Draft Day Moves for 2 top 5 picks (Proposal)

[Adarsh Sant]

Right now, point percentages have the Canucks with the 5th best draft lottery odds. I'm making the assumption every team gets their pick, based on odds. I'll also assume Vegas get 3rd pick, and NJD get 4th pick.

 

The goal here is to try and get top picks. Since there is no generational talent, the value the top picks have is less than usual. It is still high however. One issue is Edler has a NTC and he probably wouldn't waive it to go to ARI or COL or Vegas. So that leaves Tanev as an asset we can trade.

 

Here is the first trade:

 

VAN: 

Tanev

2018 2nd round(VAN)

2017 2nd round (VAN)

ARI:

2nd overall pick 2017

 

Now I know you're not supposed to trade picks in a rebuild, but we are receiving an extra pick from Columbus in the next 2 years, and 2nd round picks have significantly more risk than a 2nd overall pick.

 

 

Next trade

VAN:

2017 5th overall pick

Jordan Subban

Vegas:

2017 3rd overall pick

 

Now this trade might need a bit more from the Canucks but Vegas getting 2 prospects for one is a good thing for them since they don't have a prospect pool yet. We can also guarantee them a good center since we'd be taking a Dman. They would get either Vilardi or Mittelstadt.

 

Now we are left with the 2nd and 3rd overall picks, like we had in 1999.

 

We draft Hischier/Patrick (whoever is available) with the 2nd overall and Timothy Liljegren with the 3rd overall. Full rebuild mode.

 

Thoughts? Were the trades too weak?

[Glory_Days]

No on so many levels.

 

For one, getting a top 2 picks will be harder then "Throw our #4 or #5 pick and a player/prospect their way" top two picks have the general consensus of being better by quite a bit then anything after.

 

Another problem, sorry to burst your bubble, Subban doesn't have anywhere close to the trade value you think he does, that 5th ovr for Vegas 3rd, could be a possibility, but it ain't gonna be Subban, or Grenier, or Sbisa that gets it done.

 

Arizona moves their 2nd ovr pick for two 2nd picks, one of which is in a weak/shallow draft year? Yeah, no. Tanev is a nice piece for teams to have on their back-end but if Benning called Arizona GM with that offer, pretty sure they would block our number

[coastal.view]

hahahahahaha

 

that is the sound you will hear on the phone when these trades are proposed to the other team

the vegas one is pretty bad... subban is the sweetener ?  you have no clue what it takes to move up from 5th to 3rd overall

 

but the really silly one is the one to coyotes

2 - second rounders... really??   tanev might get you a late 1st rounder for the right team who needs him

so you think you can move from the bottom of the 1st round value wise to the 2nd overall pick for 2 second rounders

 

why don't you do yourself a favour and figure out what that really will cost

look at what burke paid to do to put in place the ability to draft the sedins

it will cost good established players to move up in the fashion you wish

and it will hurt a ton to do that

the short term cost will be "ouch" so you really have to believe strongly in the long term gain

you have to be certain about the player you will acquire in the draft

 

it takes smarts and some huge gonads to do a deal like this

that is the main reason why burke is a top 3 gm in canuck history

he had the gumption and foresight to take on the pain

(think about how it must have irked burke to hear for years about the sedin twins as sisters - that reflected so poorly on his persona of truculence)

 

[jmahyoung]

VAN: 

Tanev

2018 2nd round(VAN)

2017 2nd round (VAN)

ARI:

2nd overall pick 2017

 

Maybe they would balk at 2nd overall, but 4th or 5th overall... probably the other team would go for it.

 

It's a big price to pay losing Tanev, that was my first reaction.

[Fanuck]

First trade is way overpayment. 

Second trade is not enough to get the 2nd overall. 

 

After the lottery,  JB needs to assess the probability of whether Timothy Liljegren will still be available to them and go from there. 

[Adarsh Sant]

1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

hahahahahaha

 

that is the sound you will hear on the phone when these trades are proposed to the other team

the vegas one is pretty bad... subban is the sweetener ?  you have no clue what it takes to move up from 5th to 3rd overall

 

but the really silly one is the one to coyotes

2 - second rounders... really??   tanev might get you a late 1st rounder for the right team who needs him

so you think you can move from the bottom of the 1st round value wise to the 2nd overall pick for 2 second rounders

 

why don't you do yourself a favour and figure out what that really will cost

look at what burke paid to do to put in place the ability to draft the sedins

it will cost good established players to move up in the fashion you wish

and it will hurt a ton to do that

the short term cost will be "ouch" so you really have to believe strongly in the long term gain

you have to be certain about the player you will acquire in the draft

 

it takes smarts and some huge gonads to do a deal like this

that is the main reason why burke is a top 3 gm in canuck history

he had the gumption and foresight to take on the pain

(think about how it must have irked burke to hear for years about the sedin twins as sisters - that reflected so poorly on his persona of truculence)

 

It depends on who Vegas want to draft. If they want Vilardi/Mittelstadt anyways, they'd be able to draft one of them with the 5th overall pick. If they want Liljegren, then it would cost a lot more to move from 5th to 3rd I agree.

[mugiwara]

Edler + ..... for vegas 1.

[dayner]

I posted this trade a few weeks ago

 

 

VAN: 

Tanev

Hutton

2017 2nd round(VAN)----From CBJ

2017 3rd round (VAN)

ARI:

2nd overall pick 2017

 

Gotta pay a lot to get a lot

 

 

[Adarsh Sant]

.

41 minutes ago, mugiwara said:

Edler + ..... for vegas 1.

Did you even read it? Edler has a NTC. He won't waive to go to Vegas lol

[Glory_Days]

@Adarsh Sant

Not disagreeing with you saying Edler won't waive for Vegas, he has a NTC and Vegas is likely to be a joke of a team for a few years.

 

That being said, Vancouver isn't in much better shape, we're going to be a bad team for at least another 2 years. Play in dreary Vancouver, where the media and rabid fans are all over players, or play in Vegas, with lots to do, have anonymity in the city when going out. Plus schedule wouldn't be so bad, we all know Canucks get shafted pretty hard with the schedule, partly due to us being only team in pacific NW. 

 

I do doubt he waives his NTC though, for Vegas anyways. 

[Jam126]

3 hours ago, dayner said:

I posted this trade a few weeks ago

 

 

VAN: 

Tanev

Hutton

2017 2nd round(VAN)----From CBJ

2017 3rd round (VAN)

ARI:

2nd overall pick 2017

 

Gotta pay a lot to get a lot

 

 

And that's why it's a bad trade for us. Why would we do that?

[kenhodgejr]

Proposal: Trade Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Brendan Gaunce, and Tate Olsen with salary retained to Ottawa.

 

Van gets: prospect C - Logan Brown and D- Thomas Chabot. 

[Adarsh Sant]

1 hour ago, kenhodgejr said:

Proposal: Trade Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Brendan Gaunce, and Tate Olsen with salary retained to Ottawa.

 

Van gets: prospect C - Logan Brown and D- Thomas Chabot. 

LOL this is worse than mine. Thomas Chabot is one of the best defensive prospects outside the NHL. Better than Juolevi IMO.  The Sedins are gonna be done in 2-3 years.

Why would Ottawa even consider this? What do they get? 2 more years of Sedins who are WAY past their prime?

 

And even if we wanted to, we can't retain salary on both Sedins. 

 

 

[kenhodgejr]

33 minutes ago, Adarsh Sant said:

LOL this is worse than mine. Thomas Chabot is one of the best defensive prospects outside the NHL. Better than Juolevi IMO.  The Sedins are gonna be done in 2-3 years.

Why would Ottawa even consider this? What do they get? 2 more years of Sedins who are WAY past their prime?

 

And even if we wanted to, we can't retain salary on both Sedins. 

 

 

I disagree. I think the Sedins will look to be moved to a contender because they know whats best for Vancouver is to get back some prospects. They saw the reaction of everyone when Burrows and Hansen left. Ottawa is one of the few teams who could take add two top 6 players without messing with their team too much. Sedins consider Ottawa because Burrows tells them its good and they will like it. Burrows looks out for them like family. Sedin's like staying in Canada. I see it being a fit. We will have to take back bad salary. Maybe we don't get Chabot but Logan Brown needs to be the main piece for me. We take the best player available at the draft. Maybe we go after a puck moving defence man like Liljegren or Cale Maker

 

Granlund Horvat Boesser

Goldobin Sutter Dahlen

Baertchi Brown Virtanen

MacEwan Gaudette Lockwood 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I like your thinking but execution is a bit off.

 

1) Arizona have Keller and Strome, two possible first line centers, and Domi, a very capable 2nd-3rd line center. They don't need to pick another center. They need depth at wing, size and defensive help but even have D-men. A goalie over there would really be ideal.

 

Say we end up picking 5th overall again:

 

TO ARI: 5th overall + Virtanen + 4th round pick

TO VAN: 2nd overall pick

 

Arizona don't need a center that will go top-2, they might as well drop down and take a defenceman or winger (Owen), and this way they get a potential top-6 powerforward in Virtanen out of it too, plus a late pick to boot.

 

The Canucks trade quantity for quality and get one of Nolan or Hirschier which is exactly what they need to complement Horvat and give us that elusive 1-2 punch again. Virtanen is a bit of a loss but JB can make that up in later drafts/UFA signings.

 

 

2) I think that Vegas pick is really up for grabs for a defenceman and not necessarily a young guy because they may well want to start playing well now and look for a veteran. Edler or Tanev would be really quite perfect to go over there + our 2nd round pick for their 3rd overall. That's probably a bit hard a pick to pry though.

 

Dallas on the other hand look like they're going to get the 6th overall pick. That team can score and has young forwards, but needs help getting the puck out. Again, they need a goalie, but need defencemen who can defend and we have exactly that in Chris Tanev. Reunites Tanev and Hamhuis as well.

 

TO DAL: Chris Tanev + 2nd round pick

TO VAN: 6th overall pick

 

I know JB doesn't want to trade picks but I'd rather we move up and gain quality than draft a whole bunch of fringe-NHLers. Lets go all out. Get the 6th overall pick. Draft a stud defenceman. If Makar is still available, take him. Otherwise Liljegren is there. Which one we pick depends on what our scouts think they've seen from them, I think Liljegren is a bit of a riskier pick but bigger size, Makar is the safe bet to be a dynamic rich-man's Stecher.

 

Most importantly our future core is complete. We need a future top-6 if not top line center and a future PP QB, ideally a star defenceman. JB has made that clear. These big moves gives us the following young core:

 

1C: Hirschier

2C: Horvat

Top-6 forward: Dahlen, Goldobin, Baertschi, Granlund (some will play 3rd line)

3C: Sutter for a while, then Gaudette

4C: Gaunce for life

Powerforwards: The only missing pieces - will have to find these when we're ready for a playoff push in UFA/trades (eg. Brian Boyle to TOR)

1D: Liljegren/Makar

2D: Juolevi

Top-4 defencemen: Stecher, Hutton, Sbisa, Tryamkin

Goalie: Demko

 

To be honest that is a core with tertiary players similar to the Cup winning teams we've seen in the past. Good top-2 centers with good two-way ability, lots of top-6 wingers who can play well defensively but still score 20+ goals, a potential star top defenceman (possibly 2 if we're lucky) then plenty of good top-4 D-men who can play 20+ minutes, and of course a red hot star goalie.

[sockeye]

Personally, I think Tanev is our best defenceman (because he plays defence better than all the other D; I like him better than Stecher) and he's 4 years younger than Edler.  I realize that Edler has a NTC but that doesn't necessarily mean we need to trade Tanev.  I want to keep Tanev as a mentor for our young D (including Stecher who I like).  This 2017 draft is weak in comparison to the last few years.  We don't need to trade up.

[Me_]

No need to trade up  or down for a second top 5 picks. The Canucks are getting one on their own. I like what I see in the potential of Juolevi, Boeser and Virtanen in the wings to go along with the current youth on the team. This team still needs to get veteran leadership by players such as the Sedins, for at least another year.

Not considering the lottery, as it is now

 

1st OVERALL - Nolan Patrick - Colorado gets the 1st overall placement by 20 points.

2nd OVERALL - Nico Hischier - New Jersey gets the 2nd overall as their record for the last 10 games is a woeful 1-8-1. At this point, that won's change.

3rd OVERALL - Vancouver gets the 3rd overall as auditions for youth is served. They have the next worst bottom last 10 record at 2-5-3.

4th OVERALL - Arizona, Detroit or Dallas as they're both playing more of less 500 hockey.

5th OVERALL - Arizona, Detroit or Dallas as they're both playing more of less 500 hockey.

 

However, after Nolan Patrick, there is a massive drop in talent and production. No doubt many will play in the NHL, but putting anyone in the top 5 to a Horvat-like standard might be asking for a bit much. Since Colorado is set to get 1st overall, perhaps a draft day deal can be made to get 1st overall whatever the Canucks' rank is. Tanev and Vancouver's 1st perhaps. Vancouver adding a bit to make that work is still a fair trade.

 

If that is not possible, I wouldn't mind seeing Vancouver trade down for top young talent like a Baertschi, Granlund, Goldobin, Dahlen deal where Vancouver's future is added to. What Vancouver could get for its 1st this year could far outweigh the productive value any player in the top 5 could get, Patrick excluded.

 

 

[ChampStatus]

On 2017-03-17 at 10:01 AM, Adarsh Sant said:

VAN: 

Tanev

2018 2nd round(VAN)

2017 2nd round (VAN)

ARI:

2nd overall pick 2017

Arizona under John Chayka has changed the way they are operating. With a heavy focus on stats and analytics.

Chris Tanev is not Analytic frienly. Low point production with a high risk of getting injured. Has yet to play a full season.

Analytics also put a high price on draft picks. Even in a weak draft I dont think they will be willing to miss a pick like that unless they get a first rounder back.

Arizona drafted 4 D-Men last year + with OEL, Goligoski, Murphy, Schenn, Cannauton (RIP Derick Roy), Chychrun, Deangelo all under contract for next year.

 

Lastly Please dont move any more 2nd round draft picks.

 

On 2017-03-17 at 10:01 AM, Adarsh Sant said:

Next trade

VAN:

2017 5th overall pick

Jordan Subban

Vegas:

2017 3rd overall pick

Vegas is not Atlanta they are not looking to sign Black hockey players to increase fan appeal.

So many things wrong with this trade.

There is a reason why Jordan Subban

Just Not Ready