Nikolay Goldobin | LW/RW

[aGENT]

54 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I wouldn't want to see him hit ufa status.  I say we sign him without a clause, and try to move him at next year's deadline.

Even unsigned, as an RFA, he'd still have loads of value this summer as well. Just saying...

 

 

[kloubek]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Even unsigned, as an RFA, he'd still have loads of value this summer as well. Just saying...

 

 

True enough.  My mentality is that next season I figure we're going to need his 50+ points.  It's up in the air if the Sedins will re-sign, and Vanek is already gone and although he MAY come back, the situation is rather fluid there.  If we lose the Sedins, Vanek, AND Baertschi, we are sure to be the lowest scoring team in the league and the season will be lost before it begins.  Given this scenario, even if we have a couple of young guys step in like Gaudette (probably), Dahlin or Pettersson (unlikely imo) then we will really need his scoring for one more year until the aforementioned guys are ready, along with Lind, Gadjovich and company.

[-AJ-]

7 minutes ago, kloubek said:

True enough.  My mentality is that next season I figure we're going to need his 50+ points.  It's up in the air if the Sedins will re-sign, and Vanek is already gone and although he MAY come back, the situation is rather fluid there.  If we lose the Sedins, Vanek, AND Baertschi, we are sure to be the lowest scoring team in the league and the season will be lost before it begins.  Given this scenario, even if we have a couple of young guys step in like Gaudette (probably), Dahlin or Pettersson (unlikely imo) then we will really need his scoring for one more year until the aforementioned guys are ready, along with Lind, Gadjovich and company.

A valid point, though Sven has yet to score at a 50+ point rate for a season. At this point, he's more like a 45-point guy. Still, if the twins leave and Vanek doesn't return, you're probably right in that we will have a severe dearth of offensive firepower unless Pettersson or someone else really steps up. We're already weak in net and on defense, so a lack of offense might just push us to the very bottom of the league. It's almost safer to hold on to Sven until we're certain his offense can be replaced by Pettersson, Goldobin, or someone else.

[aGENT]

Just now, kloubek said:

True enough.  My mentality is that next season I figure we're going to need his 50+ points.  It's up in the air if the Sedins will re-sign, and Vanek is already gone and although he MAY come back, the situation is rather fluid there.  If we lose the Sedins, Vanek, AND Baertschi, we are sure to be the lowest scoring team in the league and the season will be lost before it begins.  Given this scenario, even if we have a couple of young guys step in like Gaudette (probably), Dahlin or Pettersson (unlikely imo) then we will really need his scoring for one more year until the aforementioned guys are ready, along with Lind, Gadjovich and company.

I think Leip and Goldy likely cover some of that as does Gaudette and maybe Pettersson as possibilities. And that's without targeting a guy like Kane in free agency.

 

Even without those guys you mention, in no particular order:

 

Horvat

Boeser

Sutter

Granlund

Eriksson

Leip

Gagner

Virtanen

Gaunce

Gaudette

Goldobin

 

That's 11 of 12 starting spots (Archibald, a PTO or a UFA etc likely to be 13th) without Sedins, Baer or Vanek. From there you've got Pettersson, Dahlen etc likely pushing for spots and the possibility of the twins being back never mind a UFA.

 

That's certainly no cup favourite lineup (and anyone expecting such... ) but it's perfectly capable (and a heck of a lot faster). Points or otherwise, we're running out of roster room fast without some movement. IMO, Baer is likely some of that movement.

[Boudrias]

11 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

A valid point, though Sven has yet to score at a 50+ point rate for a season. At this point, he's more like a 45-point guy. Still, if the twins leave and Vanek doesn't return, you're probably right in that we will have a severe dearth of offensive firepower unless Pettersson or someone else really steps up. We're already weak in net and on defense, so a lack of offense might just push us to the very bottom of the league. It's almost safer to hold on to Sven until we're certain his offense can be replaced by Pettersson, Goldobin, or someone else.

Give Baer the same PP TOI on the same Ozone starts and then talk about ppg comparisons. 

[-AJ-]

2 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Give Baer the same PP TOI on the same Ozone starts and then talk about ppg comparisons. 

The same PP time and Ozone starts as who?

[Boudrias]

Just now, -AJ- said:

The same PP time and Ozone starts as who?

Twins. 

[-AJ-]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

Twins. 

Yeah, that would probably make a pretty vast difference.

[kloubek]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think Leip and Goldy likely cover some of that as does Gaudette and maybe Pettersson as possibilities. And that's without targeting a guy like Kane in free agency.

 

Even without those guys you mention, in no particular order:

 

Horvat

Boeser

Sutter

Granlund

Eriksson

Leip

Gagner

Virtanen

Gaunce

Gaudette

Goldobin

 

That's 11 of 12 starting spots (Archibald, a PTO or a UFA etc likely to be 13th) without Sedins, Baer or Vanek. From there you've got Pettersson, Dahlen etc likely pushing for spots and the possibility of the twins being back never mind a UFA.

 

That's certainly no cup favourite lineup (and anyone expecting such... ) but it's perfectly capable (and a heck of a lot faster). Points or otherwise, we're running out of roster room fast without some movement. IMO, Baer is likely some of that movement.

Goldobin has been a slow developer, and though he will need ice time next season to prove himself, he hasn't done so yet.  Either has Leipsic, for that matter.  Both COULD really break out, but they may not. Gaudette should be on the team given a good showing, but he's a toss-up as well as far as production is concerned.  Pettersson and Dahlen are possible players and producers for next year, but I'm not holding my breath as they are both from overseas and could use time adjusting to the NHL-like game in the AHL.  Besides that, Pettersson in particular could use more bulk to withstand the rigors of the NHL, imo.  So yes, there is potential there, but even if all somehow squeezed onto the team it still doesn't make up those points.

 

Man, you really have man-love for Kane don't you?  Who knows... anything can happen.  But at least if Benning did that, we know he'd be able to replaced Baertschi's points and add a little snarl.

[Alflives]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think Leip and Goldy likely cover some of that as does Gaudette and maybe Pettersson as possibilities. And that's without targeting a guy like Kane in free agency.

 

Even without those guys you mention, in no particular order:

 

Horvat

Boeser

Sutter

Granlund

Eriksson

Leip

Gagner

Virtanen

Gaunce

Gaudette

Goldobin

 

That's 11 of 12 starting spots (Archibald, a PTO or a UFA etc likely to be 13th) without Sedins, Baer or Vanek. From there you've got Pettersson, Dahlen etc likely pushing for spots and the possibility of the twins being back never mind a UFA.

 

That's certainly no cup favourite lineup (and anyone expecting such... ) but it's perfectly capable (and a heck of a lot faster). Points or otherwise, we're running out of roster room fast without some movement. IMO, Baer is likely some of that movement.

If Pettersson comes as advertised, and we resign the 

Twins, who gets cut?  I think Gaunce, Granlund, and Goldy might be the guys out.  I’d rather see Gagner traded, but is his contract tradable?  

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Goldobin has been a slow developer, and though he will need ice time next season to prove himself, he hasn't done so yet.  Either has Leipsic, for that matter.  Both COULD really break out, but they may not. Gaudette should be on the team given a good showing, but he's a toss-up as well as far as production is concerned.  Pettersson and Dahlen are possible players and producers for next year, but I'm not holding my breath as they are both from overseas and could use time adjusting to the NHL-like game in the AHL.  Besides that, Pettersson in particular could use more bulk to withstand the rigors of the NHL, imo.  So yes, there is potential there, but even if all somehow squeezed onto the team it still doesn't make up those points.

 

Man, you really have man-love for Kane don't you?  Who knows... anything can happen.  But at least if Benning did that, we know he'd be able to replaced Baertschi's points and add a little snarl.

That's what these last 20'ish games are for. Give them a leg up on a spot for next year and maybe force some moves. And even then, there's no reason we couldn't move Baer next fall or later either if it's still unclear in the summer. Eventually though, he becomes expendable IMO and it's likely sooner than later.

 

Neither Pettersson or Dahlen accounted for those 11 spots.

 

Kane is the three things this team is trying to become. Younger, faster, harder to play against. He also represents a skill set utterly lacking in our top 6 or prospect pool. I also think he comes 'relatively' cheap and shorter term given his history, rep etc.

 

And as for those points, other guys will get more opportunity if the Sedins are in fact gone. Guys fill the gap as they always do on pretty much every team. Another 5'ish points each from our top 5 offensive players is hardly a stretch. There's 25'ish points right there. Add in the new guys with even conservative figures (20-30 points) and it's not far off. Sign a guy like Kane and we might actually be further ahead.

 

Never mind that I'm not particularly concerned about points. I'm far more concerned about how we play, kids progressing etc than how much we score or win (though clearly getting points is part of 'playing the right way').

 

 

[kloubek]

27 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That's what these last 20'ish games are for. Give them a leg up on a spot for next year and maybe force some moves. And even then, there's no reason we couldn't move Baer next fall or later either if it's still unclear in the summer. Eventually though, he becomes expendable IMO and it's likely sooner than later.

 

Neither Pettersson or Dahlen accounted for those 11 spots.

 

Kane is the three things this team is trying to become. Younger, faster, harder to play against. He also represents a skill set utterly lacking in our top 6 or prospect pool. I also think he comes 'relatively' cheap and shorter term given his history, rep etc.

 

And as for those points, other guys will get more opportunity if the Sedins are in fact gone. Guys fill the gap as they always do on pretty much every team. Another 5'ish points each from our top 5 offensive players is hardly a stretch. There's 25'ish points right there. Add in the new guys with even conservative figures (20-30 points) and it's not far off. Sign a guy like Kane and we might actually be further ahead.

 

Never mind that I'm not particularly concerned about points. I'm far more concerned about how we play, kids progressing etc than how much we score or win (though clearly getting points is part of 'playing the right way').

Well, in defense of your desired direction, the Sedins really ARE a liability.  When they cough up the puck they are just too slow to do anything about it.  While they might be 2-3 in scoring, they are also 2-3 in minus.  While the minus stat is just as much a team game stat as it is an individual stat, I'd say that says something considering they aren't part of the PK, and get most of their starts in the offensive zone.

 

I dunno - I don't really see how we would make it up, but it might not be as bad as I anticipate.  Especially if we have young guys who can step it up.  If Pettersson actually did manage to make the team in this first year, I actually COULD see a Boeseresque scenario there. To a lesser degree, Dahlen as well.  And if Gaudette does as well as many on here seem to think he will (I'm not necessarily one of them), then we could be ok.

 

With all this said, does anyone REALLY think the Sedins will retire next season?  I'm inclined to say we're going to have them for one last year.

Edited March 2, 2018 by kloubek

[aGENT]

36 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I dunno - I don't really see how we would make it up, but it might not be as bad as I anticipate.  Especially if we have young guys who can step it up.  If Pettersson actually did manage to make the team in this first year, I actually COULD see a Boeseresque scenario there. To a lesser degree, Dahlen as well.  And if Gaudette does as well as many on here seem to think he will (I'm not necessarily one of them), then we could be ok.

 

With all this said, does anyone REALLY think the Sedins will retire next season?  I'm inclined to say we're going to have them for one last year.

Well like  I said, It's not out of the question that the rest of the existing team picks up 25+/- points (conservatively) simply by virtue of more opportunity (more ozone starts, PP time etc) currently being eaten up by the twins. There's plenty of historical evidence on many teams for this.

 

Whomever of Goldobin/Pettersson/Dahlen earns that spot is likely good for 30-40, again conservatively and Gaudette's probably good for 20 +/- (less as he'll probably start in a more depth/2way role with less ozone starts, opportunity etc, though I could see him on PP2). Again, conservatively. 

 

Swap Kane in for Baer in that 12th spot and voila, we're at worst roughly even and at best, likely ahead of the game.

 

Hard to say what they do. Given the moves the Canucks are making though it certainly appears they're planning for a future without them (which is the correct and prudent thing to assume IMO). That's not to say that I think they won't or shouldn't be back but the Canucks need to plan as though they aren't, in case they don't.

 

But based on my 11 player list and management's comments about adding prospects and UFA's this summer, there's certainly not a lot of room for Sedins without making some other moves. 

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Horvat

Boeser

Sutter

Granlund

Eriksson

Leip

Gagner

Virtanen

Gaunce

Gaudette

Goldobin

To even fit them in that ^^ lineup Baer (or Goldobin) would have to be moved and Gaudette in Utica. Sure you can say Gagner too but his trade value is minimal and he's a harder move for many reasons.

 

Maybe you only have to do one of those if you plan on rotating Gagner/Virtanen/Goldobin/Gaudette/Gaunce as 13th instead of a guy like Archibald. But that's less ideal and likely IMO.

 

And this is all without signing the UFA they already stated they would be looking for.

 

It's also why I'm a fan of the 'Mike Fisher-esque' plan to possibly parachute them in mid-season once we run in to injuries and/or kids skuffle. (If we're re-signing them at all/they're not retiring).

Edited March 2, 2018 by aGENT

[aGENT]

40 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Unless Eriksson is needed for babysitting mentorship duty for the two Swedish young'uns.

Going to have to be a LOT of moves to fit them in next fall:

 

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

In no particular order:

 

Horvat

Boeser

Sutter

Granlund

Eriksson

Leip

Gagner

Virtanen

Gaunce

Gaudette

Goldobin

 

That's 11 of 12 starting spots (Archibald, a PTO or a UFA etc likely to be 13th) without Sedins, Baer or Vanek. From there you've got Pettersson, Dahlen etc likely pushing for spots and the possibility of the twins being back never mind a UFA.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by aGENT

[Wilbur]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Going to have to be a LOT of moves to fit them in next fall:

 

 

I like how people fawn over the Leafs rebuild.  I wonder what people here would think if Gagner and Eriksson were sent to a Canuck version of Robidas Island.  It's totally unethical and I'm not suggesting the Canucks should do this, but it would make roster problems go away.

[Gaudette Celly]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Going to have to be a LOT of moves to fit them in next fall:

Been saying that exact thing all year, which is why I don't think the Sedins will return (or can return).  That in addition to Linden/Benning both saying they plan to sign UFAs, and also indicating that out of the 5-6 kids to get pro contracts this year at least 1 or 2 should make it.  If the Sedins return and there haven't been moves, it's a replay of this season and even if they wanted to do that I don't think politically they could.

 

"Well we just thought that none of our young players were ready so we're just going to keep them developing and go with the Sedins again so basically the same lineup as last year that got us another bottom-4 finish.  It should be an exciting year for our fans."

 

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-O.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said:

Been saying that exact thing all year, which is why I don't think the Sedins will return (or can return).  That in addition to Linden/Benning both saying they plan to sign UFAs, and also indicating that out of the 5-6 kids to get pro contracts this year at least 1 or 2 should make it.  If the Sedins return and there haven't been moves, it's a replay of this season and even if they wanted to do that I don't think politically they could.

 

"Well we just thought that none of our young players were ready so we're just going to keep them developing and go with the Sedins again so basically the same lineup as last year that got us another bottom-4 finish.  It should be an exciting year for our fans."

 

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-O.

I hear what you’re saying, but where is the draft in 2019?  Maybe management (secretly) wants a rinse and repeat of these past couple seasons?  

[samurai]

7 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Been saying that exact thing all year, which is why I don't think the Sedins will return (or can return).  That in addition to Linden/Benning both saying they plan to sign UFAs, and also indicating that out of the 5-6 kids to get pro contracts this year at least 1 or 2 should make it.  If the Sedins return and there haven't been moves, it's a replay of this season and even if they wanted to do that I don't think politically they could.

 

"Well we just thought that none of our young players were ready so we're just going to keep them developing and go with the Sedins again so basically the same lineup as last year that got us another bottom-4 finish.  It should be an exciting year for our fans."

 

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn-O.

The Sedins will be back for another year - just look at Daniel right now.  I am not saying this is a good or bad thing, but the evidence seems to say so.  The canucks will of course never say no, so the can't return is a non-starter.  My own preference would be to not have them back.  But lets see who things go with this last 20.

 

These last 20 games are going to give you a very good picture of who Van is going to keep or potentially move.  This is a huge evaluation period which is not good for someone like Gaunce.   Guys like Horvat, Boeser  are for sure locks but everyone else should be thinking about their job.  Motte and Lipper seem to understand that this is a grade A chance for them.   This is going to be an exciting final games for us to see who is going to be on the team next year.  Watching Lipper the other night you start thinking well if he can bring that then do we need Sven?

 

As for Goldy everyone seems to know his problems (see Archie mic'd up) except him.   I personally don't think you can teach a guy like Goldy to play well away from the puck and to have the work ethic to go and get it.   I am skeptical of him - but would love to be wrong.   

[Boudrias]

Goldy is losing his opportunity. He makes some nice passes but IMHO he has to make plays directly to the net more. Sounds easy but Goldy does not show enough physical ability or enough skating speed to be more than a disher. 

[aGENT]

21 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Goldy is losing his opportunity. He makes some nice passes but IMHO he has to make plays directly to the net more. Sounds easy but Goldy does not show enough physical ability or enough skating speed to be more than a disher. 

Yeah, it looked like he'd finally turned the corner there for a week or so and then he regressed. He's still got some time with all these injuries for the last chunk of this season but that boy needs to wake up and smell the opportunity sitting there for him on a silver platter.