Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[khay]

9 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Bo Horvat isn't Trevor Linden.  Linden was more humble, a better producer, a great supporter of teammates, and a clutch performer.  

 

 He wants to be the Captain but he's simply not ready. The fact he wants it so bad upsets me.

When did he say such thing?

[Rush17]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

1) That's something a player earns.

 

2) I highly doubt that the organization would wait to see how Petterson feels about being captain before deciding who to give it to.

 

3) It makes sense to give it to a player with actual NHL experience versus someone who could potentially be a great NHLer down the road.

 

4) It's not about the future. as much as it is about giving the team a focal point outside of the coach. Someone who makes decisions on behalf of the team, and can rally everyone.

 

5) Team structure can change rapidly, year to year, so waiting until the next core is complete, is counterproductive.

 

6) Being passionate about the team and playing his ass off every night? Going to the dirty areas and busting his hump? If Horvat acted entitled and complained about not being given a letter, I'd consider it distasteful. Bo's a Canuck, through and through.

 

7) We'll have to see then.

1

1) Agree a player should earn it. Bo is one of maybe 4-6 players on this team that will be part of the core.  Is it fair he earns it before the others get a chance? (Edler for captain solves this).

 

2) Why would you rush such an important decision? They are talking about passing on the culture and legacy the Naslund, Sedins, Linden etc. Why rush the selection when you can wait and make the right pick long term.  If Elias comes in next season and produces 70 points and enters the conversation as you make Bo captain was that the right choice in hindsight?

 

3) Yes 100% Agree. (But.. Bo is one of the few in the future core who has that xp. that right should be earned by the peers you will be spending the future behind. Has more of an impact if you are voted the leader by the players you plan to contend with.  3/4's of this team will be gone before we deep in the postseason. So those votes shouldn't count.)

 

4) Edler fits that perfectly for the time being. He is the favourite for a player over the age of 26 on this team hands down @ 40%.  Let a fellow Swede and the Sedin triplet lead either as captain or as part of a A rotation group. (It's important not to be shortsighted.  Bo and Boeser are all we've had this season. Before Boeser all there was was Bo. We are looking at this to short term. Bo has represented hope and change. But he himself isn't the solution right now.)

 

5) Do not see it.  Team's are fluid like you said. but there is no need to rush things. (read above)

 

6) Agree Bo is a Canuck through and through.  But he would be better suited as an A captain like Kesler/Bieksa who could speak up and spark the team.  A captain's can provide energy and passion. Your Captain should even-keeled so the team doesn't experience as many ups and downs. If we're going to be successful we will have to replace our older players with younger players. you need a leader who can help teammates stay calm, focused, and instil confidence. Emotional leaders like Bo are good for getting the guys ready and going.  He is a terrific A captain imo. 

 

7) We shall have to wait and see.

 

 

[Rush17]

9 minutes ago, khay said:

lol if you had 10 billion, you can buy the Canucks and force the team to name Pettersson as the captain.

lol I don't think aquaman would let me. hes super rich.  We would need like 100 billion and give him 50 lol.

[Rush17]

27 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Brown had his 'C' stripped a few seasons ago in a very humiliating and public fashion.

If you stripped Bo of the C in 4 years time. It would likely make him feel like his image has been destroyed. he has dreamed of being a captain of an nhl franchise. his dad even says he's ready hes good to go.  (this was before they announced retirement).  to me he would be a great A. An amazing A Captain.)  The public humiliation could cause a divide in the room and Bo could request a trade.  Bo is a proud guy. I think that is why they didn't give him the A this year. So he didn't get his hopes up if the twins stepped aside.  Green sees him more as a shutdown or 1B guy I'm pretty sure.

[Rush17]

17 minutes ago, Darius71 said:

fair enough...my gaffe for not knowing they stripped him of the C (i hate the puke btw) ... Brown had the C when they won their cups and LA had higher point producers on the team.

 

Aside from what Fanuck said:

 

1) In the end im not sure why this conversation is taking place.  Implying Pettersson should be the C is nuts at this point - in my opinion.  Talk about piling pressure on a prospect that has done nothing in the NHL yet.  We are making assumptions of how he will behave in an NHL dressing room before he has even got here.  Lets let him develop without piling all these lofty expectations on the kid.  IM sure he will be fine, but why complicate matters.

 

2) Im not sure where Rush is getting the impression that Bo is not even keeled and is too emotional.  He doesnt like to lose and he has the ability to push back, he was also a great leader in Junior.

 

 

 

7

1) I agree its nuts to say he should be.  I also think its unfair and a tad silly to name Bo the de'facto captain. I personally think we should wait and let the next core come together and pick their own captain.  I believe Pettersson will be that person but that's just my opinion. I am just tired of the Bo for captain side story because it creates unfair pressure on the organization and gives Bo false hope.  he shouldn't expect to be the next captain.  I don't want Bo getting sour or thinking he did something wrong. I want Bo to know he is a leader and play a part. Let the future core decide who their leader is who best represents the culture of this team more naturally. Organically. 

 

2) It is from what I have seen on the ice. What the media has said.  He cares too much and you can see him go inwards to try and find a solution. He needs to prop teammates up and instil confidence. I don't believe he is comfortable enough with his game yet to do that. That is a lot to ask for a 4th-year player trying to find his way in the NHL. He has had enough of a challenge trying to be our top line C on a bottom feeder team. Burrows was a great emotional leader. Dahlen, Bo, and Juolevi will likely fit this role very well based on their personalities.

 

I would argue Brock Boeser and Elias Pettersson are more even-keeled than the others. they are just different style leaders. it's a personality thing. Seeing Bo slap shot the puck off the boards in frustration during our losing streak was a sign. If Henrik did that how would the team of felt? deflated, the kids would feel they were failures, and the team would of just sunk further into the depths of darkness. The twins kept it upbeat and positive and we managed to turn it around and put together a tidy streak.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Rush17

[Rush17]

Here is a great article on the disadvantages of being an emotional leader. Which if you look at all the signs he is the heart and soul of this club. he is an emotional leader. The twins are even-keeled leaders who can help teammates out and keep them positive in dark times.  

 

This is a random website that talks about emotional leaders in business. it relates to hockey in a round about way. your leader is your captain.  

 

The Disadvantages of Emotional Leadership

 

Emotional leadership is commonly valued during transition periods for organizations or in companies struggling with low morale. Transformational and charismatic leaders are often renowned for their ability to "get the troops fired up." However, emotional leadership has some disadvantages relative to a more even-keeled, disciplined approach.

 

Impulsive

Leaders who operate from an emotional-first perspective tend to make more impulsive decisions. Rather than relying on hard data, facts, logic, reasoning and sound judgment, they commonly make decisions on first impressions or emotions. While impulsive decisions can sometimes work out, employees rely on leaders to set the tone for the company and to make decisions from a well-rounded, analytical point of view.

Feelings-Based

Effective leaders often have to achieve a higher level of self-control than typical employees. Whereas employees may get by with a feelings-first approach, leaders more often need to do what's right rather than what feels good in a particular situation. An emotional leader can get caught up making decisions based on feelings of revenge, frustration, sadness or over-zealousness. This can lead to unethical decisions at times, because emotional leaders are likely to make decisions that protect themselves and the company, as opposed to decisions that are inherently ethical or right.

Unbalanced

Followers of emotional leaders get frustrated and confused by the constant ebb and flow of emotions. Leaders who convey exuberance and happiness one day and are negative and pessimistic the next are hard to follow. Employees find them unapproachable and may find ways to avoid them for fear of catching them on a "bad day." Yelling at employees or crying in front of them on a regular basis contributes to the sense that leaders lack emotional control, making them difficult to follow.

Empathy not Sympathy

One of the qualities admired in leaders is their ability to empathize with others. Employees are often motivated by leaders when they feel the leader genuinely cares about them as people. However, empathy is quite different from sympathy. Leaders who sympathize too much with employees may cause employees to operate more from an emotionally driven foundation as opposed to weighing the pros and cons of competing options. Similarly, overly sympathetic leaders may allow employees to use feelings and problems as excuses to under-perform or to avoid requisite duties, which contributes to a conflicted workplace.

 

https://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/disadvantages-emotional-leadership-11104.html  (Not saying all of this applies to Bo. I wish there was a sports related example as it would be more easily digestable. This probably won't help most of you).

Edited April 6, 2018 by Rush17

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Rush17 said:

1) Agree a player should earn it. Bo is one of maybe 4-6 players on this team that will be part of the core.  Is it fair he earns it before the others get a chance? (Edler for captain solves this).

It's not about "fairness", as I don't think it's a competition where every player on the team submits a ballot. The team selects the next captain, along with insight from the coach.

Just now, Rush17 said:

2) Why would you rush such an important decision?

Choosing a captain within the next season or two isn't rushing the decision. Choosing after tomorrow's game is.

Just now, Rush17 said:

 They are talking about passing on the culture and legacy the Naslund, Sedins, Linden etc. Why rush the selection when you can wait and make the right pick long term.

Luongo? Team culture changes with each new core, so trying to encapsulate a culture going forward that has to be followed is detrimental and not a good plan. There has to be some fluidity allowed.

Just now, Rush17 said:

  If Elias comes in next season and produces 70 points and enters the conversation as you make Bo captain was that the right choice in hindsight?

 Yes. Let Elias concentrate on scoring. Don't apply pressure in his first year in the NHL (if that happens) with whispers of potential captaincy. Did it work well for Connor McDavid?

Just now, Rush17 said:

3) Yes 100% Agree. (But.. Bo is one of the few in the future core who has that xp. that right should be earned by the peers you will be spending the future behind. Has more of an impact if you are voted the leader by the players you plan to contend with.  3/4's of this team will be gone before we deep in the postseason. So those votes shouldn't count.)

That's how the captain is selected. Waiting for 5 years, and playing as a captainless team is not a good idea.

Just now, Rush17 said:

4) Edler fits that perfectly for the time being. He is the favourite for a player over the age of 26 on this team hands down @ 40%.  Let a fellow Swede and the Sedin triplet lead either as captain or as part of a A rotation group. (It's important not to be shortsighted.  Bo and Boeser are all we've had this season. Before Boeser all there was was Bo. We are looking at this to short term. Bo has represented hope and change. But he himself isn't the solution right now.)

I disagree. While Edler has had a great year, he might not want to re-sign (or the team might choose not to) at the end of next season, so it would look pretty silly to give him the C for one season. That would be a short-sighted selection.

 

Basing the captaincy on nationality is also a mistake. Just because Edler is a Swede doesn't automatically make him captain material. A rotating group of A's is probably what will occur next season.

Just now, Rush17 said:

5) Do not see it.  Team's are fluid like you said. but there is no need to rush things. (read above)

Maybe it's your username, but this isn't about rushing things at all. Selecting a captain is about gauging the pulse of the team and determining who within the roster is best equipped to handle being the face of the team, and someone everyone else on the team respects.

Just now, Rush17 said:

6) Agree Bo is a Canuck through and through.  But he would be better suited as an A captain like Kesler/Bieksa who could speak up and spark the team.  A captain's can provide energy and passion. Your Captain should even-keeled so the team doesn't experience as many ups and downs. If we're going to be successful we will have to replace our older players with younger players. you need a leader who can help teammates stay calm, focused, and instil confidence. Emotional leaders like Bo are good for getting the guys ready and going.  He is a terrific A captain imo. 

The coach is also necessary in keeping the team on an even keel, more so than the captain. The team was frazzled when Bo and Sutter went down. Once they got back, the composure of the team settled, and then the injury bug struck.

Just now, Rush17 said:

7) We shall have to wait and see.

....yes.

[Rush17]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

1) It's not about "fairness", as I don't think it's a competition where every player on the team submits a ballot. The team selects the next captain, along with insight from the coach.

 

2) Choosing a captain within the next season or two isn't rushing the decision. Choosing after tomorrow's game is.

 

3) Luongo? Team culture changes with each new core, so trying to encapsulate a culture going forward that has to be followed is detrimental and not a good plan. There has to be some fluidity allowed.

 

 4) Yes. Let Elias concentrate on scoring. Don't apply pressure in his first year in the NHL (if that happens) with whispers of potential captaincy. Did it work well for Connor McDavid?

 

5) That's how the captain is selected. Waiting for 5 years, and playing as a captainless team is not a good idea.

 

6) I disagree. While Edler has had a great year, he might not want to re-sign (or the team might choose not to) at the end of next season, so it would look pretty silly to give him the C for one season. That would be a short-sighted selection.

 

7) Basing the captaincy on nationality is also a mistake. Just because Edler is a Swede doesn't automatically make him captain material. A rotating group of A's is probably what will occur next season.

 

8) Maybe it's your username, but this isn't about rushing things at all. Selecting a captain is about gauging the pulse of the team and determining who within the roster is best equipped to handle being the face of the team, and someone everyone else on the team respects.

 

9) The coach is also necessary in keeping the team on an even keel, more so than the captain. The team was frazzled when Bo and Sutter went down. Once they got back, the composure of the team settled, and then the injury bug struck.

....yes.

2

1) Agree it's not a ballot. It will likely come down to management, coaches, perhaps the twins might have a say. (since they will be hanging around town).  There is zero reason to rush it. Alex Edler would be a great stopgap captain in my and this forums opinion. (40% of the vote, Sutter and Guddy came 2nd around 21-23%).

 

2) I disagree. I think it is rushing it. Let the kids get up here. At least the blue chippers and see who best instils the values of what it means to be a canuck and who best can lead the way the Sedin's did.  You could rush it but I do not see the point. IMO that would be rushing it.

 

3) If you want to win back to back stanley cup championing teams. it's important your team has a great leader; not just a good leader.  (stripping Bo of the C if he isn't that guy in 4 years is just a bad idea.  Give it to Edler or let a few guys run the team for a bit.  More teams are doing this now more than ever.  if bo is the right guy he can get it when he can handle it.  The media in this town, plus trying to produce more points with the twins gone could totally crush his confidence.  especially if he's expected to lead. id like to keep horvat on the upwards trajectory he's on. not ruin him from unfair expectations and pressures from the media.  Besides, I don't think he's ready in a lot of his teammate's eyes.  This isn't some blow joe organization. this franchise has had some of the best leadership in the league. Watch all the videos of the Swedish players talking about their leadership)

 

4) Agree let him focus on his game.  (I'm only saying I think he's the guy. I don't want the media or the fanbase clammering any of these guys is the next C. It will only set them up for disappointment if they do not get it.  I want a happy Bo.  Honestly, this situation is due to the lack of promising prospects and the media trying to name a successor. It shouldn't even be a discussion yet.

 

5) As said above. Edler as a temp captain. He can pass the reigns off whenever the successor is ready. Edler would gladly give up the C if another guy was ready.  He would find it an honour to even wear it for 2 seasons. Edler is a team-first guy, highly experienced, and our best defender.

 

6) Edler wants to be in Vancouver. If they offer him the C they would likely bring back Hansen a close buddy to make him more comfortable. He loves this city, his family is comfortable here, the twins will be here to guide him along.  (They plan on going to the rink for coffee with the guys regularly)

 

7) 100% agree. shouldn't base it on nationality.  Edler is just the most experienced player on our team and instil's similar values as the twins.  He's been a long time A captain on this team.  He is the natural fit because the other veterans are mostly castoffs or underperformers for their contracts.

 

8) Not a lot of people know this but my username is based off my last name.  

 

9) Agree the coach is involved. But why put that pressure on Bo? How is he going to handle a 10 game losing skid?  It's entirely possible without the twins if we get injuries.  Give the burden to someone more experienced and let Bo learn from the veterans. He still has a lot to learn he's only 23.

 

[Rush17]

23 and 1 day old

[aGENT]

Just now, Rush17 said:

23 and 1 day old

Hell of a birthday last night eh? 

[Silky mitts]

I could’ve sworn this is the EP thread

[Rush17]

Just now, aGENT said:

Hell of a birthday last night eh? 

you know it! I will remember that one for a long time! 

[Rush17]

Just now, Silky mitts said:

I could’ve sworn this is the EP thread

I think it was meant to be. then I showed up lol.  wasn't on purpose.  It's been sitting on my chest for the past 2 days eating at it. Just happened to come out in this thread. my apologies. Check out his emotional reaction to Timra winning baby!!!  So happy for Elias and Johnathan!

[The Great Canucks]

24 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Here is a great article on the disadvantages of being an emotional leader. Which if you look at all the signs he is the heart and soul of this club. he is an emotional leader. The twins are even-keeled leaders who can help teammates out and keep them positive in dark times.  

 

This is a random website that talks about emotional leaders in business. it relates to hockey in a round about way. your leader is your captain.  

 

The Disadvantages of Emotional Leadership

 

Emotional leadership is commonly valued during transition periods for organizations or in companies struggling with low morale. Transformational and charismatic leaders are often renowned for their ability to "get the troops fired up." However, emotional leadership has some disadvantages relative to a more even-keeled, disciplined approach.

 

Impulsive

Leaders who operate from an emotional-first perspective tend to make more impulsive decisions. Rather than relying on hard data, facts, logic, reasoning and sound judgment, they commonly make decisions on first impressions or emotions. While impulsive decisions can sometimes work out, employees rely on leaders to set the tone for the company and to make decisions from a well-rounded, analytical point of view.

Feelings-Based

Effective leaders often have to achieve a higher level of self-control than typical employees. Whereas employees may get by with a feelings-first approach, leaders more often need to do what's right rather than what feels good in a particular situation. An emotional leader can get caught up making decisions based on feelings of revenge, frustration, sadness or over-zealousness. This can lead to unethical decisions at times, because emotional leaders are likely to make decisions that protect themselves and the company, as opposed to decisions that are inherently ethical or right.

Unbalanced

Followers of emotional leaders get frustrated and confused by the constant ebb and flow of emotions. Leaders who convey exuberance and happiness one day and are negative and pessimistic the next are hard to follow. Employees find them unapproachable and may find ways to avoid them for fear of catching them on a "bad day." Yelling at employees or crying in front of them on a regular basis contributes to the sense that leaders lack emotional control, making them difficult to follow.

Empathy not Sympathy

One of the qualities admired in leaders is their ability to empathize with others. Employees are often motivated by leaders when they feel the leader genuinely cares about them as people. However, empathy is quite different from sympathy. Leaders who sympathize too much with employees may cause employees to operate more from an emotionally driven foundation as opposed to weighing the pros and cons of competing options. Similarly, overly sympathetic leaders may allow employees to use feelings and problems as excuses to under-perform or to avoid requisite duties, which contributes to a conflicted workplace.

 

https://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/disadvantages-emotional-leadership-11104.html  (Not saying all of this applies to Bo. I wish there was a sports related example as it would be more easily digestable. This probably won't help most of you).

Clearly we are watching different players, because you sure as hell aren't describing Bo.

[Rush17]

3 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said:

Clearly we are watching different players, because you sure as hell aren't describing Bo.

It is an example of what emotional leaders can be under certain circumstances.  Bo hasn't been put into a leadership position but he has shown to be an emotional heart and soul player for this team.  Bo needs time to figure out his game before adding the pressure of being a captain in a Canadian marketplace.  We have one of the most intense in Canada along with Montreal and Toronto.

 

(that website covers emotional leaders in business and the shortfalls they can have. not what bo is)

[Rush17]

This gets me so excited for Elias!!

 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, Rush17 said:

Typically captains are people who lead by example and can produce at a high level.  Pettersson is exactly that.

And Bo isn't?  It's clear he's the one who leads the charge on-ice, from back in the 2015 playoffs even.  He led the team in scoring last year, and increased his PPG again this year, 4th year straight.

 

1 hour ago, Rush17 said:

Perhaps he wants the opportunity to become the captain?

Now wait a minute, in the other thread you said:

 

On 4/3/2018 at 3:23 PM, Rush17 said:

There are 3 reasons I have main reservations of Bo being team captian.

 

1# he wants it bad.

And then:

 

Quote

#3 I don't believe he is ready.

So if he's not ready after 4 years in the NHL, then when would Elias be ready?  Are you suggesting now, and if not now how long, and in that time how do you know Bo won't be even more ready?

 

Not sure what your agenda is here, but the rationale doesn't hold water.

[Hairy Kneel]

Rush, you high brah.

[Darius]

17 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

It is an example of what emotional leaders can be under certain circumstances.  Bo hasn't been put into a leadership position but he has shown to be an emotional heart and soul player for this team.  Bo needs time to figure out his game before adding the pressure of being a captain in a Canadian marketplace.  We have one of the most intense in Canada along with Montreal and Toronto.

 

(that website covers emotional leaders in business and the shortfalls they can have. not what bo is)

What gets me Rush is that you are making all these assumptions about Bo (i still dont see where you get most of your observations from) while at the same time implying that Elias would be a better leader when you know absolutely nothing about how he will perform here or act in this pressure cooker of a market.

What I see in Bo is a guy who was picked top 10 in large part because of his leadership qualities, he worked on his deficiencies to the point where he has improved every year. He needed to improve on this skating, he got faster, he needed to improve in his face offs - he did that, he needed to improve on his offensive production - he did that, he needed to improve on a pretty bad plus minus - he did that.  Talk about setting an example for all the other guys coming here.

 

I love Pettersson, but including him in captaincy talk is far fetched at this point.  Too many unknown factors.  Not only that, as much as I loved the Sedins and I will miss them, one element I will not miss is the turn the other cheek gentelmanly way they dealt with being pushed around. In their early years the abuse was brutal at some points.  Knowing the type game Elias plays and the type of frame he has, will can he lead the team into a new cultural standard where "we wont be pushed around".  Let him score 100 points....cant wait to see him...but captain? I dont know....

 

Bo is the clear choice for me.   But no need to hijack this thread :-) Maybe time to start a topic like "Is Bo Ready" lol.....

[Brad Marchand]

6 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Not sure what your agenda is here, but the rationale doesn't hold water.

I'm guessing at this point that he's seeing what he wants to see in Horvat because of a predisposed bias towards Pettersson (not that I have any problem with either eventually becoming captain).

 

In any event, Elias seemed pretty pumped up when he found out Timra earned promotion: https://streamable.com/infah. It's in Swedish, so someone gave a brief transcription:

Quote

R=Reporter E=Elias

R: Ok, 3-0 in the series, but we're talking about the most important part. The first thing you asked when you came here was "How did Timrå do?" They won 2-0 and qualified for SHL. What do you say?

E: I'm getting a little emotional now. That club has helped me a lot to become the player I am today. So that they're back in SHL is fantastic.

R: What does Timrå mean in there, in here somewhere, where you've got large parts of your education?

E: Absolutely, absolutely. They mean a lot. Really f***ing much. I'm sorry for swearing.

R: I have to say, congratulations both to 3-0, goal, and also congratulations that Timrå went up, even if you represent Växjö.

E: Yeah, thanks a lot.