Baggins Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 2017-03-15 at 4:12 PM, TheGuardian_ said: It is not uncommon, there have more than many times the Nucks drafted 4 or more players that made the NHL, a lot went on to very lengthy careers. Even though he drafted those named players in his opinion most were not good enough to play in the NHL on his team hence he traded away McCann and Forsling. So really only 2 can be counted. 3 when Demko gets his first cup of coffee. Forsling was traded for a guy closer to NHL ready. McCann was traded for an a young NHL veteran. Trading players isn't an indication you don't believe they can play in the NHlL, they're simply assets moved to get something you need. All these guys are scouted even after being drafted. So why would teams bother trading for players they don't believe can play in the NHL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I actually like this year's roster so far, but some of them are playing under the wrong system (re being held back). If you let players loose like Goldy and Baer, you may see them soar offensively- Baer is already doing a decnt job right now. Granlund is lucky to have production with the Sedins and perhaps should stay with the Sedins next year in order for the twins to stay relevant. I worry about players like Dahlen coming into Willie's system and he may take a long time to develop, or he may catch on quick. But that may change if Willie is no longer the Canucks coach this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 9 hours ago, Baggins said: Forsling was traded for a guy closer to NHL ready. McCann was traded for an a young NHL veteran. Trading players isn't an indication you don't believe they can play in the NHlL, they're simply assets moved to get something you need. All these guys are scouted even after being drafted. So why would teams bother trading for players they don't believe can play in the NHL? Benning got fleeced in the Forsling/Clendening deal. I think that much is obvious. The McCann deal was a high price but a far more reasonable trade for something the team needed. The whole strategy of trading waiver ineligible players/picks for waiver eligible ones was largely a failure. Baertschi and Granlund worked out. None of the other ones, Clendening, Vey, Etem, Pedan, etc really have. I am happy that Benning has moved on from that strategy as it has cost us a lot of picks and players that ended up not being re-signed or waived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 He certainly has the potential to be one of the best. Still too early to judge since we have to wait for the payoff. So far, the approach looks more like a group of emerging young talent all coming up together into their prime. At this point, I'm not sure we'll see the wheeling and dealing in the draft like we did with Bure or the Sedins. Who knows. We may see that but I'm not sure. It doesn't look like Benning's banking the future on one or two superstars. Seems more calculated/focused on specific needs and depth roles, with high caliber talent spread across the entire roster. Looks like our success will come from the totality of talent and a high-talent foundation. Our stars will organically emerge from the group. If we need more, I think this approach makes it easier to acquire a couple higher-end pieces and drop them into an already high-talent foundation. And the more I think about it, I don't think Benning's so concerned with gunning for #1, 2, or 3 in the draft. I think he's open to all options but it looks like he's more focused on getting the most out of picks beyond the Top 5 so that a potential #1, 2, or 3 from the lottery will only elevate the team even more. This is where his eye for talent really comes into play. But just looking at the past 2.5 years, it's remarkable what he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Baggins said: Forsling was traded for a guy closer to NHL ready. McCann was traded for an a young NHL veteran. Trading players isn't an indication you don't believe they can play in the NHlL, they're simply assets moved to get something you need. All these guys are scouted even after being drafted. So why would teams bother trading for players they don't believe can play in the NHL? Garrison was traded for ??? He was only 29 when traded, had a very reasonable cap hit, was playing top 2/3 on Tampa, would have been excellent trade bait at TDL or draft. McCann for.....well that is still to be determined, but it will be expensive to find out. How many picks did the team have last year after the 1rst round? Players vs roster spots. Quantity vs Quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Benning got fleeced in the Forsling/Clendening deal. I think that much is obvious. The McCann deal was a high price but a far more reasonable trade for something the team needed. The whole strategy of trading waiver ineligible players/picks for waiver eligible ones was largely a failure. Baertschi and Granlund worked out. None of the other ones, Clendening, Vey, Etem, Pedan, etc really have. I am happy that Benning has moved on from that strategy as it has cost us a lot of picks and players that ended up not being re-signed or waived. You won't win with every prospect. But Clendening was part of becoming Sutter. Don't have a problem with that. But about that fleecing.... 16/17 Clendening - 27 gp 10 pts 16/17 Forsling - 23gp 6 pts Where's the fleecing in that deal??? Just keep pulling crap out of that butt. It's truly impressive just how much is in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said: Garrison was traded for ??? He was only 29 when traded, had a very reasonable cap hit, was playing top 2/3 on Tampa, would have been excellent trade bait at TDL or draft. McCann for.....well that is still to be determined, but it will be expensive to find out. How many picks did the team have last year after the 1rst round? Players vs roster spots. Quantity vs Quality. You guys are bipolar. Move the older players...wait you moved an older player! Trade for picks....wait you traded Garrison for a pick! The truth is Garrison was a favorite to complain about here. Waste of cap, doesn't, hit, can't hit the net....blah, blah, blah. Gets traded and it's he's only 29 and on a good cap hit. lmao. Don't care how many picks we had last year. Picks are like players - tradeable assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 4 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Benning got fleeced in the Forsling/Clendening deal. I think that much is obvious What's 'obvious' to you however has little bearing on reality. You prefer narratives. [edit: I see Baggins already pointed out the truly obvious to you:] Clendening has 10 pts in 27 games this year. Forsling has 6pts in 23g. Get back to us in the future if/when you have something to base this premature claim on. Benning turned a 5th rd pick into Clendening and then Clendening was a piece that Pitt wanted to complete the Sutter deal. Much ado about nothing at this point on your part wadr. Stecher steps in and replaces either of them quite adequately. Your characterization of the 'strategy' is also laughable. But hey, if it fits your narrative, who cares about reality, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said: Garrison was traded for ??? He was only 29 when traded, had a very reasonable cap hit, was playing top 2/3 on Tampa, would have been excellent trade bait at TDL or draft. McCann for.....well that is still to be determined, but it will be expensive to find out. How many picks did the team have last year after the 1rst round? Players vs roster spots. Quantity vs Quality. Bears, beets, Battlestar Gallactica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 We need two years minimum to see the product of the 2015/16 drafts and how they stack versus our divisional rivals first. i consider Benning a net zero right now in terms of positive/negative impact on the franchise, there just isn't enough of his drafted talent on display on NHL ice to crown him best GM ever yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Just looked up the franchise record. Just to even it out OTW equal 1 pt a tie game OTL equal 1 pt a tie game. Canucks record this year so far = 18 W - 33 L - 19 T = 55 pts This could be the 4 th worst season in the Canuck's 46 year history, the 2nd worst in the last generation, 25 years. Not since Keenan and Burke tanked the team to get the Sedins has there been 3 consecutive sub 80 point seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 2017-03-15 at 2:33 PM, hearditall said: Another member actually said that would be an option at 1st NOT ME if U actually go & READ... I simply said that It worked for Mathews & that I Guess that COULD BE an option... What does your point about smoking have to do with THAT^???... If Juolevi isn't Quite NHL ready, is Europe a bad option or something that I don't know???? My point is that Europe may be a good option but it may not be, but Mathews' success has nothing to do with whether it is a good option or not. Totally irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 minute ago, coastal1 said: My point is that Europe may be a good option but it may not be, but Mathews' success has nothing to do with whether it is a good option or not. Totally irrelevant. Hey, see that Chyrchun guy play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 2017-03-15 at 3:21 PM, BaerBoBoeser said: The point was since I made it (and no one really gets your smoking metaphor - doesn't really make sense but whatever) Juolevi is an excellent player and needs to play with a pro game with pro players, junior is actually holding him back Concern over him as a defensemen is obviously strength, is he strong enough yet to handle the NHL and 82 games as he needs to play If not, not we have the same issue we had with Virtanen, junior isn't the right place but we can't send him to the AHL So the alternative, could be have him go play against men in Europe. Play's a pro game, with players a notch above Junior and perhaps slightly below the AHL because its less physical but at least he's playing against men and alot of ex NHL'ers = better for his development The comment on Matthews from our friend makes sense, clearly (even though Matthews is a much better player (generational) compared to Olli, playing against men is better preparation to play against men in the future than continuing to play against adolescents. Make sense? Makes sense. And clearly things are not going totally going as hoped for with Juolevi- I read that he was not even Finland's best defenceman at the WJC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Hey, see that Chyrchun guy play? See Tkatchuck? What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, coastal1 said: My point is that Europe may be a good option but it may not be, but Mathews' success has nothing to do with whether it is a good option or not. Totally irrelevant. Where did I say I knew it was a good option for him or not???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 2017-03-15 at 3:35 PM, khay said: Generally, speaking, drafting has been good. This team has had GMs (e.g., Gillis and Nonis), who did a lot of good things but did horrendous in drafting and developing players. And remember, we are comparing Canucks GMs in this thread, not entire GMs in the history of the NHL. Ehlers, yes we missed out. But evaluate JB on the 2014 draft rather than focussing on that one pick. In that one draft, JB got 4 players who have played at least one game in the NHL Virtanen, McCann, Tryamkin, and Forslng as well as a goalie, Demko, with potential to play an NHL game at some point down the road. When was the last time something like this happened for the Canucks? If JB picked Ehlers over Virtanen or Pastrnak over McCann, then I would go as far as to say that in one year, he equalled what any other GM achieved in the Canucks history when it comes to drafting. Juolevi vs Tkachuk comparison is too soon to judge. It looks like we did miss out on a great player but that's hindsight talking. Some people went as far as to say that Tkachuk's stats are inflated because of Marner. Oh and, Juolevi is yet to play a single NHL game so there is absolutely no way for us to judge how Juolevi will turn out. With regards to Tkahuck, let's just say that JB surprised just about everyone by skipping him. And yes it is very early. But it is not like thinking the Canucks could have drafted Tkachuck is just a matter of hindsight. As for 2014, yes 4 players have played at least one game. Great! How many of those 4 will be NHL players with the Canucks? Well two are already gone, one is a work in progress, so that leaves one and maybe, maybe 2, so let's not start yelling genius talent spotter yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Just looked up the franchise record. Just to even it out OTW equal 1 pt a tie game OTL equal 1 pt a tie game. Canucks record this year so far = 18 W - 33 L - 19 T = 55 pts This could be the 4 th worst season in the Canuck's 46 year history, the 2nd worst in the last generation, 25 years. Not since Keenan and Burke tanked the team to get the Sedins has there been 3 consecutive sub 80 point seasons Sweet , 1st over all pick here we come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal1 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, hearditall said: Where did I say I knew it was a good option for him or not???? You did not say that. But you did bring up the case of matthews and that is the extent of my point, bringing up one case means absolutely zero. That is all. Just like saying that one smoker lived to 93 means zero about the risk of smoking, it is just one case. If you had said: it worked for Matthews and countless other young players, then it would have been different (and wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 44 minutes ago, coastal1 said: You did not say that. But you did bring up the case of matthews and that is the extent of my point, bringing up one case means absolutely zero. That is all. Just like saying that one smoker lived to 93 means zero about the risk of smoking, it is just one case. If you had said: it worked for Matthews and countless other young players, then it would have been different (and wrong). Actually son U need to go back & READ... "Another member actually said that would be an option at 1st NOT ME if U actually go & READ... I simply said that It worked for Mathews & that I Guess that COULD BE an option..." So as quoted earlier I never said it would work for Juolevi.... But to come to think about it more. I ACTUALLY THINK IT WOULD BENEFIT HIM LIKE IT DID FOR MATHEWS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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