[Proposal] Montreal LS Top 4 - Edler for picks?

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

If Edler was in his last year of his contract.... maybe MTL would be interested. But I just don't see them taking on 5 mil for 2 more seasons after this one. It would also be an admission of a shift to not being competitive and more emphasis on rebuilding, and I'm not sure if mgmt is quite ready to admit that one just yet.

But then consider:

Markov: 37 yrs, & summer UFA

Emelin: hard-hitting, but O-challenged & oft-injured

 

Edler could help them 'bridge' to when their LH-D youngins are better-prepared. The timeline could fit like a glove.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

Which is why they don't trade him. Moving Gallagher for Edler creates a much bigger hole on Montreal than it fills. 

Based on trades that have happened in the last year, there are no absolutes in this league anymore.

[qwijibo]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Based on trades that have happened in the last year, there are no absolutes in this league anymore.

No. but there are likelyhoods. Gallagher is part of Montreals young core and is a spark plug for their offence. He's also loved by the coach, gm and fans. There are very few players in the league that bring what he does. The only way he gets moved is in a blockbuster. Trading for a marginal upgrade on defence isn't going to make it happen 

[qwijibo]

18 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

But then consider:

Markov: 37 yrs, & summer UFA

Emelin: hard-hitting, but O-challenged & oft-injured

 

Edler could help them 'bridge' to when their LH-D youngins are better-prepared. The timeline could fit like a glove.

It's funny that you bring up often injured when describing Emelin (which is accurate) but ignore it when discussing Edler. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Just now, qwijibo said:

It's funny that you bring up often injured when describing Emelin (which is accurate) but ignore it when discussing Edler. 

So the premise would be they try to get through with all these guys contributing? Agree tho, after the run-in with Benn, Eddy's had some issues.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

No. but there are likelyhoods. Gallagher is part of Montreals young core and is a spark plug for their offence. He's also loved by the coach, gm and fans. There are very few players in the league that bring what he does. The only way he gets moved is in a blockbuster. Trading for a marginal upgrade on defence isn't going to make it happen 

Likelihoods are assumptions based on averages.

[qwijibo]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Likelihoods are assumptions based on averages.

The fact remains that Gallagher is close to untouchable and Vancouver doesn't have a piece attractive enough to change that. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

The fact remains that Gallagher is close to untouchable and Vancouver doesn't have a piece attractive enough to change that. 

And Subban was considered for sainthood in Montreal at one point. Untouchable is a moot point in the NHL.

[qwijibo]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

And Subban was considered for sainthood in Montreal at one point. Untouchable is a moot point in the NHL.

There was a lot more going on with Subban. That was a trade because of personalities. And they got a superstar in return. Vancouver doesn't have a piece to entice Montreal into  a player they have no interest in moving. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

If Gallagher came this way, I'd assume they'd demand Honey Badger included(say, Edler package)...?

 

Other pieces, of course

[JM_]

35 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

But then consider:

Markov: 37 yrs, & summer UFA

Emelin: hard-hitting, but O-challenged & oft-injured

 

Edler could help them 'bridge' to when their LH-D youngins are better-prepared. The timeline could fit like a glove.

 

Good points... well, maybe! I'd much prefer to lose Edler than Tanev.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Just now, S'all Good Man said:

 

Good points... well, maybe! I'd much prefer to lose Edler than Tanev.

They've both been pretty good soldiers, but you're prob bang-on with that assessment.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

There was a lot more going on with Subban. That was a trade because of personalities. And they got a superstar in return. Vancouver doesn't have a piece to entice Montreal into  a player they have no interest in moving. 

That would be the rumour, but according to Bergevin they wanted Weber's presence and leadership to help stabilize the defense, as they felt Subban's offensive explosiveness wasn't enough to mask his defensive deficiencies.

 

Gallagher is a great piece of Montreal's core going forward, no doubt. Whether he's untouchable is debatable, especially after what occurred with Subban (regardless of cause).

 

Edler by himself wouldn't return a Gallagher, I agree, but Edler's worth on the trade market is still above average.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That would be the rumour, but according to Bergevin they wanted Weber's presence and leadership to help stabilize the defense, as they felt Subban's offensive explosiveness wasn't enough to mask his defensive deficiencies.

 

Gallagher is a great piece of Montreal's core going forward, no doubt. Whether he's untouchable is debatable, especially after what occurred with Subban (regardless of cause).

 

Edler by himself wouldn't return a Gallagher, I agree, but Edler's worth on the trade market is still above average.

I just wanna say.  if a top 2 defenceman on most teams in the league (no matter what you kids say he's an awesome #2 supporting or elite #3-4) cannot net a 5 foot 9; 188 pound 43 point per season average winger (so far) while still being under moderate contract for this and next season in a 1-1 deal

 

Than either you guys hate Edler and cannot see his worth, or over value the return on said player.

 

If Edler hits the market he's got serious value no matter what this forum says.

 

It might JUST be me, but if Edler couldn't net a Gallagher in a 1-1 deal than I'd walk and enjoy the bounty elsewhere which would most likely be far more lucrative than simply Gallagher.

 

And sorry Qwijibo, I know you've some bias here; but that's my opinion.  There's no WAY Edler has less value than Russel did last season.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I just wanna say.  if a top 2 defenceman on most teams in the league (no matter what you kids say he's an awesome #2 supporting or elite #3-4) cannot net a 5 foot 9; 188 pound 43 point per season average winger (so far) while still being under moderate contract for this and next season in a 1-1 deal

 

Than either you guys hate Edler and cannot see his worth, or over value the return on said player.

 

If Edler hits the market he's got serious value no matter what this forum says.

 

It might JUST be me, but if Edler couldn't net a Gallagher in a 1-1 deal than I'd walk and enjoy the bounty elsewhere which would most likely be far more lucrative than simply Gallagher.

 

And sorry Qwijibo, I know you've some bias here; but that's my opinion.  There's no WAY Edler has less value than Russel did last season.

The only reason I can't see Edler netting Gallagher in return is the fact that Edler is now 31. Outside of the age factor, most teams would be offering an enticing package to get a defenseman of Edler's caliber (regardless of his mental lapses.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The only reason I can't see Edler netting Gallagher in return is the fact that Edler is now 31. Outside of the age factor, most teams would be offering an enticing package to get a defenseman of Edler's caliber (regardless of his mental lapses.

I agree.

 

IMO there's a far better return than Gallagher available for a D man of his caliber.  31?  Pfft in D man age that's very young.

 

The hate he gets on these boards is ridiculous.

 

Imagine he DID get traded just for Gallagher, the amount of crying from those same people that malign him over quality return would be deafening.  Drowned out only by their whining when our numbers took an even further dive without him

[qwijibo]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I just wanna say.  if a top 2 defenceman on most teams in the league (no matter what you kids say he's an awesome #2 supporting or elite #3-4) cannot net a 5 foot 9; 188 pound 43 point per season average winger (so far) while still being under moderate contract for this and next season in a 1-1 deal

 

Than either you guys hate Edler and cannot see his worth, or over value the return on said player.

 

If Edler hits the market he's got serious value no matter what this forum says.

 

It might JUST be me, but if Edler couldn't net a Gallagher in a 1-1 deal than I'd walk and enjoy the bounty elsewhere which would most likely be far more lucrative than simply Gallagher.

 

And sorry Qwijibo, I know you've some bias here; but that's my opinion.  There's no WAY Edler has less value than Russel did last season.

My point is gallagher is an important part of their core and Edler would be a marginal upgrade on Emelin. Player value in a vaccumm is a different story. But a Gallagher for Edler trade creates a bigger hole than it fills on a team that's poised to do some damage. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

My point is gallagher is an important part of their core and Edler would be a marginal upgrade on Emelin. Player value in a vaccumm is a different story. But a Gallagher for Edler trade creates a bigger hole than it fills on a team that's poised to do some damage. 

Edler is a far greater upgrade on Emelin. A pairing of Edler and Weber would be the stuff of nightmares for the smaller Eastern teams. Both are big bodied defensemen who are positionally sound, and both have rockets from the point, with Weber's being a tad harder than Edler's. I'd hate to be the team seeing those two setting up on the points for powerplay.

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

My point is gallagher is an important part of their core and Edler would be a marginal upgrade on Emelin. Player value in a vaccumm is a different story. But a Gallagher for Edler trade creates a bigger hole than it fills on a team that's poised to do some damage. 

See that I would agree with.  MTL doesn't have the necessary forward to compliment or fill in the loss of Gallagher.  For us he's not enough of a return.  Gallagher is a non starter.

 

Edler certainly helps MTL no question, but it starts with their 1st and then it's the throw in of Juulsen/McCarron etc to even it out.

 

I just don't see the trade with MTL from either teams' perspective.  

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I agree.

 

IMO there's a far better return than Gallagher available for a D man of his caliber.  31?  Pfft in D man age that's very young.

 

The hate he gets on these boards is ridiculous.

 

Imagine he DID get traded just for Gallagher, the amount of crying from those same people that malign him over quality return would be deafening.  Drowned out only by their whining when our numbers took an even further dive without him

I was ready to crucify him after the game against Chicago where he was woefully underperforming, but after reading some of the other PGT comments it was duly pointed out, by DownUndaCanuck, that Edler was playing way too much during that game, and that he was spent.

 

Considering how the defense has been constructed now, Desjardins should have spread out the minutes more between the other two pairings, and he would have got more out of Edler, without Tortsing him to death on the ice.