[discussion] is PHI our best chance to move up in the draft?

[Nucker 67]

Do you really think PHI would pass on Patrick at #2 to take Mittelstadt? I would be shocked and then I guess DAL would take Patrick at #3. So, why would VAN trade a lot to get the #2? Would JB also pass on Patrick? And if so, why do we need the #2 then?  

[Warhippy]

Or just take both of Dallas' goalies and add in a small cake topper or two for the 3rd overall then trade Tanev in a separate package ensuring we keep our depth garner a very high pick in return plus add back more in the Tanev trade

 

Philly isn't that desperate 

 

 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

Fillppula is not a cap dump.  They traded for him and actually think he's been quite good for them.

At the TDL they moved Streit a pending UFA to get him and a 4th.  

 

he isn't anywhere close to being worth his 5 mil salary tho, so yah he is a cap dump. We got more out of Loui. 

[mll]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

he isn't anywhere close to being worth his 5 mil salary tho, so yah he is a cap dump. We got more out of Loui. 

But it sounds like they want to keep him. 

 

Also Del Zotto and Streit are offensive Ds - Hakstol has played at times 2 PMDs together.  Are they really looking for defensive Ds.

[Gaudette Celly]

Quote

"Is PHI our best chance to move up in the draft?"

The question should be "do we need to move up".  The below doesn't appear to be moving up anyway, but taking the pick.

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

Tanev (4.445 cap)

Baer (1.850 cap)  

total cap aded 6.295 

33 oa pick

 

for:

2nd oa

Filppula - 5 mil cap dump

So we give away a top-pairing defenseman who's also our best trade asset, plus a top-6 forward, plus a very high 2nd, plus take on a cap dump... all for a pick that will likely end up being a prospect who has a long injury history and is not even guaranteed to be a top-line centre.

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

The question should be "do we need to move up".  The below doesn't appear to be moving up anyway, but taking the pick.

 

So we give away a top-pairing defenseman who's also our best trade asset, plus a top-6 forward, plus a very high 2nd, plus take on a cap dump... all for a pick that will likely end up being a prospect who has a long injury history and is not even guaranteed to be a top-line centre.

 

Or... we pick 2nd and 5th in a year we need to be rebuilding, not hanging on to guys that may not be part of the future. 

 

Tanev has high value, we should use it. Baer is great, but he's only a top 6 with us. We're in a position to take a cap dump. And since it costs to move up, the 33rd is the necessary overpayment piece. 

 

Nothing says we have to take Patrick at 2nd. We could take Heiskanen at 2nd and Glass at 5th, or Viladri and 2nd and Makar at 5ht e.g.

 

Its a move to ensure we get potential 1D and 1C to our rebuild now, those are undeniably our 2 biggest holes.

 

We don't know whats going to happen next year, we may end up "unlucky" and pick even lower next season so if we have a chance to pick up two kids this year it makes sense to me. 

 

[morrissex95]

I'd rather pick Cody Glass, who's looking like he's a lot of potential then gamble on Hischier. I think a lot of players in this draft are really underrated, Glass in particular. 

[Toews]

24 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Or just take both of Dallas' goalies and add in a small cake topper or two for the 3rd overall then trade Tanev in a separate package ensuring we keep our depth garner a very high pick in return plus add back more in the Tanev trade

 

Philly isn't that desperate 

 

 

The Stars aren't desperate either though. They don't have any big contracts to hand out and they can just buy out one of their goalies and keep the other one as a backup. From what Stars fans are saying it seems like they have the space to keep all three goalies, it will just depend on if Nill wants to make a move or not. I think people are forgetting that the Stars main core of Seguin, Benn and Klingberg isn't all that old, its not like their window is closing any time soon.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Toews said:

The Stars aren't desperate either though. They don't have any big contracts to hand out and they can just buy out one of their goalies and keep the other one as a backup. From what Stars fans are saying it seems like they have the space to keep all three goalies, it will just depend on if Nill wants to make a move or not. I think people are forgetting that the Stars main core of Seguin, Benn and Klingberg isn't all that old, its not like their window is closing any time soon.

Thats it exactly. Niemi's buy out is really low too. COL needs the talent as much as we do. NJ is laughing and/or has pics of Bettman. 

 

Maybe there isn't a great option to move up, but if it isn't this year next year isn't getting any easier. 

[goblix]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

Exactly, but I have to admit Tanev would be a great complement to this young defensive core of Provorov, Morin, Hagg, Sanheim.  They can't all make the jump at the same time and eat big minutes rightaway.  In 3 years Tanev will be UFA and IMO much on the downhill, in 3 years most of these guys should be fully ready for full time top 4 job, including Gostisbehere.

 

But I don't think Philly is that desperate for a cap dump to trade their 2nd overall.

The problem with all of those great defensive prospects there is that they are all LHD!!

they really lack RHD depth and anytime you are bringing up a youthful defense a defensive specialist to take away hard PK minutes is quite desirable.

 

Provorov, Gostisbehere are already LHD roster players. Sanheim may be close behind. The time to push would be now while those first 2 are contributing and the Giroux, Simmonds, and Vorachek are in their primes.

[goblix]

11 minutes ago, Toews said:

The Stars aren't desperate either though. They don't have any big contracts to hand out and they can just buy out one of their goalies and keep the other one as a backup. From what Stars fans are saying it seems like they have the space to keep all three goalies, it will just depend on if Nill wants to make a move or not. I think people are forgetting that the Stars main core of Seguin, Benn and Klingberg isn't all that old, its not like their window is closing any time soon.

Dallas has quite a few RFAs to sign but they should be reasonable bridge deals. The biggest reason they will need to move a goalie is if they really want to go all in now and dip in the UFA market.

 

Seguin / Benn / Spezza is a pretty good top 6 framework

Klingberg / Lindell is a decent start on defense

Bishop should be better than the two jokers from last year lol

[Toews]

8 minutes ago, goblix said:

The problem with all of those great defensive prospects there is that they are all LHD!!

they really lack RHD depth and anytime you are bringing up a youthful defense a defensive specialist to take away hard PK minutes is quite desirable.

 

Provorov, Gostisbehere are already LHD roster players. Sanheim may be close behind. The time to push would be now while those first 2 are contributing and the Giroux, Simmonds, and Vorachek are in their primes.

Phillipe Myers is RHD and gets really underrated because he went undrafted. Scouts are finally recognizing his talent and he is starting to show up quite high in most prospect rankings. IMO Myers will end up better than Sanheim or Morin.

[Gaudette Celly]

25 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Its a move to ensure we get potential 1D and 1C to our rebuild now, those are undeniably our 2 biggest holes.

We are trading a proven top-pairing dman and top-6 forward AND a high 2nd for a potential top-pairing D who may turn out no better than the one we're giving up or a potential but nowhere guaranteed 1C.  That's more akin to gambling and yet paying a premium to do it. 

 

It's one thing to turn over declining and expiring assets for prospects and picks, but quite another to move a prime one for such things.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said:

We are trading a proven top-pairing dman and top-6 forward AND a high 2nd for a potential top-pairing D who may turn out no better than the one we're giving up or a potential but nowhere guaranteed 1C.  That's more akin to gambling and yet paying a premium to do it. 

 

It's one thing to turn over declining and expiring assets for prospects and picks, but quite another to move a prime one for such things.

Tanev isn't going to be our top pairing guy when we're competitive again. It makes no sense to me to keep him given where this team is at. Again, Baer is only a 2LW with us... what competitive top 6 does he crack?

 

Sure, its all potential right now but just based on age it makes more sense to gamble of Heiskanen or Hischier than hang on to Tanev imo.

[Me_]

2 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

Looking at the potential for moving up, to me it looks like PHI might be our best chance. They need D, they have an expensive F they'd like to dump and they're pretty stacked in terms of C talent with Giroux and Schenn. They have a salary anchor in Fillpula who we could slot in on the 3rd or 4th line, or we waive him down to Utica if he really is done. 

 

Would this get it done:

Tanev (4.445 cap)

Baer (1.850 cap)  

total cap aded 6.295 

33 oa pick

 

for:

2nd oa

Filppula - 5 mil cap dump

 

For an increase of just 1.295 mil PHI gets a big D upgrade and a much better LW producer in Baer, and then they still have 12 mil in cap space for a goalie and more D. 

 

Would this get it done, or if not what else would we need to add? 

 

You don't want to move up in this draft unless you're making a play for Patrick.

[goblix]

7 minutes ago, Toews said:

Phillipe Myers is RHD and gets really underrated because he went undrafted. Scouts are finally recognizing his talent and he is starting to show up quite high in most prospect rankings. IMO Myers will end up better than Sanheim or Morin.

Sure all of these guys are great for the future and maybe they take a big jump next year to their lineup but even if he shows up as a top 4 dman they will need more RHD top 4.

Also the defensive specialties that Tanev brings to a team really helps a young team move forward

[Toews]

6 minutes ago, goblix said:

Sure all of these guys are great for the future and maybe they take a big jump next year to their lineup but even if he shows up as a top 4 dman they will need more RHD top 4.

Also the defensive specialties that Tanev brings to a team really helps a young team move forward

They have Gudas on the right side as well who has impressed as well. Yes Philly's blue line is young but it is also promising. Myers will likely make the team next year. I just don't see them being desperate to add a RHD, especially if they lose #2 while doing it.

[Nucker 67]

I don't think it's worth it to try to move up. This draft seems to be a crapshoot (aside from Hischier and maybe Patrick) Canucks should try to trade Tanev for another mid 1st, keep our #5.  

[goblix]

1 minute ago, Toews said:

They have Gudas on the right side as well who has impressed as well. Yes Philly's blue line is young but it is also promising. Myers will likely make the team next year. I just don't see them being desperate to add a RHD, especially if they lose #2 while doing it.

Their defense make up currently is:

Provorov - MacDonald(LHD)

Manning - Gostisbehere(LHD)

Brennan - Gudas

Sanheim - Myers

Morin 

 

Gostisbehere played on the right side but still the prefers the left. MacDonald is pretty much a cap dump.

 

So with Myers in leaves

Provorov - ?

Gostisbehere - Gudas

Manning - Myers

 

So maybe they trade a LHD to fill the right side or maybe they keep Gostisbehere on the right ? I don't know but as a team I wouldn't bank on a 20 year old defenseman to make the NHL and make a lasting impact.

 

 

[timberz21]

55 minutes ago, goblix said:

The problem with all of those great defensive prospects there is that they are all LHD!!

they really lack RHD depth and anytime you are bringing up a youthful defense a defensive specialist to take away hard PK minutes is quite desirable.

 

Provorov, Gostisbehere are already LHD roster players. Sanheim may be close behind. The time to push would be now while those first 2 are contributing and the Giroux, Simmonds, and Vorachek are in their primes.

If RHD is their concerns, pretty sure they wouldn't use their 2nd overall to acquire one.   The more logical move would be to move one of the LHD prospect for an established RHD.