Benning - Potential to be one of our Best GM's ever?

[CaptainLinden16]

49 minutes ago, apollo said:

You can barely even argue that Sutter is better than Bonino even at the same cap hit of 4.375... The reality is Bones is at 1.9 AAV and he's the reason pens won the cup and might even repeat this year... utilized their extra cap space too.

First of all Bonino doesn't need other players around him to make him effective... he's a complete player and had a roller coaster of line mates in Van... all of which he excelled with... INCLUDING Vrbata of all people during the latter part of his Canucks tenure. During his year here which he got 6 game winners, and set up quite a few more winning goals, or scored clutch tying goals or set up clutch tying goals...  he never had a bonafide partner. The HBK line only built chemistry towards the latter part of last year and into the playoffs. Had Van traded Sutter for Bonino the year before, I guarantee we don't make the playoffs in 2015 and Pens probably win another cup. 

 

Bonino brings so many intangibles on top of his incredible defensive play. Sutter's only advantage over Nick is that he's slightly better at faceoffs. Last year Sutter was 52% and Bones 50... this year Malhotra has clearly helped Sutter and widened the gap. I'm sure Bones would have also improved. 

 

Nick was miles and miles ahead of every single damn forward in the playoffs in blocks with 50... the only forward close to him was Hornqvist... the next closest forward was Couture with 26... Guess what, Nick also led the pens in +/- during the playoff run with +9 tied with Hagelin... Kessel was a +5... 

 

Crosby -2, Malkin + 1... Bonino +9 ...

Nick is not a product of Kessel or Hagelin. Nick was the glue. Nick was the key piece that got the Pens the cup. 

 

Give me a god damn break... I'm absolutely disgusted that people still protect Jimbo on this idiotic trade even now that it's been proven he got absolutely wrecked.

 

He followed arguably one of the best trades in Franchise history to acquire Bones Sbisa and McCann by arguably one of the dumbest moves in franchise history... he topped it off by locking sutter up who was a freaking RFA at the time to a 5 year 4.37AAV deal before he even played a single game. 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I've grown to love Brandon... he's a hard worker, seems like a great personality off the ice as well and has a great set of tools. Doesn't make the trade any better though. Jimbo got fleeced. Easily his worst trade as GM... no way he'll ever top this one. 

 

I can't believe you are making this argument.  Nick Bonino is one of the slowest players who ever played the game (exaggeration).  He gets so many blocks because watching him in the defensive zone.  He literally stands in the slot all game long (not an exaggeration).  Sure he is smart positionally in both zones, sure he is a good passer, sure he has a good shot; BUT he lacks a lot of speed, a lot of grit and no he doesn't create any of his own opportunities.  He is a better player in Pittsburgh and Sutter is a much better player here.  Why you ask?  Because he plays with Kessel and Hagelin who are two of the fastest players in the NHL.  His weakest attribute is negated completely by that.  They are also both scorers who need a playmaker.  That is Bonino's primary skill.  We had a very slow team which isn't much faster now.  Bonino is no good for us.  You are also marginalizing Sutters faceoff percentage.  Bonino was well under 50% when he was here.  Sutter takes all of our faceoffs.  He is one of the highest in the league in attempts.  He has also consistently been above 50% for his career while Bonino hasn't   Not to mention, Bonino is again 48% this year.

 

You are picking and choosing arguments and stats to fit your line of reasoning. 

 

Bonino can only succeed in the environment he is in.  I feel strongly that based off Sutter skill set he would be a very solid 2nd liner on any team in the NHL.  That being said, Bonino is a better fit in Pittsburgh.  Sutter's offensive numbers make him a poor 2nd line player or an excellent 3rd line player.  His defense and faceoff ability is transformative for this team.  If it wasn't for him then Horvat would not have the ability to have the offensive year he is having.  He would be a our checking line center.  We would be Colorado bad.  Sutter got hurt and the team has suffered and its not much of a surprise.  I know the schedule has been a lot more challenging too, but you really underestimate his value to this team.  He also plays with Megna a lot and now Camarosa or whatever his name is (not going to be here next year).  Cut the guy a break.  What would he do with Kessel and Hagelin??? Probably win a cup and be on pace for a 2nd one right now.

 

Are you upset about the pick and Clendenning?  That's hardly a reason to feel so strongly about this.  It was a fair trade that helped both teams.  I still think there is more than a 50-50 chance that the Pens still win with Sutter. 

[Drakrami]

20 hours ago, BaerBoBoeser said:

I posted this in the GDT today but think it deserves it's own thread and discussion given all the heat Benning took his first two years here

Many people said we had no direction, couldn't understand what he was doing, complained about every move, dissected every move and thought they knew better, guys like Tabnbir from Surrey would go nuts on the radio, people were attacking JB at the season ticket holder summer summits, fan's were slandering the man as 'clueless and stupid' because of the manner in which he spoke- quite sad really and a poor reflection on our fan base.

 

Well, fast foward 2.5 years and look at what we can now see emerging. A young team, with a ton of potential in the pipeline, some good young players and leaders emerging, all while staying competitive and not falling into the Edmonton hopelessness trap. While one can argue, well we were 3rd last in 2016 and could be in 2017, no one can question the boys play hard every night, and for the most part are usually in every game with a chance to win - that makes a big difference long term in preventing Edmontonitis.

 

So - Old Jimbo seems to have taken a team in which he was handcuffed with alot of bad contracts, aging players, NTC's and some high value trade chips only willing to be traded to one city (Kesler) or not willing to move (Edler), and nothing in the pipeline whatsoever upfront or on defense or in goal, and has in 2.5 short years really turned the future of this franchise around.

 

I for one think JB, if he continues on this trajectory, may end up being one of the best GM's we have ever had, and one of the best in the league currently (and I have been a fan for 40 years). From the deals below, it is obvious our team's future is looking much brighter now relative to when he took over, it certainly looks like GMJB is out GM'ing most of the GM's in the league (as you kids like to say! haha).

 

Those who called him names - eat some crow, those who were impatient, perhaps learn some patience with him and the players he trades for / drafts (including Jake -JB saw something in Baer, Granlund, Stech, Try, etc maybe he knows there's something in Jake too! and I wanted Ehlers!), maybe its time for fans to recognize the fine job JB and TL are actually doing if you look forward (and backwards) a few years. They have a plan, had a plan, I can see it, and most can see it now too. Has he been perfect? No, but what GM has? But he has been pretty damn good most of the time if you think about the moves below and what they mean for the future of this team, and where we would NOT be without them.

 

Granlund for Shinkaruk

Baerschi for a 2nd

Sutter (roundabout Bonino) /Sbisa/Mcann (now Gudbranson) for Kesler who chose one team to be traded to!  (handcuffed yet look at that deal!)

Bieksa for a 2nd

Goldobin for Hansen

Dahlen for Burrows

Miller (who people complained about has been nothing but stellar for this 3 years here)

Tyramkin 3rd round

Boeser 25th overall

Demko second round

Stecher signed for nothing

 

Potential in guys like Juolevi, Virtanen, Gaudette, Lockwood, Brisebois, Niell

 

All of that in 2.5 years and people complain about Vey, Megna, and Bonino for some weird reason even though Sutter fills our needs way better lol

 

Let's have some perspective folks - Especially given how little time JB's had to stock the empty cupboards and how handcuffed he's been with contracts etc.

 

Honestly, when you look at what he's done so far, if he keeps this up, he may end up being the best GM we've had and one of the best out there.

3 years as our GM, we are still a bottom feeder in the standings, and yet somehow he is the best GM ever? 

If you are that elevated by our prospects, Buffalo, Carolina and a handful of other NHL teams must be ecstatic, they have prospects that are way better than ours. 

 

Canucks fans and their tunnel vision..

 

[CaptainLinden16]

1 minute ago, Drakrami said:

3 years as our GM, we are still a bottom feeder in the standings, and yet somehow he is the best GM ever? 

If you are that elevated by our prospects, Buffalo, Carolina and a handful of other NHL teams must be ecstatic, they have prospects that are way better than ours. 

 

Canucks fans and their tunnel vision..

 

so when is the last time Buffalo, Carolina and handful of other teams have made the playoffs?  He has turned an empty cupboard into something that looks quite good a lot faster than these other teams.  That doesn't mean our future is better, but we haven't been picking in the top 5 for the last decade either.  So what did you expect?  Why is it not fair to be excited about our prospect depth being the best it has ever been?

 

 

[theilluminati]

Benning has been the GM for 233 games and the Canucks have lost a total of 126. Lets be honest, if the Canucks miss the playoffs in 17-18 and 18-19, which is a very real possibility, is JB even going to be here to GM the team he is rebuilding..?

[Drakrami]

4 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

so when is the last time Buffalo, Carolina and handful of other teams have made the playoffs?  He has turned an empty cupboard into something that looks quite good a lot faster than these other teams.  That doesn't mean our future is better, but we haven't been picking in the top 5 for the last decade either.  So what did you expect?  Why is it not fair to be excited about our prospect depth being the best it has ever been?

 

 

When did I say Buffalo and Carolina are good teams? I was saying don't get too excited about our prospects, they look good on paper, but other teams actually have better prospects than us and still have not done well in years. 

 

What's with this empty cupboard theory? Horvat, Hutton, and a key trading chip in Kesler is empty cupboard? What's the definition of empty again? 

[elvis15]

6 hours ago, Baggins said:

Instant gratification. D-men tend to take longer to develop. High end d-men are harder to acquire and have far more value than high end forwards. This was a good risk on Bennings part. I think worst case we have a good d-man. best case we have a great d-man. Patience Grasshopper.

 

Btw, all 30 teams will lose an asset in the expansion draft. Accept it.

And he did do a good job this year minimizing losses in our forward group when I thought there'd be less movement at the deadline due to the ED. That doesn't mean there's more trades available after the season ends since the team we're trading a D to will have to not only give up assets, but then protect the player we trade to them. That's not an easy sell and only limited teams could even take advantage.

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, apollo said:

You can barely even argue that Sutter is better than Bonino even at the same cap hit of 4.375... The reality is Bones is at 1.9 AAV and he's the reason pens won the cup and might even repeat this year... utilized their extra cap space too.

First of all Bonino doesn't need other players around him to make him effective... he's a complete player and had a roller coaster of line mates in Van... all of which he excelled with... INCLUDING Vrbata of all people during the latter part of his Canucks tenure. During his year here which he got 6 game winners, and set up quite a few more winning goals, or scored clutch tying goals or set up clutch tying goals...  he never had a bonafide partner. The HBK line only built chemistry towards the latter part of last year and into the playoffs. Had Van traded Sutter for Bonino the year before, I guarantee we don't make the playoffs in 2015 and Pens probably win another cup. 

 

Bonino brings so many intangibles on top of his incredible defensive play. Sutter's only advantage over Nick is that he's slightly better at faceoffs. Last year Sutter was 52% and Bones 50... this year Malhotra has clearly helped Sutter and widened the gap. I'm sure Bones would have also improved. 

 

Nick was miles and miles ahead of every single damn forward in the playoffs in blocks with 50... the only forward close to him was Hornqvist... the next closest forward was Couture with 26... Guess what, Nick also led the pens in +/- during the playoff run with +9 tied with Hagelin... Kessel was a +5... 

 

Crosby -2, Malkin + 1... Bonino +9 ...

Nick is not a product of Kessel or Hagelin. Nick was the glue. Nick was the key piece that got the Pens the cup. 

 

Give me a god damn break... I'm absolutely disgusted that people still protect Jimbo on this idiotic trade even now that it's been proven he got absolutely wrecked.

 

He followed arguably one of the best trades in Franchise history to acquire Bones Sbisa and McCann by arguably one of the dumbest moves in franchise history... he topped it off by locking sutter up who was a freaking RFA at the time to a 5 year 4.37AAV deal before he even played a single game. 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I've grown to love Brandon... he's a hard worker, seems like a great personality off the ice as well and has a great set of tools. Doesn't make the trade any better though. Jimbo got fleeced. Easily his worst trade as GM... no way he'll ever top this one. 

 

I'll have what he's having - but hold the hallucinogens.

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, apollo said:

I still have the right to criticize this idiot management core that's burning my beloved team to the ground
 

You have the right, yes, but calling the management group idiots as you make some of the bar-none dumbest claims on these boards - not an easy thing to do btw - is what it is.

 

Wake me up when Benning starts doing things like trade his first round pick, straight up, for say, Chicago or San Jose's......Ring a bell lol?

[Salacious Crumb]

10 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'll have what he's having - but hold the hallucinogens.

The first paragraph sucked me into reading the whole thing. Ugh.

[VforVasili]

Benning has done a great job as GM so far and deserves way more respect than he gets. He started with very little and has performed highway robbery in getting some of these players. 

[Emmetts]

I love what benning has done. The only thing I disagree with is 6x6 loui erickson. Completely unneeded and over the top. Other then the 6x6 with a nmcx2 i like his work. 

Will be super interesring in 2018-2019 when we start peaking. And bc boys are ufa across the league. 

[hearditall]

On 13/03/2017 at 8:51 PM, BaerBoBoeser said:

I posted this in the GDT today but think it deserves it's own thread and discussion given all the heat Benning took his first two years here

Many people said we had no direction, couldn't understand what he was doing, complained about every move, dissected every move and thought they knew better, guys like Tabnbir from Surrey would go nuts on the radio, people were attacking JB at the season ticket holder summer summits, fan's were slandering the man as 'clueless and stupid' because of the manner in which he spoke- quite sad really and a poor reflection on our fan base.

 

Well, fast foward 2.5 years and look at what we can now see emerging. A young team, with a ton of potential in the pipeline, some good young players and leaders emerging, all while staying competitive and not falling into the Edmonton hopelessness trap. While one can argue, well we were 3rd last in 2016 and could be in 2017, no one can question the boys play hard every night, and for the most part are usually in every game with a chance to win - that makes a big difference long term in preventing Edmontonitis.

 

So - Old Jimbo seems to have taken a team in which he was handcuffed with alot of bad contracts, aging players, NTC's and some high value trade chips only willing to be traded to one city (Kesler) or not willing to move (Edler), and nothing in the pipeline whatsoever upfront or on defense or in goal, and has in 2.5 short years really turned the future of this franchise around.

 

I for one think JB, if he continues on this trajectory, may end up being one of the best GM's we have ever had, and one of the best in the league currently (and I have been a fan for 40 years). From the deals below, it is obvious our team's future is looking much brighter now relative to when he took over, it certainly looks like GMJB is out GM'ing most of the GM's in the league (as you kids like to say! haha).

 

Those who called him names - eat some crow, those who were impatient, perhaps learn some patience with him and the players he trades for / drafts (including Jake -JB saw something in Baer, Granlund, Stech, Try, etc maybe he knows there's something in Jake too! and I wanted Ehlers!), maybe its time for fans to recognize the fine job JB and TL are actually doing if you look forward (and backwards) a few years. They have a plan, had a plan, I can see it, and most can see it now too. Has he been perfect? No, but what GM has? But he has been pretty damn good most of the time if you think about the moves below and what they mean for the future of this team, and where we would NOT be without them.

 

Granlund for Shinkaruk

Baerschi for a 2nd

Sutter (roundabout Bonino) /Sbisa/Mcann (now Gudbranson) for Kesler who chose one team to be traded to!  (handcuffed yet look at that deal!)

Bieksa for a 2nd

Goldobin for Hansen

Dahlen for Burrows

Miller (who people complained about has been nothing but stellar for this 3 years here)

Tyramkin 3rd round

Boeser 25th overall

Demko second round

Stecher signed for nothing

 

Potential in guys like Juolevi, Virtanen, Gaudette, Lockwood, Brisebois, Niell

 

All of that in 2.5 years and people complain about Vey, Megna, and Bonino for some weird reason even though Sutter fills our needs way better lol

 

Let's have some perspective folks - Especially given how little time JB's had to stock the empty cupboards and how handcuffed he's been with contracts etc.

 

Honestly, when you look at what he's done so far, if he keeps this up, he may end up being the best GM we've had and one of the best out there.

BOOM +40 BRO...

Not quite best yet but if he gets us to the Cup Finals than he'll be there...

 

Can't wait to see that BaerBOBoeser line.  Maybe as soon as this year? 

[hearditall]

3 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said:

Actually he said "he's a freak" which didn't show much class at all, but I think he didn't think before he said that. 

But he is a freak. Just like Brock Lesnar or Chara, or Crosby, or GSP, or Probert, or Bure or Marchand...

In sports term: Dominant, strong, lasting, force, one of a kind type of guy... 

 

I'd take that as a compliment just like it was,  but lets twist it 180 degrees...

[Pete M]

6 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

That actually made me LOL.  Though in one way you're right, I do want failure for a while so that we get a high draft pick. 

 

As far as proving anything on CDC, it's impossible.  The Benning supporters would have supported him and his moves no matter where this team finished in the standings.  There's literally no outcome to this season that they wouldn't have loved. 

 

Made the playoffs:  Benning is so great he's turned the team around already.  Stupid media doesn't know anything!

 

Just missed the playoffs:  Benning is so great, youngsters got to play in a competitive environment.  If we were a bottom feeder we'd end up sucking like the Oilers for 10 years!

 

Bottom feeding:  Benning is so great, our prospects are awesome and we'll be a Stanley Cup contender soon!

 

There is no winning a debate against this crowd because Benning can do no wrong to them. 

 

I hated Benning from the start because the signing of Miller & Vrbata signaled the direction this team was taking.  I wanted a rebuild, not a last ditch effort for a playoff run with the Sedins.  I think I've already been proven right, looking at the last two years I don't need to wait for failure.  Not just failure on the ice but failure to acquire draft picks and (until this trade deadline) prospects.  Pretty much literally every media outlet and hockey expert wanted a rebuild from Vancouver too.  CBC, Sportsnet, TSN, Team1040, ESPN, The Province, The Vancouver Sun, The National Post, The Hockey News, Yahoo Sports, Vegas Oddsmakers, Bleacher Report, and Vice Sports all predicted the Canucks would stink and didn't like the direction this team was taking. 

 

For the first time, because of the trade deadline moves, I do see hope.  I see hope because Benning has finally given up on the Sedins.  I know Benning supporters will say this is all part of a grand plan but Benning himself stated this team is taking a new direction. 

Can add LE to your list, and when the Sedins are extended, you can really flip noodle.

[guntrix]

6 hours ago, KKnight said:

If the lottery went different we would have had a franchise player right now, but thats just how it went. But, the players we have can develop in to franchise players. Bertuzzi wasnt that great when he started, neither was Nazzy for examples. Both were dominant players after continuous development. 

How can you say that when Benning's first round whiff with Jake played a huge role in not obtaining a top line player. 

 

Instead, the fan base is celebrating Jake getting a primary assist in the AHL. 

[apollo]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

You have the right, yes, but calling the management group idiots as you make some of the bar-none dumbest claims on these boards - not an easy thing to do btw - is what it is.

 

Wake me up when Benning starts doing things like trade his first round pick, straight up, for say, Chicago or San Jose's......Ring a bell lol?

Dude that was funny... We're in a fantasy league... Trying to have fun LOL... 

 

I'm not getting paid a penny to manage a fantasy team and my audience is 30 people vs my audience being hundreds of thousands or even millions of canucks fans. 

 

Also you can't even compare fantasy decisions to real life. 

 

We're trading for players that are measuring production on separate teams. It doesn't even make sense, hence the name fantasy. 

 

[Pete M]

4 hours ago, apollo said:

You can barely even argue that Sutter is better than Bonino even at the same cap hit of 4.375... The reality is Bones is at 1.9 AAV and he's the reason pens won the cup and might even repeat this year... utilized their extra cap space too.

First of all Bonino doesn't need other players around him to make him effective... he's a complete player and had a roller coaster of line mates in Van... all of which he excelled with... INCLUDING Vrbata of all people during the latter part of his Canucks tenure. During his year here which he got 6 game winners, and set up quite a few more winning goals, or scored clutch tying goals or set up clutch tying goals...  he never had a bonafide partner. The HBK line only built chemistry towards the latter part of last year and into the playoffs. Had Van traded Sutter for Bonino the year before, I guarantee we don't make the playoffs in 2015 and Pens probably win another cup. 

 

Bonino brings so many intangibles on top of his incredible defensive play. Sutter's only advantage over Nick is that he's slightly better at faceoffs. Last year Sutter was 52% and Bones 50... this year Malhotra has clearly helped Sutter and widened the gap. I'm sure Bones would have also improved. 

 

Nick was miles and miles ahead of every single damn forward in the playoffs in blocks with 50... the only forward close to him was Hornqvist... the next closest forward was Couture with 26... Guess what, Nick also led the pens in +/- during the playoff run with +9 tied with Hagelin... Kessel was a +5... 

 

Crosby -2, Malkin + 1... Bonino +9 ...

Nick is not a product of Kessel or Hagelin. Nick was the glue. Nick was the key piece that got the Pens the cup. 

 

Give me a god damn break... I'm absolutely disgusted that people still protect Jimbo on this idiotic trade even now that it's been proven he got absolutely wrecked.

 

He followed arguably one of the best trades in Franchise history to acquire Bones Sbisa and McCann by arguably one of the dumbest moves in franchise history... he topped it off by locking sutter up who was a freaking RFA at the time to a 5 year 4.37AAV deal before he even played a single game. 

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I've grown to love Brandon... he's a hard worker, seems like a great personality off the ice as well and has a great set of tools. Doesn't make the trade any better though. Jimbo got fleeced. Easily his worst trade as GM... no way he'll ever top this one. 

 

My only questions yo you... are you a rum drinker or a whiskey drinker?

[Silky mitts]

jesus did I just read that bonino was the reason the pens won the cup?

[apollo]

9 minutes ago, Pete M said:

My only questions yo you... are you a rum drinker or a whiskey drinker?

Hahahah good question. 

 

Ideally white tequila, followed by beer, then white wine and then vodka. 

 

Ive had too many bad nights drinking rum so I stay away. Whiskey gets me angry so I stay away from that too. 

 

I've been %100 sober for almost 3 weeks now though... Was super sick and just finished my antibiotics... Looking forward to this weekend lol 

[KKnight]

10 minutes ago, guntrix said:

How can you say that when Benning's first round whiff with Jake played a huge role in not obtaining a top line player. 

 

Instead, the fan base is celebrating Jake getting a primary assist in the AHL. 

Whose to say Jakes a right off yet?? i still think he can be a very effective player. I was talking about us losing the lottery last year. If we had stayed in our position we would have Puljujarvi. I love Juolevi and think he will have a great career, but Puljujarvi effectiveness? Probably not.