being compliant, while doing something like buying an EV to take advantage of the tax credits not because it applies to the federal or provincial vision, but because you can afford it, only to realize their are none for sale, so you end up buying a cheap gas car on a short wait list, and figure to just put the extra money into an RRSP, your gaming the system like an implementer.

 

The leaders have a vision. The accountants control the gates and screw things down. The rest of use try our best to game the system as best we can to try to get things done against the illogical and uncompromising accountants.

 

If you want perfect results, you hire a computer. If you want results that can go wrong, but also broker opportunity, you hire a human.

 

The computers are in charge. If something goes wrong, they blame the humans for mucking up the programmed vision.

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

I have some bad news for you. The bean counters run EVERYTHING!

 

Leaders give a vision. The accountants try to determine the cost of the vision. They have a funny discussion. Then it goes to the implementers (me) who try desperately to implement something within the cost. The cost runs everything. If what you implement gets the vision at least kind of done then everyone "wins". 

 

This is why everything is kinda of working but not really. 

 

This applies to EVERYTHING. Every government initiative Every corporation.  Even your own life. When you do everything you can to put some logic to your life while at the same time keeping revenue Canada happy, doing everything you can to minimize taxes while being compliant, while doing something like buying an EV to take advantage of the tax credits not because it applies to the federal or provincial vision, but because you can afford it, only to realize their are none for sale, so you end up buying a cheap gas car on a short wait list, and figure to just put the extra money into an RRSP, your gaming the system like an implementer.

 

The leaders have a vision. The accountants control the gates and screw things down. The rest of use try our best to game the system as best we can to try to get things done against the illogical and uncompromising accountants.

 

If you want perfect results, you hire a computer. If you want results that can go wrong, but also broker opportunity, you hire a human.

 

The computers are in charge. If something goes wrong, they blame the humans for mucking up the programmed vision.

nope its actually the deputy ministers that run it all in gov't. The bean counters are their evil henchmen.

 

When gov't starts letting the bean counters set policy, thats when things go off the rails.

[ronthecivil]

5 hours ago, JM_ said:

nope its actually the deputy ministers that run it all in gov't. The bean counters are their evil henchmen.

 

When gov't starts letting the bean counters set policy, thats when things go off the rails.

The border between leadership, the bean counters, and the implementers, is well, hazy. Sometimes when your right on the border you feel kind of like both.

 

Why do you think I know so much about each one?

[ronthecivil]

On 8/3/2022 at 9:17 AM, Warhippy said:

They are buying homes outright.  The bigger evil is those who do not.

 

Watch the 90/10 issues

 

Corporations can come in with a 90% downpayment and take a 10% loan.  Doesn't seem like much right?

 

Well 1/4 of all US homes are now corporate owned.  What happens when corps decide to tell the lenders what they want?  What happens when one entity holding 70% of all the plotted interest payments tells the lender either do this or we'll clear our debt now and you'll lose all that money?

 

This is far more than just a housing issue.  The 90/10 is something I've been reading about and it's getting ugly.  In places like rural America where smaller state credit unions hold the largest volumes of loans, a corporation can literally dictate banking policy by holding an exorbitant amount of these types of mortgages/loans.  If a small credit union has costed in those interest payments as part of their profit for that year and a corp decides they want something done.  They'll wipe that profit off their balance sheet in a heart beat.  

 

Corps now own the US system and it is creeping in to Canada

Well I understand your hate of corporations they are by definition evil and only interested in money. Anything nice is part of the marketing department even if it is important for shareholder relations. But if they become incompetent and financially stupid, they go out of business, and cease to exist, only to be taken over by someone else who can do a better job.

 

Government on the other hand is usually in with, well, let's say reasonable intentions, and is simply trying to do what, in it's ideals, is best. But when they screw up and run up to the costs, it's hard to purge that from the system.

 

So why I understand no liking tons of single family homes being bought up by Omnicorp, (not that I will ever afford one now thanks to incompetent government policy anyways) is not in your flavour, let's look at large government housing projects in other countries.

 

In the US, it's the famous government PROJECTS that are now the source of the worst neighborhoods in the US.  If you try to fix it, your guilty of gentrification.

 

In the UK, it's the tenemants that have been around for so long that it's made it's own culture, represented by the Chav, that's is increasing taking over larger parts of the country.

 

I personally prefer Omni corp. Or better yet, good policy to increase the amount of housing, keep interest rates and tax policy in a place that makes speculation less of a financial home run at the expense of new buyers, encourage the formation of purpose built rental housing at reasonable rates for the very young and the very hold, makes a single family home achievable for a family with kids (aka the people that need them).

 

In other words, I want the government to have great, free market policies that greatly increase the amount of housing, and housing choice, available. It can be built by Bob's construction, his rival over at Franks construction corp, or Omni corp. If they fail they go bankrupt. But make it an environment where they are all working as hard as they can at it instead of all getting to know each other in yet another lineup at city hall.....

 

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, ronthecivil said:

The border between leadership, the bean counters, and the implementers, is well, hazy. Sometimes when your right on the border you feel kind of like both.

 

Why do you think I know so much about each one?

you like punishment? 

[ronthecivil]

19 hours ago, JM_ said:

you like punishment? 

I hang out on purprose dont't I?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:01 PM, ronthecivil said:

The border between leadership, the bean counters, and the implementers, is well, hazy. Sometimes when your right on the border you feel kind of like both.

 

Why do you think I know so much about each one?

OT - how does that old bean counter joke go???

 

"An actuary is profession accountants go to when they have no personality".

[bishopshodan]

I usually just pay attention to the BC market but I found some of this Ottawa realtors points interesting.

 

 

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-realtor-addresses-five-current-myths-with-the-housing-market-1.6016111

 

"While sales are down compared to last year, it's important to put the last year into context - 2021 was the best year for real estate, setting both sales and price records," Bennett says.

"So, a comparison to the best year on record is like comparing an NHLers season stats to Wayne Gretzky's best year - it's not going to look very successful.  But when you pull back and take a broader look, we are currently on the same pace as we were in 2019 - the third best year on record."