The Rebuild Kicked Off With Acquiring Bo, & Was Completed at 2019 Draft!

[dura_mater]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:21 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

It's been a tough slog, from June 2013, to here..so close, yet it feels so far.

 

Next yr is serious WCard contention!

I think you're in for a big surprise if you think they'll be competing for a WC spot next year.  I think it entirely depends on if the Sedins re-sign. 

I'm expecting the Canucks to be a bottom 5 team for at least 1 if not 2 more years (of course that changes if we get Dahlin).  I'm okay with that though, the next 2 drafts are suppose to be very strong.

[stawns]

49 minutes ago, dura_mater said:

I think you're in for a big surprise if you think they'll be competing for a WC spot next year.  I think it entirely depends on if the Sedins re-sign. 

I'm expecting the Canucks to be a bottom 5 team for at least 1 if not 2 more years (of course that changes if we get Dahlin).  I'm okay with that though, the next 2 drafts are suppose to be very strong.

If they had been healthy they would have been in the mix this year.

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

If they had been healthy they would have been in the mix this year.

Same could be said for each of the past 3 years, and counting. 

At some point, I call that mismanagement, unless it’s a Stealth Tank Plan. 

It cant be both.

[189lb enforcers?]

Tank next year.

Cull the roster back to ensure it happens, or just keep the cripples and the Sedins on it. 

 

Keep all of the kids together in Utica next year as much as possible. 

 

Build that franchise up for a few years by winning. Build something and let the Canucks truely bottom out. 

The kids will know how to win as a team by growing and winning together in Utica. 

 

The following year is a strike.

 

The kids will also have that year to grow as a team. Once the strike is over, that new core and team will tear out of the gates. No worry about a “competitive, winning environment” for them to learn the NHL game, if JB let’s this Canucks core die a natural death. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Personally surprised by how many posters I've seen pessimistic about next yr (?)..can easily see an Avs, NJ turnaround-season on the horizon. If twins hang 'em up(seems increasingly possible), we'll have a more speedy, 5-man cohesive, defending, hustling squad.

 

Virtanen - Horvat - Boeser

Petterson - Gaudette - Eriksson

Leipsic/Granny - Sutter - Archibald

Gaunce - StumpyGrinder - Motte the Hoople

 

Baer might go in pkg to shore up the D. Young & fast, baby.

[canuktravella]

6 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Personally surprised by how many posters I've seen pessimistic about next yr (?)..can easily see an Avs, NJ turnaround-season on the horizon. If twins hang 'em up(seems increasingly possible), we'll have a more speedy, 5-man cohesive, defending, hustling squad.

 

Virtanen - Horvat - Boeser

Petterson - Gaudette - Eriksson

Leipsic/Granny - Sutter - Archibald

Gaunce - StumpyGrinder - Motte the Hoople

 

Baer might go in pkg to shore up the D. Young & fast, baby.

kane horvat boeser

petersson sutter granny 

leipsic gaudette virtanen

gaunce               eriksson 

dahlen/lind/gaz/motte pushing for spots but helping utica win as well 

 

edler  boquist/dobson/dahlin  hope we draft 1 or 2 of these dmen

juolevi guddy

pouliot stecher

 

 

 

trade tanev  for a first 

and baertchi  for a young center who can win faceoffs for 4th line duty

 

[Baggins]

20 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Same could be said for each of the past 3 years, and counting. 

At some point, I call that mismanagement, unless it’s a Stealth Tank Plan. 

It cant be both.

Or it's simply the obvious answer: the result of numerous lengthy key injuries a rebuilding team simply can't overcome.

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Or it's simply the obvious answer: the result of numerous lengthy key injuries a rebuilding team simply can't overcome.

Symptom, not root. 

 

3 years of the same, predictable injury factors/contributors. 

Predictable = manageable.

 

You're an auditor? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by 189lb enforcers?

[DrJockitch]

I wish this were true but I just can't be that optimistic.  Too many years of this.

Some great prospects, really a 180 from when Benning took over.  Could be so much better though if he managed the professional side of the game as well as he has the amateur.

I just look at the group of prospects and see wingers, wingers and wingers.  Pettersen looks amazing but think he is going to be a winger in the pros.  I just look at the Ducks and think would this kid be able to line up against any of their centres from a physical perspective.  Gaudette may work out great but may not.  College kids are hard to predict. 

I think this board under-rates OJ as a D prospect but not sure there are any other even B level D prospects.  I hope Chatfield or Briseboise or MacKenzie work out but they are still big time projects.  Looking at the D prospects on other clubs that are already struggling to climb out of the cellar such as Carolina, we really look very, very thin.

Demko looks great but again, predicting goalies is so difficult.  Markstrom used to be one of the best prospects in the league.

So I see one really good prospect on D, C and G.  .  To assume that these are automatic locks to develop into top flight pros while playing on a team that is going to be awful for the next few years (because their pro NHL players just aren't that good) is a big assumption.  Sure there is a ton of really good winger prospects but try trading a winger for a centre or D man.

We have worked ourselves up to what most likely a 7th OA pick in the draft this year.  This is most likely getting us a B+ D prospect which will be a good addition but unless we start getting rid of some of the NHL guys for prospects or picks the process has a long way to go to make a Cup competitive team.  A little lottery luck would go a long way to helping as well but that seems even less likely than every prospect hitting what CDC thinks they will.

To try to be positive at the end, again I feel like our prospect pool has dramatically improved though is a little imbalanced.  Would love to see 5 rookies in the lineup next year with Gaudette, Pettersen, OJ, Demko and one of the other wingers.  If we happen to get lucky in the lottery that may be number 6.  I know this won't happen but a guy can wish.

[stawns]

20 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Personally surprised by how many posters I've seen pessimistic about next yr (?)..can easily see an Avs, NJ turnaround-season on the horizon. If twins hang 'em up(seems increasingly possible), we'll have a more speedy, 5-man cohesive, defending, hustling squad.

 

Virtanen - Horvat - Boeser

Petterson - Gaudette - Eriksson

Leipsic/Granny - Sutter - Archibald

Gaunce - StumpyGrinder - Motte the Hoople

 

Baer might go in pkg to shore up the D. Young & fast, baby.

kids never played a pro game and you have him pencilled in at 2nd line C?  I would say there is a much better chance he starts in Utica.

[stawns]

57 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I wish this were true but I just can't be that optimistic.  Too many years of this.

Some great prospects, really a 180 from when Benning took over.  Could be so much better though if he managed the professional side of the game as well as he has the amateur.

I just look at the group of prospects and see wingers, wingers and wingers.  Pettersen looks amazing but think he is going to be a winger in the pros.  I just look at the Ducks and think would this kid be able to line up against any of their centres from a physical perspective.  Gaudette may work out great but may not.  College kids are hard to predict. 

I think this board under-rates OJ as a D prospect but not sure there are any other even B level D prospects.  I hope Chatfield or Briseboise or MacKenzie work out but they are still big time projects.  Looking at the D prospects on other clubs that are already struggling to climb out of the cellar such as Carolina, we really look very, very thin.

Demko looks great but again, predicting goalies is so difficult.  Markstrom used to be one of the best prospects in the league.

So I see one really good prospect on D, C and G.  .  To assume that these are automatic locks to develop into top flight pros while playing on a team that is going to be awful for the next few years (because their pro NHL players just aren't that good) is a big assumption.  Sure there is a ton of really good winger prospects but try trading a winger for a centre or D man.

We have worked ourselves up to what most likely a 7th OA pick in the draft this year.  This is most likely getting us a B+ D prospect which will be a good addition but unless we start getting rid of some of the NHL guys for prospects or picks the process has a long way to go to make a Cup competitive team.  A little lottery luck would go a long way to helping as well but that seems even less likely than every prospect hitting what CDC thinks they will.

To try to be positive at the end, again I feel like our prospect pool has dramatically improved though is a little imbalanced.  Would love to see 5 rookies in the lineup next year with Gaudette, Pettersen, OJ, Demko and one of the other wingers.  If we happen to get lucky in the lottery that may be number 6.  I know this won't happen but a guy can wish.

I wouldn't call Breisbois a "project".  He's played very very well in Utica, as a 20 year old rookie.  Two more years and I feel he's a lock in the top 6 in Van.

[Nuxfanabroad]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

kids never played a pro game and you have him pencilled in at 2nd line C?  I would say there is a much better chance he starts in Utica.

The top 3 lines are matched up according to opponents. Prob be a FA(or 2), & the lines would change frequently with TG's whims.

 

The real question is the inspiring effect from StumpyGrinder?..over the top?!

[stawns]

24 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The top 3 lines are matched up according to opponents. Prob be a FA(or 2), & the lines would change frequently with TG's whims.

 

The real question is the inspiring effect from StumpyGrinder?..over the top?!

i heard he plays a great 200ft game

[aGENT]

5 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Symptom, not root. 

 

3 years of the same, predictable injury factors/contributors. 

Predictable = manageable.

 

You're an auditor? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not remotely comparable. 

 

If you own a restaurant as an example and your head chef, front line staff etc suck you can fire them and hire better ones. You don't have to draft them, wait for them to develop and have a salary cap preventing you from hiring a top chef. 

 

You really need to wrap your head around the fact that regardless of who was managing this team or what moves they made, this team had no prospects, no depth and with these injuries was going to suck. That's not 'mismanagement'. It takes time to draft, trade, sign and develop that back up. 

[189lb enforcers?]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

It's not remotely comparable. 

 

If you own a restaurant as an example and your head chef, front line staff etc suck you can fire them and hire better ones. You don't have to draft them, wait for them to develop and have a salary cap preventing you from hiring a top chef. 

 

You really need to wrap your head around the fact that regardless of who was managing this team or what moves they made, this team had no prospects, no depth and with these injuries was going to suck. That's not 'mismanagement'. It takes time to draft, trade, sign and develop that back up. 

If you can admit that it’s the same players being hurt over and over during the SlimJim era, I will respond.

Admit that there has been an injury pattern here for the past three years and we’re good to go. 

Baby steps. 

[189lb enforcers?]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

It's not remotely comparable. 

 

If you own a restaurant as an example and your head chef, front line staff etc suck you can fire them and hire better ones. You don't have to draft them, wait for them to develop and have a salary cap preventing you from hiring a top chef. 

 

You really need to wrap your head around the fact that regardless of who was managing this team or what moves they made, this team had no prospects, no depth and with these injuries was going to suck. That's not 'mismanagement'. It takes time to draft, trade, sign and develop that back up. 

If you had a crappy, seriously unreliable car, known to breakdown on the road, would you hop in it to drive to Mexico?

 

You’ve already done it once.

It was a disaster. Lots of breakdowns which screwed your trip.

 

You did it the following year with the same results.

 

In year three, you did it again?

You have nobody to blame except yourself. You’re poor choices were preventable. 

 

Even if you wanted to go to your crappy, metaphoric restaurant claim, you couldn’t get there in your notoriously unreliable vehicle. Everybody around you would suspect your sanity, by definition, at least. 

 

Injuries have ave been a trend here. JB’s job includes recognizing this and making changes. After 3 years of identical results, the kindest thing I could say here about JB is that he is insane. 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If you can admit that it’s the same players being hurt over and over during the SlimJim era, I will respond.

Admit that there has been an injury pattern here for the past three years and we’re good to go. 

Baby steps. 

Admit 

 

A couple of them, sure. But injuries aren't exclusive to the 'SlimJim' era on this team. We've long been a team with a high'ish number of injuries (likely at least partially due to the extra travel based on our local). I'd also argue they're partially a symptom of a rebuilding team, not management or personnel. Rebuilding (AKA bad) team = spend more time in own end without puck = injuries. Then you get those injuries with no quality depth to replace them and...

you spend even more time in your own end without the puck and... rinse, repeat.

 

Besides what's he supposed to do? Strong arm those couple guys in to mutually terminating their guaranteed contracts? Trade them for peanuts to replace them with our lackluster depth thanks to previous management? This what's ACTUALLY meant by 'injuries are a part of the game'.  It's simple reality that a rebuilding team will not be able to withstand them as well. 

 

Never mind that a LARGE portion of our injuries have been fluke nonsense with pucks/stick coming up in to faces, bad timing on bench gates etc. Those things aren't management, trainer or player dependent.

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If you had a crappy, seriously unreliable car, known to breakdown on the road, would you hop in it to drive to Mexico?

 

You’ve already done it once.

It was a disaster. Lots of breakdowns which screwed your trip.

 

You did it the following year with the same results.

 

In year three, you did it again?

You have nobody to blame except yourself. You’re poor choices were preventable. 

 

Even if you wanted to go to your crappy, metaphoric restaurant claim, you couldn’t get there in your notoriously unreliable vehicle. Everybody around you would suspect your sanity, by definition, at least. 

 

Injuries have ave been a trend here. JB’s job includes recognizing this and making changes. After 3 years of identical results, the kindest thing I could say here about JB is that he is insane. 

Or JB is a (stealthy) genius?  

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If you had a crappy, seriously unreliable car, known to breakdown on the road, would you hop in it to drive to Mexico?

 

You’ve already done it once.

It was a disaster. Lots of breakdowns which screwed your trip.

 

You did it the following year with the same results.

 

In year three, you did it again?

You have nobody to blame except yourself. You’re poor choices were preventable. 

 

Even if you wanted to go to your crappy, metaphoric restaurant claim, you couldn’t get there in your notoriously unreliable vehicle. Everybody around you would suspect your sanity, by definition, at least. 

 

Injuries have ave been a trend here. JB’s job includes recognizing this and making changes. After 3 years of identical results, the kindest thing I could say here about JB is that he is insane. 

Nope, your analogy is still mind numbingly wrong/simplified/ignorant. A hockey team is not a car or a restaurant. It's actually a laughingly idiotic premise that you think they're remotely comparable situations. It does explain a lot though.

[189lb enforcers?]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Admit 

 

A couple of them, sure. But injuries aren't exclusive to the 'SlimJim' era on this team. We've long been a team with a high'ish number of injuries (likely at least partially due to the extra travel based on our local). I'd also argue they're partially a symptom of a rebuilding team, not management or personnel. Rebuilding (AKA bad) team = spend more time in own end without puck = injuries. Then you get those injuries with no quality depth to replace them and...

you spend even more time in your own end without the puck and... rinse, repeat.

 

Besides what's he supposed to do? Strong arm those couple guys in to mutually terminating their guaranteed contracts? Trade them for peanuts to replace them with our lackluster depth thanks to previous management? This what's ACTUALLY meant by 'injuries are a part of the game'.  It's simple reality that a rebuilding team will not be able to withstand them as well. 

 

Never mind that a LARGE portion of our injuries have been fluke nonsense with pucks/stick coming up in to faces, bad timing on bench gates etc. Those things aren't management, trainer or player dependent.

 

 

I only wanted to make one point about how injuries were a plottable trend here, which is a manageable aspect, depending on which context we go in next.

 

I do not wish to get into it after that as it’s fairly obvious to conclude the several outcomes of each position.