Poll: Which 1st Round Defenders are Worthy of a Tanev Trade?

[westvandude]

So obviously a Tanev trade (and to a lesser & more optimistic extend, Edler trade) is all we are talking about these days. I'm curious to see which one of the expected 1st round defenders in this draft would you guys think is worth a more or less straight up trade with Tanev. The idea here is how low of a pick would you trade Tanev for to get at least the value of having him stick around in the team.

 

Tanev Value: experience/teach our future D core for next 2-3 years, and be part of the top 6 in the competitive team 3+ years from now

 

 

I'm basing my list off of the latest mock draft: https://www.nhl.com/news/guillame-lepage-second-mock-2017-nhl-draft-projections/c-289753990?tid=277764372

 

 

Here are the prospects quick summaries and expected pick slot for reference (so theoretically, you need to trade for a pick above the pick # so you can get that specific prospect):

 

 

4. Miro Heiskanen, D, HIFK (FIN) (Colorado Avalanche pick)

The Avalanche need a good, two-way defenseman, and Heiskanen (6-0, 170) fits the bill perfectly. He opened a lot of eyes at the 2017 IIHF World Under-18 Championship with 12 points (two goals, 10 assists) in seven games and was named the tournament's best defenseman.

 

9. Cale Makar, D, Brooks (AJHL) (Detroit Red Wings pick)

If you only looked at his size (5-11, 180), Makar would not appear to be the most attractive NHL defense prospect. But he's very mobile, uses his high-end skating ability to get the play moving toward the offensive end, and his intelligence helps makes up for his size. Glass improved steadily all season and finished with 75 points (24 goals, 51 assists) in 54 games.

 

12. Timothy Liljegren, D, Rogle (SWE) (Carolina Hurricanes pick)

Liljegren (6-0, 191) came into this season considered by some scouts to be the top defenseman in the draft. But he missed the first two months with mononucleosis and had trouble finding his rhythm upon his return. However, his skills as an offensive-minded defenseman are obvious, and Liljegren has a very high ceiling. He has been compared to Ottawa Senators defenseman Erik Karlsson.

 

14. Juuso Valimaki, D, Tri-City (WHL) (Tampa Bay Lightning pick)

The Finland-born defenseman has an intriguing mix of speed and mobility that allows him to join the attack. He had 61 points (19 goals, 42 assists) in 60 games, seventh among WHL defensemen. In addition to his vision and ability to quickly transition from defense to offense, his size (6-2, 204) makes him an imposing figure protecting his net.

 

16. Callan Foote, D, Kelowna (WHL) (Calgary Flames pick)

Intelligence and vision are the calling cards of this massive (6-4, 212) defenseman. He has shutdown abilities in his own zone because of his strong positioning and also can contribute offensively, as his 57 points (six goals, 51 assists) in 71 games indicate.

 

17. Nicolas Hague, D, Mississauga (OHL) (Toronto Maple Leafs pick)

With their prospect pool overflowing at forward, the Maple Leafs won't be able to resist taking this big body (6-6, 215) to patrol their blue line in the near future. Hague's long reach causes problems for opposing forwards, and he has the skill to be useful on the power play. He had 46 points (18 goals, 28 assists) in 65 games.

 

27. Conor Timmins, D, Sault Ste. Marie (OHL) (St. Louis Blues (via Washington Capitals) pick)

The right-handed defenseman (6-1, 185) has a natural instinct to his game that allows him to jump up in the play and create offensively. He improved throughout the season and eventually became Sault Ste. Marie's offensive driver from the back end with 61 points (seven goals, 54 assists) in 67 games.

 

30. Henri Jokiharju, D, Portland (WHL) (Nashville/Pittsburgh pick)

In his first season in North America, the Finland-born defenseman had a slow start but took off after Christmas; he finished the season with 48 points (nine goals, 39 assists) in 71 games. Jokiharju's fluid skating stride and his speed help him in the transition game, and he is an excellent passer.

[JM_]

I said "none" not because some of these guys won't be as good as Tanev potentially, but because we should be able to get a prospect much further along in their development and we need more guys with top 6 potential imo.

[Fanuck]

Rasmus Dahlin

Forget trading up/down this year unless a complete OVERPAYMENT is offered up.

JB should be doing everything he can to secure more picks in 2018 with Dahlin being the target through either the lottery or stockpiling picks to secure moving up in the draft when we inevitably get screwed by the NHL in the lottery again. 

 

 

[Toews]

Heiskanen and Makar for me. Both have top pairing upside and if they hit that upside the Canucks win this trade hands down. For one you are getting 7-8 years of ELC/RFA control. Being younger they will absolutely be a part of the future D core. And finally they are offensive defenseman, something that is a need.

 

17 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Rasmus Dahlin

Forget trading up/down this year unless a complete OVERPAYMENT is offered up.

JB should be doing everything he can to secure more picks in 2018 with Dahlin being the target through either the lottery or stockpiling picks to secure moving up in the draft when we inevitably get screwed by the NHL in the lottery again. 

 

 

Any team willing to move their pick will likely protect it. With the new lottery format, teams are being more careful than ever with their 1st round picks.

[Nucker 67]

Some think Tanev is worth a #4 OA straight up? lol

 

#14 - Valimaki

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

I said "none" not because some of these guys won't be as good as Tanev potentially, but because we should be able to get a prospect much further along in their development and we need more guys with top 6 potential imo.

I checked two off, but only because I would expect another prospect coming our way too.  I agree straight up it wouldn't be wise to trade a bona fide top four or average number two defenseman in his prime with a very good cap hit for a lottery ticket unless it was a for sure thing....none of these guys are for sure things past maybe a for sure depth guy.

[VegasCanuck]

I voted for None of them for one big reason:

 

NONE of these guys are proven NHL'ers. There is potential with them, but any of these guys can be a total bust in the NHL. Its incredible how many fans forget that no matter how high you draft a 17 or 18 yr old kid, there's NO guarantee that they will ever become more than an AHL player.

 

If we are going to move Tanev, I would far rather its for someone who is already starting to prove that they can play at NHL level.

 

 

 

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I checked two off, but only because I would expect another prospect coming our way too.  I agree straight up it wouldn't be wise to trade a bona fide top four or average number two defenseman in his prime with a very good cap hit for a lottery ticket unless it was a for sure thing....none of these guys are for sure things past maybe a for sure depth guy.

Apparently Friedman is playing up the Tanev trade potential today. I'm glad Jim is raising the bar, and if we end up with a 2018 pick and prospect from a trade later this year thats just fine too. 

 

 

 

[scheif16]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Some think Tanev is worth a #4 OA straight up? lol

 

#14 - Valimaki

When the right offer isn't coming then we rather keep him. Could flip him at the next deadline or next summer.

A solid, proven Dmen with a reasonable Contract isn't worth the risk of a #14 pick in a "weaker" draft. You have to include a good prospect when you want get it done with the #14 pick...

[Nucksfan3322]

20 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Rasmus Dahlin

Forget trading up/down this year unless a complete OVERPAYMENT is offered up.

JB should be doing everything he can to secure more picks in 2018 with Dahlin being the target through either the lottery or stockpiling picks to secure moving up in the draft when we inevitably get screwed by the NHL in the lottery again. 

 

 

Wish list players are all over the top 5 next year. I'm thinking the trade to dal for 3rd will speed us up in the rebuild while losing tanev will make is worse and better our odds at a top pick so it's a win win in my books. 

[TheGuardian_]

Apples and Oranges.

Defence for Forward, maybe but it makes no sense to go for a dman for dman.

Defence take longer to make a dent that is one reason they are worth so much.

 

That is also why it makes defence men "safe" draft picks because they "sell" them for years in development/hope. 

[Rob_Zepp]

So, you are willing to trade the Canucks' first round pick for a Dman with 2 goals and 10 points who is 10 years or so older than the prospect you will pick?    

 

That is what you are asking of other teams.   

[TheGuardian_]

31 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

So, you are willing to trade the Canucks' first round pick for a Dman with 2 goals and 10 points who is 10 years or so older than the prospect you will pick?    

 

That is what you are asking of other teams.   

Have you looked at Larsson's stats? Hall for Larsson?

 

The Canuck 1rst pick should be used to trade for a scoring forward not another dman, packaged what ever.

Tanev is still thought of as being very valuable in the NHL, right handed to boot.

[westvandude]

I don't understand the percentages on the vote count... for a "multiple choice" poll, if 26 people have voted for the top choice (heiskenin) out of the 62 members that voted, the % of people that thought a straight up trade of Tanev for #3 pick is good for Cancuks is 42% (26 divided by 62) not 26%!

 

Also, maybe I wasn't clear about my poll question, but the idea is, if an offer was available for the Canucks for a straight up Tanev for pick #, would you have taken that trade. It's not if that is a realistic offer or if it makes sense for the other team. I'm just trying to see how much do the fans here value Tanev based on this year's picks given what other D we can get for that pick.

 

With this explanation, and the actual % as I've calculated above, then approximate 60% of people here think Tanev is worth more than Heiskenin. So majority wouldn't want a trade even for as high as #3 pick unless we get more in return. Is this the correct conclusion?

[kloubek]

I understand what the op is trying to get at, but it is impossible to compare a well seasoned and developed player who plays an elite but 1 dimensional role with a player who might have way more tools but might never see a game in the NHL.  There are just too many variables.

 

So if the question is simply what position of pick do we think Tanev is worth one on one in a draft that offers few assurances, if say 6th OA maybe?  5th at the most.  And that's obviously only in a case where a GM truly values the deep stats.

[westvandude]

13 hours ago, kloubek said:

I understand what the op is trying to get at, but it is impossible to compare a well seasoned and developed player who plays an elite but 1 dimensional role with a player who might have way more tools but might never see a game in the NHL.  There are just too many variables.

 

So if the question is simply what position of pick do we think Tanev is worth one on one in a draft that offers few assurances, if say 6th OA maybe?  5th at the most.  And that's obviously only in a case where a GM truly values the deep stats.

Yes I agree it's hard to compare with a good degree of assurance, but the idea here is that if you had to make that decision given whatever you know right now of the value of Tanev vs any of these prospects (the value would of course include the risk of the young prospect actually achieving his potential) and considering Canuck's stage in rebuilding (so results don't really matter in the next 2-3 years, and hoping to become and stay competitive for a good 5-7 years after that).

[kloubek]

1 hour ago, westvandude said:

Yes I agree it's hard to compare with a good degree of assurance, but the idea here is that if you had to make that decision given whatever you know right now of the value of Tanev vs any of these prospects (the value would of course include the risk of the young prospect actually achieving his potential) and considering Canuck's stage in rebuilding (so results don't really matter in the next 2-3 years, and hoping to become and stay competitive for a good 5-7 years after that).

I honestly think few of us are properly prepared to answer that question.  We've all know their rankings, and most of us have read the scouting reports..  Maybe some of us have watched highlights and fewer yet have actually seen some of these guys play in person.  In the end, the talent is high enough over what will likely be the top 10 picks that some of those guys most certainly will be excellent NHL players.  But which ones?  Good team scouting helps, but can only go so far.  None of us are privy to who Benning might be leaning towards, or why.  This is why even if we did consider what we believe Tanev brings to the table, and even if we have formed opinions in who we hope is selected by the Canucks, it's still too big of a big toss-up what we will be getting in whichever player we select - let alone if they will realize their full potential.  

[westvandude]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

I honestly think few of us are properly prepared to answer that question.  We've all know their rankings, and most of us have read the scouting reports..  Maybe some of us have watched highlights and fewer yet have actually seen some of these guys play in person.  In the end, the talent is high enough over what will likely be the top 10 picks that some of those guys most certainly will be excellent NHL players.  But which ones?  Good team scouting helps, but can only go so far.  None of us are privy to who Benning might be leaning towards, or why.  This is why even if we did consider what we believe Tanev brings to the table, and even if we have formed opinions in who we hope is selected by the Canucks, it's still too big of a big toss-up what we will be getting in whichever player we select - let alone if they will realize their full potential.  

Well even in that case, what this poll would then show is what the fans prefer based on their limited information. For example, I thought most people here would have been ok with a mid 1st rounder for Tanev, but seems like it has to be high picks or even then they might still prefer to keep Tanev. That was an interesting stat for me personally.

[kloubek]

19 minutes ago, westvandude said:

Well even in that case, what this poll would then show is what the fans prefer based on their limited information. For example, I thought most people here would have been ok with a mid 1st rounder for Tanev, but seems like it has to be high picks or even then they might still prefer to keep Tanev. That was an interesting stat for me personally.

It is interesting to gain perspective of our fellow fans, of course, but most of us are just not prepared to make these calls because we don't know enough about these prospects to know what is coming from that side, and in addition we all weigh Tanev differently.  Someone who insists that a defenseman contributes to scoring will clearly not believe that he is worth much significant.  One who believes he is going to regress soon, gets paid too much for his 1-dimensional play, or is maybe starting to exhibit a predisposition to getting injured further muddles people's opinions.

 

In the end, my point is just that there are so many elements at play here that such a poll would generate across-the-board opinions and isn't particularly useful.  (As entertaining as the responses may be)