Whitehouse Visit

[Alflives]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Good point. Joel Ward mentioned that he might take a knee opening night. Could see Simmonds and Kane doing the same. 

Aren't these guys all Canadian though?

[Tystick]

20 hours ago, Undrafted said:

For you to say that racism is “rare” these days IS a sign of your white privilege.  The reason why YOU don’t think racism is a real thing is because you ARE white and it doesn’t happen to YOU or anyone around you.  I find your statement about “hard-working black people” completely disingenuous because I don’t believe for a second you actually know a black person personally because if you did, they’d tell you otherwise.

 

And that’s the problem with the Crosby and the Pens.  They desperately want to be politically “neutral”, but:

1) being “neutral” on racial issues is already a form of white privilege—like you, it doesn’t affect them or anyone they know personally, and

2) the current political climate generated by 45 means there is no “safe middle ground” for the Crosby, the Pens and the NHL to hide in.  Again, if you don’t condemn what’s going on, you’re condoning it

 

---

Like I said, I’m NOT white.  Racism is worse now than it has been for decades, it’s as bad as it was during the mid-80s, maybe worse.  I don’t have to watch CNN or whatever to know that—I live with it everyday.  I HAVE been arrested as a young man just for being the wrong colour and not just once or twice.  I have constantly had my opinions dismissed because of my colour, even when it comes to something as mundane as hockey—I can’t count the number of times some white guy said to me, “WTF do YOUR people know about hockey???  Shut the hell up!”

 

And if you don't think 45 has been inciting and encouraging racism: well, you're hiding your head in the sand and ignoring the obvious.  That or you have a five-second attention span and have already forgotten Charlottesville, Arpaio and numerous other things.

 

 Hey thanks for the reply! If I can request that we keep this to fewer points I'd appreciate it. The long posts are irritating. I'll debate everything with you, but I'd prefer to speak on one subject at a time. We're no longer just debating the anthem protest. 

 

Okay first of all, you're insinuating that because I'm white, I can't speak on this subject. That in itself is racist, and I find that hilarious coming from someone fighting racism. Would my arguments be better if I told you I was actually black? 

 

I don't know why you're saying racism doesn't affect me. I experience racism often when I'm debating a minority group. I just experienced it from you in your last paragraph. The difference is I don't try to ruin the country because of it. 

 

Crosby and many people don't want to say anything because they're afraid of being called racist by people like yourself when in actuality the majority of North America is not racist and is on anti-racism side. The thing is, the media gaslights everyone into thinking it's much larger than it is. So, people hold hands and take a knee in support, but there's no Nazi's roaming the streets, so this is a largely ineffective protest and it's more of an attention seeking trend versus an actual fight against racism/police brutality.  

 

And please stop saying I have white privilege. It's such a ridiculous claim. The color of my skin does not give me any extra benefit over black folk. We all have equal opportunity. The inequalities out there (homes owned, education, wealth, crime rates) are largely the fault of individual families, not making the correct decisions to build better lives for themselves. Everyone has the freedom of choice. No one is stopping anyone from doing anything. They can all decide to change their lives right now if they wanted too. The problem is people are just lazy and want to play the race card to get handouts from the government. Socialism has never been proven to be effective and has always fallen apart. That's why I don't support it. 

 

Hey I'm sorry that happened to you, but can we agree that is a small amount of people compared to the millions of average and respectful people you have talked to in your life time? I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Those people suck, but they're allowed to say what they want. That's the freedom every one of us has. The answer isn't to arrest people for talking, the answer is to shame them into changing. I will shame them with you. It's up to you to stand up for yourself and rebut their arguments, because hateful, dumb people typically don't have a good one. 

 

Trump is not inciting racism, that's the left. He's very much not helping the situation, Trump does and says many things that are controversial, but the left (CNN) are the ones that turn it into something it's not. They've said he's never condemned Nazi's, yet he's on record countless times condemning them, but the media conveniently forget about that.  

 

Charlottesville was terrible, no one thinks it wasn't, but what Trump was trying to do was bring people's attention to the Antifa terrorist group, because the media doesn't like to condemn them. I agree he didn't help the situation, but this whole argument is trying to prove Trump is racist, which he's not, he's just bad at giving press conferences. As for Arpaio, I'm not informed on this event and I need to do more research before I talk on this point. If you want to talk about it let me know and I'll inform myself on the situation. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Alflives said:

Aren't these guys all Canadian though?

Who play and live in American cities. With the exception of Byfuglien, who is American playing in the most racist City in Canada. 

[chon derry]

up here on the north coast people have been silently talking about "free house's "  on reserve for natives and lots of people actually  were convinced that the house's were free ,well its not free ,up until about 15 years ago the standard and quality has improved, so has the required money you would have to put up, any way since land claims (nishga)  this was done to help the villages be not so reliant on the government ,now the gripe is about land claims and inclusion about pipe lines or what ever . any way this has impowered the all the bands ,can you imagine how hard it would be to  properly deal with all the problems facing the afro American. I don't think kaepernik ever thought this would go as viral as it has ,hopefully they'll be a more refined ,better thought out protest now that its captured everyones attention .so @189lb enforcers? what do you think ? can you imagine the afro American population turning the corner on racsism ,I beleave that the afro American is physically superior, they have been oppressed since they came as slaves,almost like the masses are scared of their success much like you see here. its seems to start with government here in Canada and their moving in the right direction ,so another 3 years of trump and his outrageous followers U.S.A. can properly run this country before trumps destroys it  edit.  @189lb enforcers?  racsism exsists ,but not for me ,yes I'm half native and I'm 58 but anybody around here white brown yellow knows it would be a mistake to personally attack me face to face with a rasist comment    society in my 58 years has NEVER been so polarized as it is know. I don't have any internet figures for you ,just my experiance from the school of hard knocks ,when I did experience smack talk that's what motivated me with hockey jrB srA  and the respect I received from those days long ago has followed me to this day.

[189lb enforcers?]

 

 

I am going fishing. This should do for now.

As for the B lies M...

 

 

this literally took 30 seconds.

 

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, chon derry said:

up here on the north coast people have been silently talking about "free house's "  on reserve for natives and lots of people actually  were convinced that the house's were free ,well its not free ,up until about 15 years ago the standard and quality has improved, so has the required money you would have to put up, any way since land claims (nishga)  this was done to help the villages be not so reliant on the government ,now the gripe is about land claims and inclusion about pipe lines or what ever . any way this has impowered the all the bands ,can you imagine how hard it would be to  properly deal with all the problems facing the afro American. I don't think kaepernik ever thought this would go as viral as it has ,hopefully they'll be a more refined ,better thought out protest now that its captured everyones attention .so @189lb enforcers? what do you think ? can you imagine the afro American population turning the corner on racsism ,I beleave that the afro American is physically superior, they have been oppressed since they came as slaves,almost like the masses are scared of their success much like you see here. its seems to start with government here in Canada and their moving in the right direction ,so another 3 years of trump and his outrageous followers U.S.A. can properly run this country before trumps destroys it  edit.  @189lb enforcers?  racsism exsists ,but not for me ,yes I'm half native and I'm 58 but anybody around here white brown yellow knows it would be a mistake to personally attack me face to face with a rasist comment    society in my 58 years has NEVER been so polarized as it is know. I don't have any internet figures for you ,just my experiance from the school of hard knocks ,when I did experience smack talk that's what motivated me with hockey jrB srA  and the respect I received from those days long ago has followed me to this day.

I'm a white 43 year-old poor white kid. No scholarships for that. There are scholarships for aboriginals though. Racism? Ya, from my side. 

 

Do you think you and I would ever treat each other as poorly as we are told we do? 

Nope. We are above this usery from the media. The kids though, they are growing up with an ear bud and an iPhone feeding them. I worry about our youth. 

 

At a Canucks game at Rogers, nobody sees colour, unless its the home and away sweaters. I hope it never changes. Racism, with a capital R, is dead. The media owners can't allow that, so here we are. 

 

Lucky you didn't play hockey in other countries where racism and racist policy is a bigger issue. 

 

Carving up that moose... with my aboriginal buddy. Nobody divided us! 

 

[Ronaldoescobar]

2 hours ago, Tystick said:

 Hey thanks for the reply! If I can request that we keep this to fewer points I'd appreciate it. The long posts are irritating. I'll debate everything with you, but I'd prefer to speak on one subject at a time. We're no longer just debating the anthem protest. 

 

Okay first of all, you're insinuating that because I'm white, I can't speak on this subject. That in itself is racist, and I find that hilarious coming from someone fighting racism. Would my arguments be better if I told you I was actually black? 

 

I don't know why you're saying racism doesn't affect me. I experience racism often when I'm debating a minority group. I just experienced it from you in your last paragraph. The difference is I don't try to ruin the country because of it. 

 

Crosby and many people don't want to say anything because they're afraid of being called racist by people like yourself when in actuality the majority of North America is not racist and is on anti-racism side. The thing is, the media gaslights everyone into thinking it's much larger than it is. So, people hold hands and take a knee in support, but there's no Nazi's roaming the streets, so this is a largely ineffective protest and it's more of an attention seeking trend versus an actual fight against racism/police brutality.  

 

And please stop saying I have white privilege. It's such a ridiculous claim. The color of my skin does not give me any extra benefit over black folk. We all have equal opportunity. The inequalities out there (homes owned, education, wealth, crime rates) are largely the fault of individual families, not making the correct decisions to build better lives for themselves. Everyone has the freedom of choice. No one is stopping anyone from doing anything. They can all decide to change their lives right now if they wanted too. The problem is people are just lazy and want to play the race card to get handouts from the government. Socialism has never been proven to be effective and has always fallen apart. That's why I don't support it. 

 

Hey I'm sorry that happened to you, but can we agree that is a small amount of people compared to the millions of average and respectful people you have talked to in your life time? I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Those people suck, but they're allowed to say what they want. That's the freedom every one of us has. The answer isn't to arrest people for talking, the answer is to shame them into changing. I will shame them with you. It's up to you to stand up for yourself and rebut their arguments, because hateful, dumb people typically don't have a good one. 

 

Trump is not inciting racism, that's the left. He's very much not helping the situation, Trump does and says many things that are controversial, but the left (CNN) are the ones that turn it into something it's not. They've said he's never condemned Nazi's, yet he's on record countless times condemning them, but the media conveniently forget about that.  

 

Charlottesville was terrible, no one thinks it wasn't, but what Trump was trying to do was bring people's attention to the Antifa terrorist group, because the media doesn't like to condemn them. I agree he didn't help the situation, but this whole argument is trying to prove Trump is racist, which he's not, he's just bad at giving press conferences. As for Arpaio, I'm not informed on this event and I need to do more research before I talk on this point. If you want to talk about it let me know and I'll inform myself on the situation. 

Good post although I think the generalizations have hampered your stance a bit:

 

"Okay first of all, you're insinuating that because I'm white, I can't speak on this subject. That in itself is racist, and I find that hilarious coming from someone fighting racism. Would my arguments be better if I told you I was actually black? ":  Absolutely bang on! 

 

I don't know why you're saying racism doesn't affect me. I experience racism often when I'm debating a minority group. I just experienced it from you in your last paragraph. The difference is I don't try to ruin the country because of it.: Good until the last sentence... I dont think anyone is trying to, or actually undertaking the ruining of the country and this statement could actually be construed as racist as well as it appears you are saying that minority groups are doing just this (just my interpretation from the way its worded just as with the above where you feel your opinion is being dismissed on this subject because you are white).

 

 "Trump is not inciting racism, that's the left."  This statement just as short sighted as those on the other side of the coin saying the opposite is true... There is racism on both sides of the fence and from all races (living as a white person in Richmond I can attest to this). I do agree Trump is not inciting racism and dont believe he ever has. 

 

"but the left (CNN) are the ones that turn it into something it's not"   While CNN is left leaning absolutely, and they cater to their audience and do slant their stories to fit that narrative, look no further to Fox News which has become Trump's propaganda wing for all intents and purposes and has had to recant quite a few reports (CNN the same) due to inaccuracies (something that is constantly shouted at CNN by Trump and his followers). What i absolutely hate is when people say FAKE NEWS... It is not fake news at all.. May be heavily slanted and only one side of the story but its not fake and I think its dangerous for Trump to keep saying this as his followers take his word as gospel pretty much.... Bottom line, people need to read both sides of the story to come to an informed conclusion which is definitely not happening these days.  ... 

 

The last paragraph on Charlottesville you nailed it when you said Trump didnt help the situation which I think is mainly due to his lack of experience in politics and his massive ego to think he is always right or on the right side of things and not because he is racist... While I do not agree that Antifa is a terrorist organization, I do believe that they have members who are extremely violent and do not help their cause whatsoever and the same can be said about BLM. That said, there is a time and a place to address this and Charlottesville was not it... What Trump probably should have done was been more diplomatic at the time and he could have condemned the white supremacists for the actions that one of their members took that day and said something along the lines of violence in return will absolutely not be tolerated, instead of coming out and saying people on both sides are bad (as true as it is).  Despite the intention it came across as disingenuous and a justification in many people minds. 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

7 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Good post although I think the generalizations have hampered your stance a bit:

 

"Okay first of all, you're insinuating that because I'm white, I can't speak on this subject. That in itself is racist, and I find that hilarious coming from someone fighting racism. Would my arguments be better if I told you I was actually black? ":  Absolutely bang on! 

 

I don't know why you're saying racism doesn't affect me. I experience racism often when I'm debating a minority group. I just experienced it from you in your last paragraph. The difference is I don't try to ruin the country because of it.: Good until the last sentence... I dont think anyone is trying to, or actually undertaking the ruining of the country and this statement could actually be construed as racist as well as it appears you are saying that minority groups are doing just this (just my interpretation from the way its worded just as with the above where you feel your opinion is being dismissed on this subject because you are white).

 

 "Trump is not inciting racism, that's the left."  This statement just as short sighted as those on the other side of the coin saying the opposite is true... There is racism on both sides of the fence and from all races (living as a white person in Richmond I can attest to this). I do agree Trump is not inciting racism and dont believe he ever has. 

 

"but the left (CNN) are the ones that turn it into something it's not"   While CNN is left leaning absolutely, and they cater to their audience and do slant their stories to fit that narrative, look no further to Fox News which has become Trump's propaganda wing for all intents and purposes and has had to recant quite a few reports (CNN the same) due to inaccuracies (something that is constantly shouted at CNN by Trump and his followers). What i absolutely hate is when people say FAKE NEWS... It is not fake news at all.. May be heavily slanted and only one side of the story but its not fake and I think its dangerous for Trump to keep saying this as his followers take his word as gospel pretty much.... Bottom line, people need to read both sides of the story to come to an informed conclusion which is definitely not happening these days.  ... 

 

The last paragraph on Charlottesville you nailed it when you said Trump didnt help the situation which I think is mainly due to his lack of experience in politics and his massive ego to think he is always right or on the right side of things and not because he is racist... While I do not agree that Antifa is a terrorist organization, I do believe that they have members who are extremely violent and do not help their cause whatsoever and the same can be said about BLM. That said, there is a time and a place to address this and Charlottesville was not it... What Trump probably should have done was been more diplomatic at the time and he could have condemned the white supremacists for the actions that one of their members took that day and said something along the lines of violence in return will absolutely not be tolerated, instead of coming out and saying people on both sides are bad (as true as it is).  Despite the intention it came across as disingenuous and a justification in many people minds. 

 

You don't believe in fake news? 

[chon derry]

43 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I'm a white 43 year-old poor white kid. No scholarships for that. There are scholarships for aboriginals though. Racism? Ya, from my side. 

 

Do you think you and I would ever treat each other as poorly as we are told we do? 

Nope. We are above this usery from the media. The kids though, they are growing up with an ear bud and an iPhone feeding them. I worry about our youth. 

 

At a Canucks game at Rogers, nobody sees colour, unless its the home and away sweaters. I hope it never changes. Racism, with a capital R, is dead. The media owners can't allow that, so here we are. 

 

Lucky you didn't play hockey in other countries where racism and racist policy is a bigger issue. 

 

I played in the pnwhl and racism was part of it and you had to have thick skin ,and you had to have scrap every now and then ,but trash talk is part of the game, I stopped playing jr b in Houston b.c. against the luckies who were a sr. A  team. as big a kid as I was I hit the wall against men.  the league was mixed ,so I had to wait 2 years to be eligible for a senior team.  it was kinda like hanson brothers hockey back then.  the CIHl league that we have now doesn't have the bs and race  thing like the pnwhl  did.

[189lb enforcers?]

5 minutes ago, chon derry said:

I played in the pnwhl and racism was part of it and you had to have thick skin ,and you had to have scrap every now and then ,but trash talk is part of the game, I stopped playing jr b in Houston b.c. against the luckies who were a sr. A  team. as big a kid as I was I hit the wall against men.  the league was mixed ,so I had to wait 2 years to be eligible for a senior team.  it was kinda like hanson brothers hockey back then.  the CIHl league that we have now doesn't have the bs and race  thing like the pnwhl  did.

Respect.

I could have played B too, but would have been a punching bag because I was 6'3 and 165lbs at 18 and didn't bulk up until my mid 20s. Love the old game and miss that kind of hockey. 

Imagine someone booing the anthem in one of our small, northern towns? There would be a beating. These days, folks are off the hook. 

[chon derry]

7 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Respect.

I could have played B too, but would have been a punching back because I was 6'3 and 165lbs at 18 and didn't bulk up until my mid 20s. Love the old game and miss that kind of hockey. 

Imagine someone booing the anthem in one of our small, northern towns? There would be a beating. These days, folks are off the hook. 

the one time ruperts team the kings went to the coy cup finals in innisfal ab. fans were throwing garbage cans down on our team, before the game even started.   to this day I don't know how we managed to get in and not the kangaroos, they were good.

[Toews]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

I was fan of Hillary, mostly because she's cute.  I do believe going to the White House is a personal choice, so I'm certainly okay with a player choosing to not go.  I remember when Tim Thomas refused Obama's invitation.  He actually got a lot of flack for that, but he did say it was his personal political views that kept him from going.  That's why it's surprising the actual visceral hatred directed towards the Pens for attending is shocking to me.  It's also saddening too, that people (who are likely good and fair) would lack openness in our (supposedly) accepting society. For that reason, I see this hatred towards the Pens' players for attending the White House as a contradiction.  There are those who are fighting for equality and acceptance of others, yet refuse to accept others will have different views and opinions.

Traditionally the visit to the White House has been an apolitical event. You go to the White House regardless of what your political views might be, you meet the President who honours your achievement. This has gone on for as long as I can remember, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barrack Obama have all hosted teams without any issue. Tim Thomas declining not to attend was him putting his politics ahead of what was essentially a team event and a time honoured tradition. There were some that criticized his decision, others respected his choice. Players have in the past declined to attend, Manny Ramirez comes to mind during George W. Bush's time as President. Each time it happens it causes a bit of controversy because you are supposed to let your politics take a backseat for one day and be with your team.

 

So why the controversy under Trump?

 

Simple because this is a man who has behaved in a way so outside the realm of how a President is supposed to act and behave. As a President you have to realize that you are the President of 300M+ people and not just the President of the people that voted for you or your base. Trump's behavior even during the campaign trail was reprehensible. Whether it was encouraging violence towards protesters at his rallies and telling his supporters that he would pay their legal fees if any legal ramifications came out of it. Whether it was insulting Prisoners of War by calling John McCain 'not a war hero' because 'he got caught', something that he has yet to apologize for. Whether it was slurring minorities by calling Mexicans murderers and rapists. Whether it was the Access Hollywood tape where he explicitly states that he grabs women by their private parts before receiving the consent to do so. Whether it is referring to people who are peacefully protesting as a "son of a bitch". Then there are the tweets...

Here is Trump tweeting an image that has been traced back to a white supremacist anti-Semitic website. The star in that image being the Star of David, a Jewish symbol.

 

Then there is this racist tweet which is blatantly false which Trump says he mistakenly thought was true. 

 

The above tweet is clearly a dog whistle for racists and white supremacists. 

 

Ask yourself why before Trump only a small % of players ever skipped the White House visit? Why was this not an issue under Reagan, or Clinton, H.W Bush or W. Bush? Why was it that before Trump athletes could say "I do not agree with the President's views but I respect him as a person"? I think everyone knows which side I lean towards in political debates but if I had the opportunity to meet with George Bush, I would definitely go and address him with respect. I was vehemently against the wars that he started, hundreds of thousands of people are dead due to his actions but despite that I still see George Bush as a decent human being as a person who made great inroads in the Hispanic community in order to bring them over into the Republican fold. George Bush as a President knew that it was his job to  unite the country and was willing to say and do the right things to ensure that happened. Donald Trump has repeatedly shown that he does not care about that, he will take sides, divide his country and pander to his base. He is fundamentally unfit to be President because he clearly does not understand his role and has so far failed to live up to the example set to him by those that came before him. With Trump people aren't just rejecting him because of his politics but also because of his lack of character and his disgraceful behavior.

[Ronaldoescobar]

30 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

You don't believe in fake news? 

I think things like the Star or National Enquirer are fake news but Fox or CNN despite their leanings are definitely not fake they just take a particular side of the story and focus on that. While I think Fox goes a bit further in this than CNN does they both do it and I would definitely not call either fake news. 

 

What I would like to see is the news stay totally impartial but I know that is not going to happen as it doesnt make them as much $$

 

Note: Only using Fox and CNN as examples but would say the same of any reputable news org. on both sides of the political spectrum. I also believe ts not just a US thing, this is applicable to any country.  

[Ronaldoescobar]

32 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Respect.

I could have played B too, but would have been a punching bag because I was 6'3 and 165lbs at 18 and didn't bulk up until my mid 20s. Love the old game and miss that kind of hockey. 

Imagine someone booing the anthem in one of our small, northern towns? There would be a beating. These days, folks are off the hook. 

Totally agree, and that is just disgraceful. In my opinion though booing the Anthem is a lot different than not singing or kneeling in protest (and I admit i may be one of the few with that opinion).

[tkanuk]

3 hours ago, Tystick said:

And please stop saying I have white privilege. It's such a ridiculous claim. The color of my skin does not give me any extra benefit over black folk. We all have equal opportunity. The inequalities out there (homes owned, education, wealth, crime rates) are largely the fault of individual families, not making the correct decisions to build better lives for themselves. Everyone has the freedom of choice. No one is stopping anyone from doing anything. They can all decide to change their lives right now if they wanted too. The problem is people are just lazy and want to play the race card to get handouts from the government 

I gotta take issue with this statement. Saying that everyone's equal ignores A TON of historical context. Was slavery solved? We're there no effects from removing First Nations from their lands? When women were given the vote did they automatically have the same opportunities as men? I don't think so. You have privilege, even if you can't see it. 

 

And saying that the inequalities out there are because of individual choices is suspect to me. Are young black men just more inclined to commit crimes? Are they inherently more violent? Are they dumber than white people, and so invest their money more unwisely? I hope you're not saying that. Because saying those things would be racist. 

[stuman491]

On 25/09/2017 at 11:01 AM, Sbriggs said:

I'm deeply disturbed that not only the Pittsburg Penguins are visiting the Whitehouse especially the fact Sid the Kid supports it. NHL Leadership is what is needed here, Sidney and the entire NHL and Canada as well should loudly let Scumbag Trump know we don't support racist views. Not surprising that white boy Matthews from TO supports Nascar and the trump point of view. I just heard on news that the reason the NHL is visiting and the NBA and future NFL are not is the NHL is a white league? How dumb is that. I don't want our game to be known for being a white league and a supporter of the Trump Whitehouse.

Not sure why you are getting negatives for that comment.  I agree with you that as a league the NHL should not be supporting a public figure who is promoting racism.  I do not want the NHL's fan base turn into the types of people who show up to the Charlottesville protests.  

[Undrafted]

5 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

First of all I am sorry for what you have had to deal with when it comes to racism, people just don't understand because they haven't experienced it  or feel it doesn't exist and any idiot can see and hear that Trump is  racist, sexist and a scumbag and if they can't then their too far gone to fix or should pack up and move to southern US where they belong. Crosby and the Pens will fall on the wrong side of  history if they go to the Whitehouse and I will loose respect for Crosby and any other Canadians on that team and I don't want that..

While appreciate your sentiments, I do want to take issue with your shot at people in the American South.  

 

Is the Southeast US more racist than other places?  Yes, of course.  But as I said in a post to Alf above, there are good people everywhere—it’s just that the number of racists, soft or hard, vary from place to place.  And in places where there are a lot of racists, even non-racist whites can be cowed into silence.

 

I’ll leave you with an example of a white Southerner who is strongly against racism:  An American friend of mine sent me this link about Dallas sportscaster Dale Hansen from ABC

 

https://deadspin.com/dallas-sportscaster-on-nfl-players-taking-a-knee-all-1818769991

 

Quote

Hansen, a Vietnam veteran, takes down the idea that the protests disrespect the country or the military:

“The young, black athletes are not disrespecting America or the military by taking a knee during the anthem. They are respecting the best thing about America. It’s a dog whistle to the racists among us to say otherwise.
They, and all of us, should protest how black Americans are treated in this country. And if you don’t think white privilege is a fact, you don’t understand America.”

 

[Tystick]

1 hour ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Good post although I think the generalizations have hampered your stance a bit:

 

"Okay first of all, you're insinuating that because I'm white, I can't speak on this subject. That in itself is racist, and I find that hilarious coming from someone fighting racism. Would my arguments be better if I told you I was actually black? ":  Absolutely bang on! 

 

I don't know why you're saying racism doesn't affect me. I experience racism often when I'm debating a minority group. I just experienced it from you in your last paragraph. The difference is I don't try to ruin the country because of it.: Good until the last sentence... I dont think anyone is trying to, or actually undertaking the ruining of the country and this statement could actually be construed as racist as well as it appears you are saying that minority groups are doing just this (just my interpretation from the way its worded just as with the above where you feel your opinion is being dismissed on this subject because you are white).

 

 "Trump is not inciting racism, that's the left."  This statement just as short sighted as those on the other side of the coin saying the opposite is true... There is racism on both sides of the fence and from all races (living as a white person in Richmond I can attest to this). I do agree Trump is not inciting racism and dont believe he ever has. 

 

"but the left (CNN) are the ones that turn it into something it's not"   While CNN is left leaning absolutely, and they cater to their audience and do slant their stories to fit that narrative, look no further to Fox News which has become Trump's propaganda wing for all intents and purposes and has had to recant quite a few reports (CNN the same) due to inaccuracies (something that is constantly shouted at CNN by Trump and his followers). What i absolutely hate is when people say FAKE NEWS... It is not fake news at all.. May be heavily slanted and only one side of the story but its not fake and I think its dangerous for Trump to keep saying this as his followers take his word as gospel pretty much.... Bottom line, people need to read both sides of the story to come to an informed conclusion which is definitely not happening these days.  ... 

 

The last paragraph on Charlottesville you nailed it when you said Trump didnt help the situation which I think is mainly due to his lack of experience in politics and his massive ego to think he is always right or on the right side of things and not because he is racist... While I do not agree that Antifa is a terrorist organization, I do believe that they have members who are extremely violent and do not help their cause whatsoever and the same can be said about BLM. That said, there is a time and a place to address this and Charlottesville was not it... What Trump probably should have done was been more diplomatic at the time and he could have condemned the white supremacists for the actions that one of their members took that day and said something along the lines of violence in return will absolutely not be tolerated, instead of coming out and saying people on both sides are bad (as true as it is).  Despite the intention it came across as disingenuous and a justification in many people minds. 

 

I appreciate the breakdown but I'm going to keep it short, I can't take these long posts anymore 

 

- Thank you for the kind words.

- The liberal left is ruining the country. They're creating mass hysteria, specifically the liberal media, and the liberals are eating it up.

- Okay sure, there are right leaning, minority, extremist groups. The majority of the left is perpetuating hysteria that isn't there. They're effectively keeping the idea of racism alive.

- CNN picks emotions they want to target and run with it. Fox analyzes in an emotionless way. I really don't care for either, but I don't mind watching Tucker.

 

Thanks for the reply, I'd be happy to debate or discuss anything with you, just keep it to a point or two 

[Undrafted]

4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Can you enlighten me please?  I'm really curious. 

In what way has your skin colour every held you back?

Have you ever not got a job due to your skin colour?

What about acceptance to school? What about a raise?

 

I believe individual racism exist but i'm more concerned about institutional racism instilled from the laws and gov't actions. What are your personal experiences with institutional racism?

TBH, your post made me really angry.  Not because of anything YOU said specifically:  But in asking me to relate my personal experiences, that meant remembering and reliving a lot of really, REALLY angry memories.  And at my age, that’s NOT a good thing for my health.

 

I thought long and hard about how to respond and in the end, I don’t think I want to write about those experiences.  I don’t know you, nor do I know your intent, but I do know that there are others here who would use the opportunity to both discredit and denigrate my experiences and I’m not going to allow them to do that.

 

I’ve already said I’ve been arrested and held without charge multiple times when I was younger, just for being the wrong colour—if that isn’t institutional racism, what is?

 

I will say this much however: you can’t compartmentalize racism into a personal, institutional and most importantly, cultural level.

 

The thing is, laws and gov’t actions/programs can be easily circumvented.  Taking legal action against racism takes time and money most people don’t have.  Moreover, the onus is always on the aggrieved party to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that racism IS a factor.  So for the most part, when we non-whites encounter racism, we don’t have a lot of realistic recourse.

[kingofsurrey]

White Privilege 

 

Sid should know better being from Coal Harbour which has had its share of racial incidents....