Popular Post ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2018 35 minutes ago, combover said: To say he’s only made one meaningfull miscue since he’s been here is just as far fetched as the ones saying everything he’s done is wrong. Yes all GM’s make mistakes, and whether they’re low level or not doesn’t mean they don’t happen. If people don’t feel like typing on them, then they shouldn’t. This is a hockey discussion and all hockey talk is fair game. Sadly there’s a group of posters that feel the need white knight anytime a mistake is brought up. That is until when someone goes through the work to provide undeniable evidence to prove that a move was a mistake. Then it gets reverted back to, “oh well, they were unimportant” or “in the big picture”. Pointing out low level mistakes doesn’t mean grab the pitch forks and chase the GM out of the town. WHL rocks didn’t even mention the exact instances. He just mentioned that they happened and someone already came to the defense. Low level or not, a mistake is a mistake. The problem is, there is an over sensitivity some people have with regards to criticism with this team, people take it to heart, as if someone just insulted their family member. It doesn’t even have to be criticism, the reader just has to perceive it as subliminal negativity. It’s a cardinal sin to just mention that Tkachuk/Sergachev/Nylander or Ehlers are good players, even when the topic has zero to do with discussing draft choices. Someone saying Ehler is a high end talent always has an underlining message that Virtanen in a bust. I’m hesitant to say Barzal is an exceptional rookie in the calder talk, as I know there will be backlash by someone taking that as a knock on Boeser. It was a real eye opener last year on this board, when people constantly came to the defense of WD’s decisions. They would make up every excuse as to why he was right to making a head scratching decision. That’s until WD was fired and very few came to WD’s defense. Some people will blindly follow Canucks members as if they are perfection, but as soon as their gone the loyalty dies. Jared McCann went from being a high end exciting rookie, a future top 6 scoring center, to a pouty kid, who’s a bust overnight 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Pointing out low level mistakes doesn’t mean grab the pitch forks and chase the GM out of the town. WHL rocks didn’t even mention the exact instances. He just mentioned that they happened and someone already came to the defense. Low level or not, a mistake is a mistake. The problem is, there is an over sensitivity some people have with regards to criticism with this team, people take it to heart, as if someone just insulted their family member. It doesn’t even have to be criticism, the reader just has to perceive it as subliminal negativity. It’s a cardinal sin to just mention that Tkachuk/Sergachev/Nylander or Ehlers are good players, even when the topic has zero to do with discussing draft choices. Someone saying Ehler is a high end talent always has an underlining message that Virtanen in a bust. I’m hesitant to say Barzal is an exceptional rookie in the calder talk, as I know there will be backlash by someone taking that as a knock on Boeser. Barzal was gone before the Canucks pick came up. Jake was always a long shot and there was a lot of other high end choices left on the table at 6th overall. No comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Just now, appleboy said: Barzal was gone before the Canucks pick came up. Jake was always a long shot and there was a lot of other high end choices left on the table at 6th overall. No comparison. That point had nothing to do with drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, combover said: To say he’s only made one meaningfull miscue since he’s been here is just as far fetched as the ones saying everything he’s done is wrong. i guess the 50 000 team fine for tampering, or the contract blunders don’t count either nor draft choice misses in the top 6 and expensive trades that haven’t planned out are all exceptable. I wonder of the ones signing his praises if he was the gm of Calgary or Edmonton and made the same moves how many would saying wow he sure is a great GM. Same if it was your money bleeding out with no results in the standing or attendance if you believe paying out everything he has paid out to be a perennial loser is still a good job. as you stated we are rebuilding he’s traded away 17 picks,yes he has acquired about the same number but if you’re “stocking up” should the number be much higher on the acquired side. owners see bottom line and results. 90mill committed to ufas in 4 season approx 280 mill in salary in that same time. A public statement to stay competitive and owners allowing him to spend to achieve that and its been a huge failure, not only is the team not competitive he has failed to create a team That people will pay to see. Owners hated this team got pushed around in 2011 kinda funny that team was ten times tougher and harder to play against than what benning has assembled and Im not talking about skill just grit and toughness. More of an coincidental rebuild than a stealth one and its closer to about 30% done. Hes done some good things so did nonis. CO There is no doubt that JB has made mistakes, but the team today, is a result of the Gillis years to some extent........... Gillis signed so many NTC/NMC's and it handcuffed the movement of vets, after the 2011 season. A lot of teams were issuing them. Some teams were able to get out of them some teams not! But it doesn't take much of a search to find the "don't trade the Sedin's and don't trade Burrows posts on here..........people fall in love with players, and the outcry would have been crazy.......... The Luongo/Schnieder fiasco, same thing................big contract, and a mess................ Same thing with Kessler and Schieder fiasco.................. The list goes on and on........................and again these NTC's really hammered us to an extreme................. Still today...................no don't trade the Sedin's. no don't trade Tanev...........................and it wasn't until after the Edler contract was signed and he declined somewhat, that a larger out cry happened about moving him.............. Sorry, Benning had a mess to figure out, and I am to this day, not sold that he hasn't been held back at some points, by upper management.........................I know, my past employer of 30+ years changed CEO and he was held back for the first year on any major moves...........................I think this is true with most company's when there is a changing of the guard. Benning has mad mistakes.................1 draft pick IMO.........the rest is subjective and has not concluded yet (prospects have not been promoted yet) that in it's self doesn't prove they are bad picks.................. Eriksson, looked good as someone said...................then fell off the cliff.............hardly a Benning fault...................what it he would have scored his last years production, each year? Would the contract have been worth it? What if it had extended the Sedin's years? You can't blame the guy for trying and the signs pointed to success.......... What if we signed Tavares to a 12 million NTC contract and his production falls dramatically? Is that Benning's fault? Don't think so! Benning has had to rebuild......................so far it looks decent, although, I think his decision to dig out of the basement came too early, but that is my Opinion........ The rebuild is moving along, and my only hope is Benning moves a few vets and picks up a couple more high end picks...............this year! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: That point had nothing to do with drafting. LOL Where you draft and whether you have access to a player has to come into it ? I guess they should have taken Mcjesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Yes all GM’s make mistakes, and whether they’re low level or not doesn’t mean they don’t happen. If people don’t feel like typing on them, then they shouldn’t. This is a hockey discussion and all hockey talk is fair game. Sadly there’s a group of posters that feel the need white knight anytime a mistake is brought up. That is until when someone goes through the work to provide undeniable evidence to prove that a move was a mistake. Then it gets reverted back to, “oh well, they were unimportant” or “in the big picture”. Pointing out low level mistakes doesn’t mean grab the pitch forks and chase the GM out of the town. WHL rocks didn’t even mention the exact instances. He just mentioned that they happened and someone already came to the defense. Low level or not, a mistake is a mistake. The problem is, there is an over sensitivity some people have with regards to criticism with this team, people take it to heart, as if someone just insulted their family member. It doesn’t even have to be criticism, the reader just has to perceive it as subliminal negativity. It’s a cardinal sin to just mention that Tkachuk/Sergachev/Nylander or Ehlers are good players, even when the topic has zero to do with discussing draft choices. Someone saying Ehler is a high end talent always has an underlining message that Virtanen in a bust. I’m hesitant to say Barzal is an exceptional rookie in the calder talk, as I know there will be backlash by someone taking that as a knock on Boeser. It was a real eye opener last year on this board, when people constantly came to the defense of WD’s decisions. They would make up every excuse as to why he was right to making a head scratching decision. That’s until WD was fired and very few came to WD’s defense. Some people will blindly follow Canucks members as if they are perfection, but as soon as their gone the loyalty dies. Jared McCann went from being a high end exciting rookie, a future top 6 scoring center, to a pouty kid, who’s a bust overnight Not to worried about McCann.........................but Tryamkin pisses me off, daily, and I feel Jimbo and Willie really screwed that one up...................if anything Benning should be whipped for that on.......just my opinion! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, appleboy said: LOL Where you draft and whether you have access to a player has to come into it ? I guess they should have taken Mcjesus What are you talking about? People diss barzal because he’s in direct competition with Brock in the Calder race. It has zero to do with who we should have taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, combover said: To say he’s only made one meaningfull miscue since he’s been here is just as far fetched as the ones saying everything he’s done is wrong. i guess the 50 000 team fine for tampering, or the contract blunders don’t count either nor draft choice misses in the top 6 and expensive trades that haven’t planned out are all exceptable. I wonder of the ones signing his praises if he was the gm of Calgary or Edmonton and made the same moves how many would saying wow he sure is a great GM. Same if it was your money bleeding out with no results in the standing or attendance if you believe paying out everything he has paid out to be a perennial loser is still a good job. as you stated we are rebuilding he’s traded away 17 picks,yes he has acquired about the same number but if you’re “stocking up” should the number be much higher on the acquired side. owners see bottom line and results. 90mill committed to ufas in 4 season approx 280 mill in salary in that same time. A public statement to stay competitive and owners allowing him to spend to achieve that and its been a huge failure, not only is the team not competitive he has failed to create a team That people will pay to see. Owners hated this team got pushed around in 2011 kinda funny that team was ten times tougher and harder to play against than what benning has assembled and Im not talking about skill just grit and toughness. More of an coincidental rebuild than a stealth one and its closer to about 30% done. Hes done some good things so did nonis. The entire problem for this organization starts at the top as they are the ones who set the overall direction. They spend to the cap, and that is great but now is not the time. Benning has brought in as many picks as he has traded but what he should have done was keep them all. Trying to stay competitive has set the rebuild back years and now they might bring in a new GM who may have the same agenda and we will see another 5 years of futility. I agree that the rebuild is at 30% and the thing is , if they continue to try and prop up this team we will see the existing young core quietly get older before there is enough talent to help them. (IE Edmonton.) Blow it up at this trade deadline and make it clear that we are in a full rebuild. Twins will be fine to fill for a year or two. Their focus needs to be picks for this years draft. No one on our D should be untouchable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: What are you talking about? People diss barzal because he’s in direct competition with Brock in the Calder race. It has zero to do with who we should have taken. I see , you are just focused on the people who like to whine and about everything with nothing backing it up. That is what this site is here for. Partly anyway. You just have to ignore that and laugh. There will always be a lot of emotions and frustration that will oohs onto this site. Hockey fans sometimes come here to just vent. Focus on the comments that make sense. I am no different then the others on here ,sometimes I am just frustrated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: What are you talking about? People diss barzal because he’s in direct competition with Brock in the Calder race. It has zero to do with who we should have taken. I certainly could have missed it but I haven't seen anyone dissing Barzal. I've seen people commenting that he's got an easier job putting up points (better team, better line mates, farther down the depth chart and hence playing against lower QOC etc, etc). Those people wouldn't be incorrect. That doesn't take away from the fact Barzal is a very talented young player. Also speaks well of Boeser that he's even in the same conversation points-wise being on a poor, injury riddled team in a 1st line role. He has far less to work with and until recently, was neck and neck for production. Good for him. Perhaps you're projecting things on other posters instead of actually reading and attempting to comprehend their points. Edited January 23, 2018 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 People are finally starting to realise how long re builds take. I've been saying for 2 or 3 years now that this is a 7 to 10 year process. And that's when things go mostly right. Or it takes even longer. For us we have at least 5 more years before our current prospects start to make meaningful difference toward becoming conteders. The likes of Pettersson , Lind and OJ will take time to develop and then 3 plus years before hitting full stride in the NHL. Some will take 5 years. Generally we have to wait until they are around 23 to 25 years old and established NHLers. A lot has to go right and we are a ways away yet. Sure we have some good prospects but not all make it. Virtanen and McCann were thought of as the same way some of the current kids are thought of now. Not all reach full potential. IMO JB should be given some time to keep building this team. Give him a 2 year extension and see where this team is then. But I'm not the owner and I'm not spending millions from my pocket. So I can understand if Aqas go in different direction. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: People are finally starting to realise how long re builds take. I've been saying for 2 or 3 years now that this is a 7 to 10 year process. And that's when things go mostly right. Or it takes even longer. For us we have at least 5 more years before our current prospects start to make meaningful difference toward becoming conteders. The likes of Pettersson , Lind and OJ will take time to develop and then 3 plus years before hitting full stride in the NHL. Some will take 5 years. Generally we have to wait until they are around 23 to 25 years old and established NHLers. A lot has to go right and we are a ways away yet. Sure we have some good prospects but not all make it. Virtanen and McCann were thought of as the same way some of the current kids are thought of now. Not all reach full potential. IMO JB should be given some time to keep building this team. Give him a 2 year extension and see where this team is then. But I'm not the owner and I'm not spending millions from my pocket. So I can understand if Aqas go in different direction. I'm honestly baffled at the people surprised by bottom 10 finishes 'still' as though we've had a decade long rebuild already. Do they honestly think ownership is so dim as to not understand the up/down cycle of a team? Yet there's righteous indignation that they'll let this continue as though they have any choice Baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: CO There is no doubt that JB has made mistakes, but the team today, is a result of the Gillis years to some extent........... Gillis signed so many NTC/NMC's and it handcuffed the movement of vets, after the 2011 season. A lot of teams were issuing them. Some teams were able to get out of them some teams not! But it doesn't take much of a search to find the "don't trade the Sedin's and don't trade Burrows posts on here..........people fall in love with players, and the outcry would have been crazy.......... The Luongo/Schnieder fiasco, same thing................big contract, and a mess................ Same thing with Kessler and Schieder fiasco.................. The list goes on and on........................and again these NTC's really hammered us to an extreme................. Still today...................no don't trade the Sedin's. no don't trade Tanev...........................and it wasn't until after the Edler contract was signed and he declined somewhat, that a larger out cry happened about moving him.............. Sorry, Benning had a mess to figure out, and I am to this day, not sold that he hasn't been held back at some points, by upper management.........................I know, my past employer of 30+ years changed CEO and he was held back for the first year on any major moves...........................I think this is true with most company's when there is a changing of the guard. Benning has mad mistakes.................1 draft pick IMO.........the rest is subjective and has not concluded yet (prospects have not been promoted yet) that in it's self doesn't prove they are bad picks.................. Eriksson, looked good as someone said...................then fell off the cliff.............hardly a Benning fault...................what it he would have scored his last years production, each year? Would the contract have been worth it? What if it had extended the Sedin's years? You can't blame the guy for trying and the signs pointed to success.......... What if we signed Tavares to a 12 million NTC contract and his production falls dramatically? Is that Benning's fault? Don't think so! Benning has had to rebuild......................so far it looks decent, although, I think his decision to dig out of the basement came too early, but that is my Opinion........ The rebuild is moving along, and my only hope is Benning moves a few vets and picks up a couple more high end picks...............this year! Yeah, I’d agree with most of that and I too feel it’s not all benning and he’s done some really good things. he was handcuffed with some contracts and NtC/nmc but that didn’t stop him from handing them out miller vrbata sutter ericson I think I’m missing some. So it self inflicted as well. And yes a decade of being the best team in franchise has a steep price yet be paid in full. And I’m on board with a full rebuild and have been since JB was hired, but it seems we’ve been doing is more like a patch work rebuild, stictching up and adding crutches to a team that when benning was hired was ready for a complete fire sale. And still 4 years later needs the same thing. We have some good prospects not nearly enough to think this thing is remotely close to turning around most still seem a year or more away from even competing for a spot. his first interview he and linden made it clear the tear down rebuild wasn’t the plan a competitive winning environment was the “plan” hard to argue that that plan wasn’t and isn’t a miserable failure since the team is niether. I don’t know what ownership is all about, all I know is they allow the gm to spend to the cap, so I’d think they’d expect results to show to some degree whether it’s the standing or attendance anything. tough to say who sold what weather owners found a gm they thought could pull off a “rebuild on the fly” or if benning came in with the pitch that he could turn this team around while still being respectable. Safe to say we haven’t achieved either. As for eriksson yea his production is terrible and yes it’s not jims fault, but what is jims fault is he signed a 30+ year old to an unmovable 6 year contract when the team is trying to get young and faster. And most agreed that it was a foolish move in hopes of reviving the sedins. It failed Again blame for failure is the Manger. The manger of any company says we should buy this super expensive product to make the older products more productive and it doesn’t chances are the manger is looking for a new job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) If Guddy does not get moved it will be the final....... in Bennings ........ No not Cuban democracy. Edited January 23, 2018 by appleboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, appleboy said: If Guddy does not get moved it will be the final....... in Bennings ........ No not Cuban democracy. Not getting much for him even if he does get moved. I'd say he's worth a 3rd. Some team might give up a 2nd but It's unlikely considering Guddy can't retrieve the puck, not a great skater and can't move the puck out of D zone with a great first pass. The game has changed significantly. A player like EG does not have value he once had. The game is all about speed and skill now. Look how PIT won the last two Cups, all speed and skill. And last year's finalist, NSH D core is all speed and skill. EG doesn't fit the mold of current day in demand Dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, combover said: but it seems we’ve been doing is more like a patch work rebuild, stictching up and adding crutches to a team that when benning was hired was ready for a complete fire sale. Matter of perception and opinion, not fact. Also ignores the reality that he may not have been able to hold a 'fire sale' IMO, the 'style' of rebuild is inconsequential and I have very little interest in seeing it debated ad nauseum on here more than it already has been. What matters is that the team IS being rebuilt. Not how/why/when etc. You may personally not like some of the answers to those but to deny it's happening is beyond willful ignorance. Horvat, Boeser, Baer, Granlund, Virtanen, Gaunce, Gudbranson, Stecher, Pouliot, Hutton, Tryamkin, Juolevi, Pettersson, Gaudette, Dahlen, Demko, DiPietro Goldobin, Lind, Gadjovich, Lockwood, Brisebois, Chatfield, MacEwan, Cassels etc, etc. There's actual youth there and more coming with more drafts. It's happening. The mistake is expecting it to be a finished product already or disappointed that it's not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, appleboy said: If Guddy does not get moved it will be the final....... in Bennings ........ No not Cuban democracy. Don’t forget vanek , that would be a terrible move to not trade him either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, appleboy said: If Guddy does not get moved it will be the final....... in Bennings ........ No not Cuban democracy. I'd prefer we re-sign him to a deal both sides can live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, aGENT said: I'd prefer we re-sign him to a deal both sides can live with. Why ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, appleboy said: Why ?????????? Because I don't share some of CDC's ignorant view of him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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