5th Overall: CDC 2017 Draft Consensus

[theminister]

1 minute ago, Pete M said:

JB needs to trade a "D" man for a 1st round pick in order to protect from losing a quality asset.

 

It seems criminal that LV can take from a team that has a bad roster such as the Canucks.

It's funny to me how Sbisa has suddenly become a quality asset when most thought he was a liability at his contract even a year ago and would hamper the Canucks going forward.

[theminister]

9 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Not at all, he was known to be one of the rawest prospects and would take time to develop.

Absolutely true and completely ignores the reality that judging the majority of prospects within 5 years is, in a word, dumb.

[Pete M]

Just now, theminister said:

It's funny to me how Sbisa has suddenly become a quality asset when most thought he was a liability at his contract even a year ago and would hamper the Canucks going forward.

It is funny, like some have alluded to, "D" take longer to develop...sometimes it's hard to put 2 and 2 together. Sbisa is developing into a valuable asset, but now if unprotected can be lost for nothing. Management needs to think asset management and where this team will be in 3 or 4 years...can't afford to lose valuable roster players for nothing.

Another first round pick would help with the rebuild if he turns out as expected.

[theminister]

Just now, Pete M said:

It is funny, like some have alluded to, "D" take longer to develop...sometimes it's hard to put 2 and 2 together. Sbisa is developing into a valuable asset, but now if unprotected can be lost for nothing. Management needs to think asset management and where this team will be in 3 or 4 years...can't afford to lose valuable roster players for nothing.

Another first round pick would help with the rebuild if he turns out as expected.

It's the irony of the statement that they hadn't been thinking of asset management prior when they scouted, traded for and signed Sbisa, and gave him a role to grow into.

 

It's the same with the Sutter and Guddy trades, and the claims of bad asset management because of the acquisition costs and necessary extensions.

 

I've pointed it out to so many people so many times... does anyone really believe that Sutter at the end of his contract at 32yo wouldn't return an equal or greater amount than a 3rd liner on a cheap contract, a depth prospect and a low 2nd if we included a high 3rd with him? It's ludicrous to me that others can't see that when Burr and Brian Boyle just went for what they did.

 

If Guddy stays for 6 years and they chose to move him afterwards, don't you think a 30yo mammoth, rugged, veteran RHD wouldn't return a good prospect and a high 2nd? 

 

In both cases, the worst you could say is thst it is an asset timeline deferal.  The problem with the term asset management is that many who use it don't understand what the totality of it is. It's a multifaceted strategy.

[appleboy]

12 minutes ago, Pete M said:

It is funny, like some have alluded to, "D" take longer to develop...sometimes it's hard to put 2 and 2 together. Sbisa is developing into a valuable asset, but now if unprotected can be lost for nothing. Management needs to think asset management and where this team will be in 3 or 4 years...can't afford to lose valuable roster players for nothing.

Another first round pick would help with the rebuild if he turns out as expected.

The problem is that the Canucks may not be able to move a D man before the expansion draft because other teams will need to protect him. The best time to move a D would be at the draft but we may lose Sbisa to LV. This will make it difficult to part with a Tanev or Guddy.  

What tam would have the ability to protect Tanev?

[Nucker 67]

27 minutes ago, theminister said:

Absolutely true and completely ignores the reality that judging the majority of prospects within 5 years is, in a word, dumb.

Gaunce was drafted 26th overall in 2012, and here we are 5 years later. He's got a total of 1 NHL goal. So, what do you think? 

[theminister]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

Gaunce was drafted 26th overall in 2012, and here we are 5 years later. He's got a total of 1 NHL goal. So, what do you think? 

I think he's got the ability to be a solid bottom 6 centre or winger. 

 

He still has room to grow.

 

NHL level player. Fine pick.

[aGENT]

16 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The problem is that the Canucks may not be able to move a D man before the expansion draft because other teams will need to protect him. The best time to move a D would be at the draft but we may lose Sbisa to LV. This will make it difficult to part with a Tanev or Guddy.  

What tam would have the ability to protect Tanev?

ARZ, TBL, TOR.

[Neko]

17 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Gaunce was drafted 26th overall in 2012, and here we are 5 years later. He's got a total of 1 NHL goal. So, what do you think? 

That was written as if Gaunce has been playing in the NHL for those 5 years, this was his first full season.

[Jägermeister]

This is really cool.  Good work OP.

1. Vilardi

2. Mittlestadt

3. Glass

 

But honestly I'm pretty happy with any of those 3.

 

Please god no Tippett or Rasmussen.

[longsuffering]

Is there anyone there who could play and really contribute for Canucks in October?

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

Gaunce was drafted 26th overall in 2012, and here we are 5 years later. He's got a total of 1 NHL goal. So, what do you think? 

What do you think the average 26th overall pick does in their career?

Gaunce actually projects to be better than average whether you realize it or not.

The odds of a guy like him playing 100 NHL games is about 50/50.

Gaunce has already hit 77g - and there are some extremely promising things about him.

First, his underlying numbers in a bottom six role this year were simply outstanding.

51.3% corsi

25.9% offensive zone starts / 42% relative to ozone starts.  Arguably the best possession numbers on the entire team.

+5 turnover differential, 51.2% in the faceoff circle as a rookie, 94 hits in 57g at less than 10 minutes/g - and clearly an outstanding defensive forward that skates well, is 6'2' in the range of 220lbs.

Sorry, but cherry-picking his production in fourth line minutes, high dzone starts and out of context - misses the entire boat.  Gaunce played with depth and replacement forwards, and largely a makeshift blueline that was the NHL's youngest for considerable stretches.  He did his job well - if you expected a lot of production you weren't being realistic.

I hope he in effect flies under the radar and isn't taken by Vegas - he's definitely worth keeping.

[oldnews]

10 minutes ago, longsuffering said:

Is there anyone there who could play and really contribute for Canucks in October?

who knows, but does a draft pick's contributions this October matter that much?

[RakuRaku]

17 minutes ago, longsuffering said:

Is there anyone there who could play and really contribute for Canucks in October?

I asked the same question too... put your $ on Glass if he bulks up over summer.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

What do you think the average 26th overall pick does in their career?

Gaunce actually projects to be better than average whether you realize it or not.

The odds of a guy like him playing 100 NHL games is about 50/50.

Gaunce has already hit 77g - and there are some extremely promising things about him.

First, his underlying numbers in a bottom six role this year were simply outstanding.

51.3% corsi

25.9% offensive zone starts / 42% relative to ozone starts.  Arguably the best possession numbers on the entire team.

+5 turnover differential, 51.2% in the faceoff circle as a rookie, 94 hits in 57g at less than 10 minutes/g - and clearly an outstanding defensive forward that skates well, is 6'2' in the range of 220lbs.

Sorry, but cherry-picking his production in fourth line minutes, high dzone starts and out of context - misses the entire boat.  Gaunce played with depth and replacement forwards, and largely a makeshift blueline that was the NHL's youngest for considerable stretches.  He did his job well - if you expected a lot of production you weren't being realistic.

I hope he in effect flies under the radar and isn't taken by Vegas - he's definitely worth keeping.

If he could only get a little nasty, like Tanner Glass nasty, he would be an even more valuable guy.  

[aGENT]

23 minutes ago, longsuffering said:

Is there anyone there who could play and really contribute for Canucks in October?

'This October' shouldn't really be much (any) of a deciding factor in our pick. 

 

And no, likely not.

 

Patrick/Hischier are the only two with significant chances of playing in the NHL next year, one of the many reasons they're ranked so high. 

[appleboy]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

ARZ, TBL, TOR.

LV , but they will only have draft picks to trade unless they steel someone of interest. 

[Wonder__Bread]

20 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

I specifically said that nobody is genetically identical, so your accusation of broadbrush is invalid.

 

Ironic that you now claim a broadbrush and generality.  "Absolutely none" -- you are wrong, people are NOT all the same.  In our early 20s, my friend and I worked out and ate similarly, yet he gained easily and I could not.  Because you could add mass to any specific degree does NOT project upon everyone.  And again, you are making assumptions upon someone whom you (nor I) have no idea about genetically.  Maybe he can make significant gains, maybe not -- neither of us know that for certain.  What we DO have is an indicator of a sibling, whereas you are simply projecting wishful thinking and hope.

"Nobody is "genetically identical", that's a red herring". Just to refresh your memory those are your words. I'm the one who specifically said that no one is genetically identical, you called that statement a red herring so I think you're misremembering some things here.

 

You're missing the point of me giving myself as an example. I made that statement to prove someone of a specific body type could make those gains but I also said that in the context that we all do it at our own individual rates. Where am I saying that everyone will gain muscle at the same rate as myself? You were the one making a generalization and I was correcting you. I have very clearly said that we all gain muscle at our own individual rates so you can't simply look at Petterssons brother to determine how much weight he will put on which was YOUR original argument. You're almost arguing with yourself at this point. 

 

I know the rate I developed muscle mass doesn't project upon everyone as I've stated that over ten times in the past two posts. That's where you went wrong though, you should've tailored a program to YOUR needs and not have done things "similarly" to your friend. My point still stands. Studies have been done and have proved that high level athletes following a specific program tailored to their needs can put on an average of approximately 20 lbs of lean muscle mass per year. Every athlete varies which is why I say an average of approximately 20 pounds. Some can only do 15, some can do 25. It took myself nearly two years as I don't have the resources of high level athletes.

 

At this point your running in circles trying to distract me from your initial flawed argument where you stated that Pettersson will develop muscle at the same rate as his brother which I have proven is not the case. Let's end this here and agree to disagree as I'm not going to dissect another one of your jumbled arguments. If you need to have the last word, so be it. 

[Gaudette Celly]

3 minutes ago, Wonder__Bread said:

At this point your running in circles trying to distract me from your initial flawed argument where you stated that Pettersson will develop muscle at the same rate as his brother which I have proven is not the case. Let's end this here and agree to disagree as I'm not going to dissect another one of your jumbled arguments. If you need to have the last word, so be it. 

The problem is that with every post you contradict what you said previously, and mischaracterize/misconstrue what I said to try to turn it around, which is strawmanning.  One more time -- neither you nor I nor ANYONE can accurately project him, but what we DO have is his brother as a marker.  That's all, and it cannot simply be dismissed out-of-hand as you've attempted to do.

[theminister]

1 hour ago, Virtanen#18 said:

I asked the same question too... put your $ on Glass if he bulks up over summer.

Glass is way off being physically ready. He needs time to bulk.

 

I spoke to him this year and he's focused on being fit for Portland's season. They should be good next year and older as a group.

 

We aren't getting help this year from the draft. Put it out of your mind.