(Rumour) Maple Leafs Have Interest In Erik Gudbranson

[guntrix]

4 hours ago, oldnews said:

You must be from the future.

 

Oh wait - let's see how "from the future" you actually are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm - top pairing in Vegas - a team that appears somewhat competitive.

 

 

Prophetic stuff.

 

You've been thoroughly punked by Sbisa, Dorsett, Granlund (and no doubt others - only searched Sbisa LOL and all that came up.  Oh yeah, Miller says "hi" as well lol).

 

So yeah, keep chirping Gudbranson, your fortune-telling record has been stellar.

 

Jim Benning 4 

Guntrix  0

 

That'd be a sweep.  Series over.

 

But you don't seem satisfied with all those losses - are itching for another.

My money is on this one going to 5-0.

See that's the problem right there. CDC is quick to come to conclusions when it flatters Jim but waits out when it doesn't.

 

Why didn't you mention Virtanen? Or the Forsling trade? Or the Eriksson contract? 

 

The Sbisa contract is already a win after 20 games? The Dorsett trade is a win after 20 odd games of playing far beyond his usual level?

 

I'd give you a pat on the back for such a well-researched post if it wasn't for its total partiality.

 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

Not only that - but 4-4.5-5 million is right in the line with what middle pairing D in this league are worth.

 

The Canucks have no $7/8 million #1.  They have Edler at $5, who, depending on their sustained competitiveness might be the principle asset they look to 'retool' if the team falls out of the race.  That is their most significant blueline cap hit.

The Canucks have an absolute steal in Tanev at 4.6 - one of the league's premier shutdown and puck possession defensemen -quietly elite in a number of aspects of his game.

The Canucks have no D that are pushing to take significant cap.

They have Del Zotto at 3 million, who also complements their top 4.

 

So Benning has positioned the blueline to be very healthy in terms of cap and flexibility.  Hutton another year and remains an RFA, Stecher and Pouliot poised for modest bridge contracts and will remain RFAs.    And imo, Juolevi, McEneny, Chatfield et al also pose realistic depth potential emerging in the next year or two. 

 

Benning has proven his critics wrong on the Dorsett, Sbisa, Sutter deals - heavily criticized by people with flaky hockey knowledge.

I trust he has a pretty solid concept of Gudbranson's value.

Maybe we need to just give critics of these moves a "Team Corsi" to watch.... oh wait, isn't that Arizona 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, guntrix said:

See that's the problem right there. CDC is quick to come to conclusions when it flatters Jim but waits out when it doesn't.

 

Why didn't you mention Virtanen? Or the Forsling trade? Or the Eriksson contract? 

 

The Sbisa contract is already a win after 20 games? The Dorsett trade is a win after 20 odd games of playing far beyond his usual level?

 

I'd give you a pat on the back for such a well-researched post if it wasn't for its total partiality.

 

Derp. 

The quick conclusions were yours - which were clearly ill-conceived and flushed out over time to be premature and misinformed.

Three years of Sbisa, three years of Dorset, two years of Sutter, two years of Miller, plenty of Granlund sample for you to chew on  - and you delude yourself that we're talking 20 games.

Meh,  Denial is probably your best coping mechanism here.

 

And ironically, you seek to pass judgement on Virtanen as you cite small samples.  He welcomes the challenge of sending you to 0-6.

 

 

[VIC_CITY]

6 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

Benning has proven his critics wrong on the Dorsett, Sbisa, Sutter deals - heavily criticized by people with flaky hockey knowledge.

I trust he has a pretty solid concept of Gudbranson's value.

I wouldn't necessarily say he proved anyone wrong. Dorsett's deal only looks good now because of the 20 games he just played. It was unheard of at the time for a player like him to get a 4 year deal. Especially at that salary. I have a hard time imagining another team beating that deal and there probably weren't many willing to match it. As for Sbisa, $3.6M was borderline shocking at the time. It doesn't look as bad now because of inflation and some progression in Sbisa's game but you don't hand out money based on perceived potential. At the time, Sbisa had done nothing to earn that contract. 

 

Sutter on the other hand was fine IMO. He definitely paid top dollar but Sutter was already producing and was bordering on becomming a #2 center. 

 

We'll see what JB ends up doing with Gudbranson. He traded for him so maybe he wants to keep him around. After Eriksson though, you have to think Benning is going to be a little more careful with how he spends Aquilini's money.

[guntrix]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Derp. 

The quick conclusions were yours - which were clearly ill-conceived and flushed out over time to be premature and misinformed.

Three years of Sbisa, three years of Dorset, two years of Sutter, two years of Miller, plenty of Granlund sample for you to chew on  - and you delude yourself that we're talking 20 games.

Meh,  Denial is probably your best coping mechanism here.

 

And ironically, you seek to pass judgement on Virtanen as you cite small samples.  He welcomes the challenge of sending you to 0-6.

 

 

I know Dorsett is admittedly a touchy subject but facts are facts. These 20 games he's played this year are by far the best he's played in his entire career. You're welcome to challenge that but I presume you won't.

 

Same goes for Sbisa and quite frankly, we've no idea if he'll keep it up. Signing him to that deal without knowing knowing that he'd eventually take on a top 4 role at Vegas is using hindsight and revisionism.

 

And yeah, I'm willing to keep taking the Ws on Virtanen. Next year will be the fifth one. 

 

Your knack for ignoring the entire narrative to pass on a point is admittedly impressive. If you had a more political edge to your writing, you could qualify for a spot on the Fox News team.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, guntrix said:

I know Dorsett is admittedly a touchy subject but facts are facts. These 20 games he's played this year are by far the best he's played in his entire career. You're welcome to challenge that but I presume you won't.

 

Same goes for Sbisa and quite frankly, we've no idea if he'll keep it up. Signing him to that deal without knowing knowing that he'd eventually take on a top 4 role at Vegas is using hindsight and revisionism.

 

And yeah, I'm willing to keep taking the Ws on Virtanen. Next year will be the fifth one. 

 

Your knack for ignoring the entire narrative to pass on a point is admittedly impressive. If you had a more political edge to your writing, you could qualify for a spot on the Fox News team.

Dorsett scored 25 points in his first year here Champ.  That production, combined with what he actually brings, made him worth his contract - reaffirmed his value relative to his contract, from day 1.  He didn't need to come and score 7 goals this year to qualify himself.  There's nothing new about Derek Dorsett's game.

What also not new - noobs that don't understand the value of players like Dorsett.  Not surprised that you're one of those that just awoke this season.  Took you three years to wake up.  Highlight reel fans tend to see a few goals and their perspective is radically swayed. 

 

"Revisionism" is your projection. 

Which would explain your difficulty with re-evaluating your prophecies / epic failures.

 

What Sbisa is now doing, and the fact he was selected, along with his 'horrible contract' lol, in the expansion draft simply corroborates from another professional franchise's perspective, what Benning already knew.  Tough pill for you folks who hard sold his ineptness to swallow.  Las Vegas - a pretty decent, competitive team, that had every 4th D in the league to choose from, selected Sbisa and made him not only a top 4 in that context/competition, but a top pairing guy.  The fact he has thoroughly punked you could not be any clearer x 2. 

 

And save the pathetic, ideological drivel for the political threads - assuming you like to waste your time in them (which would seem fitting).

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

I wouldn't necessarily say he proved anyone wrong. Dorsett's deal only looks good now because of the 20 games he just played. It was unheard of at the time for a player like him to get a 4 year deal. Especially at that salary. I have a hard time imagining another team beating that deal and there probably weren't many willing to match it. As for Sbisa, $3.6M was borderline shocking at the time. It doesn't look as bad now because of inflation and some progression in Sbisa's game but you don't hand out money based on perceived potential. At the time, Sbisa had done nothing to earn that contract. 

 

Sutter on the other hand was fine IMO. He definitely paid top dollar but Sutter was already producing and was bordering on becomming a #2 center. 

 

We'll see what JB ends up doing with Gudbranson. He traded for him so maybe he wants to keep him around. After Eriksson though, you have to think Benning is going to be a little more careful with how he spends Aquilini's money.

Nonsense.  Dorsett's past 20 games are simply a confirmation of what he's been doing here since day 1, and elsewhere beforehand, which is what made him an acquisition target in the first place.  In a Rags uniform in the playoffs just before acquired....  Analytics geeks would not have been able to gleen his value on spreadsheets, but it was most certainly not lost on a crafty old veteran like Benning.   Likewise with Sbisa, Sutter and Gudbranson - players that are not darlings of the analytics community, but whose actual values are certainly not perceived by corsi-gazing pretenders.  Sbisa was more than potential and he proved that rather rapidly and steadily to the point that he became precisely what Benning projected of him, and right on the timeline to boot.

Loui Eriksson is a 500+ pt NHLer - who has topped 60 points a handful of seasons, including the season before signing here.  People can goldfish and small sample Eriksson all they want, or peddle the myth that Dorset, Sbisa etc have only emerged in the past 20 games, but that is utter nonsense that comes from short term, reactionary perspectives.

[PhillipBlunt]

18 hours ago, guntrix said:

Tell me, how long did you wait for the opportunity to use that picture? 

It's a great picture and makes perfect sense. 

Quote

Someone help me out here and explain to him why draft hype and rumours aren't credible. I can't.

At least you admit that you lack the ability to define your statements. Your constant banally arrogant runarounds have lost their lustre. Now you just sound foolish. Do you honestly think someone is waiting in the wings for the opportunity to help you pull your head out of the cavernous hole it's planted in?

Quote

An Uno joke? Get it together Phillip.

Don't like Uno? Don't like Phil Hartman? You must not have a soul. 

Quote

So you apparently gave me the perfect opportunity to use stats yet you're the first one to complain when they're used for criticism. "Analyticzzz" amiright?

Nope. Not at all. But keep pissing into that wind. Analytics have a place in sports. Used as a tool they are useful. As gospel, they aren't.

Quote

Cherry pick: "To selectively choose the most beneficial items from what is available." You picked a one game sample to support your argument.

You aren't willingly this dense, are you?

 

If you don't think that Laviolette prepared his team for the Canucks differently than other teams, you truly are lost. Any coach worth their salt will always say that there are no easy games in this league, and knowing the team you're going up against is crucial in being prepared. 

 

Wake up. 

Quote

Can't make it any more simple than than Phillip, although I'm willing to use apples and oranges if you need me to.

Simplicity isn't the issue. The fact that your operating mostly on delusions is more the case. You could use half the fruit in a supermarket and you'd still sound ridiculous. 

Quote

Yet I pulled the nice guy card and didn't go all #analyticzzzz on you when you used them. The problem is that on CDC, stats are wrong when they don't flatter a player and they're gospel when they do. It's a double standard. 

Nice guy card. Is that something that you keep in your wallet? Again, analytics are u-s-e-f-u-l. In showing, suppression of shots, PDO. All useful tools, but nothing will ever supplant actual knowledge of the game, and unbiased viewing. 

 

Gudbranson's detractors always pull out the analytics when deriding his worth, and do so with vitriol. I mean, it usually comes across pretty impotently, but it's still fairly obvious that their is some strange fetish for criticizing the guy amongst that crowd.

 

Yes, he's not a perfect defender. He makes errors just like every player in the league does. His, however, are seemingly magnified by plenty of bloggers, some of who readily admit to not actually watching games. There are far too many variables that analytics don't account for, for it ever to be considered essential to the game.

 

Quote

Yikes. Quite a far cry from your original content Phillip. I'm out.

Can't handle change. Got scared off by neutral commentary. I understand. Maybe find a sweet gif to express your emotions through. 

[Gaudette Celly]

20 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Can't handle change. Got scared off by neutral commentary. I understand. Maybe find a sweet gif to express your emotions through. 

Moar Dorsett, moar Gudbranson, moar Virtanen... moar angst over anyone who plays a physical game which doesn't show on #muhcorsi.

 

[Noseforthenet]

7 hours ago, guntrix said:

See that's the problem right there. CDC is quick to come to conclusions when it flatters Jim but waits out when it doesn't.

 

Why didn't you mention Virtanen? Or the Forsling trade? Or the Eriksson contract? 

 

The Sbisa contract is already a win after 20 games? The Dorsett trade is a win after 20 odd games of playing far beyond his usual level?

 

I'd give you a pat on the back for such a well-researched post if it wasn't for its total partiality.

 

I think this guy signed in on all his accounts and minused you  

[Gaudette Celly]

7 hours ago, guntrix said:

See that's the problem right there. CDC is quick to come to conclusions when it flatters Jim but waits out when it doesn't.

 

Why didn't you mention Virtanen? Or the Forsling trade? Or the Eriksson contract? 

 

The Sbisa contract is already a win after 20 games? The Dorsett trade is a win after 20 odd games of playing far beyond his usual level?

 

I'd give you a pat on the back for such a well-researched post if it wasn't for its total partiality.

 

 

3 hours ago, guntrix said:

I know Dorsett is admittedly a touchy subject but facts are facts. These 20 games he's played this year are by far the best he's played in his entire career. You're welcome to challenge that but I presume you won't.

 

21 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who are you? Outside of trying to give guntrix a reacharound, what is your point here?

 

[PhillipBlunt]

18 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Moar Dorsett, moar Gudbranson, moar Virtanen... moar angst over anyone who plays a physical game which doesn't show on #muhcorsi.

 

I think I pissed myself a little when I saw this, Hutton. 

[PhillipBlunt]

6 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

 

 

 

 

I found this one of guntrix reading Canucks Army. 

 

He's gonna go to the mods about this, isn't he? &^@#.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Is this a crazy idea(see a lot of heated debate, but I've gone ostrich with this thread)?

 

Van: Gudbranson(we retain 1.2 mill, so their caps are equal) & a meh fwd prospect(like Megna, for ex)

 

TO: Polak & a D prospect(Valiev, Rosen, Neilsen..some LH-D to help Utica, lots of injuries),

2018 1st R pick

 

Could y'all imagine the beauty schadenfreude if TO crashed out? I'd like to play this season out, guaranteed at least 2 picks in the 1st R.

 

Polak would just be a #7 depth guy 'til yr-end. Basically no value.

Gud is tough, but seemingly often injured.

Maybe better to have a couple 4th line grinders play that role? The 'heavies' are disappearing to a degree, it seems anyhow.

 

I like Gud. Big tough, charismatic/well-spoken. Trouble is, seems to handle the puck like a live grenade. I think we could do better for a 4, 5 millish-range D.

[Gaudette Celly]

12 hours ago, oldnews said:

You've been thoroughly punked by Sbisa, Dorsett, Granlund (and no doubt others - only searched Sbisa LOL and all that came up.  Oh yeah, Miller says "hi" as well lol).

 

So yeah, keep chirping Gudbranson, your fortune-telling record has been stellar.

 

Jim Benning 4 

Guntrix  0

 

That'd be a sweep.  Series over.

 

But you don't seem satisfied with all those losses - are itching for another.

My money is on this one going to 5-0.

And ironically, you seek to pass judgement on Virtanen as you cite small samples.  He welcomes the challenge of sending you to 0-6.

 

[PhillipBlunt]

10 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

 

Thank you. 

[sampy]

22 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who are you? Outside of trying to give guntrix a reacharound, what is your point here? 

 

That's right on the money. He won't be resigning though. He's far too young to retire. He should re-sign. 

 

Gudbranson is a necessary player in the playoffs. The Canucks will be back in the mix far sooner than many expect, and will need warriors to fight the fight. 

 I’m sorry, I mistook you for another poster that was trolling me earlier. My bad.

 

Canucks are 2-ply soft, can’t get rid of all their meat and potatoes, it’ll hurt come playoff time. Hopefully he resigns for a reasonable amount.

[VIC_CITY]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

Nonsense.  Dorsett's past 20 games are simply a confirmation of what he's been doing here since day 1, and elsewhere beforehand, which is what made him an acquisition target in the first place.  In a Rags uniform in the playoffs just before acquired....  Analytics geeks would not have been able to gleen his value on spreadsheets, but it was most certainly not lost on a crafty old veteran like Benning.   Likewise with Sbisa, Sutter and Gudbranson - players that are not darlings of the analytics community, but whose actual values are certainly not perceived by corsi-gazing pretenders.  Sbisa was more than potential and he proved that rather rapidly and steadily to the point that he became precisely what Benning projected of him, and right on the timeline to boot.

Loui Eriksson is a 500+ pt NHLer - who has topped 60 points a handful of seasons, including the season before signing here.  People can goldfish and small sample Eriksson all they want, or peddle the myth that Dorset, Sbisa etc have only emerged in the past 20 games, but that is utter nonsense that comes from short term, reactionary perspectives.

Dorsett was coming off a good season, so his contract made a little more sense. But it was unheard of for a player like him to get a 4 year deal. Sbisa on the other hand was #5/6 defenseman at the time of his signing. Even today, with inflation, you still don't pay 3rd pairing defensemen that kind of money. Obviously Sbisa's game grew over time and he is now worth his contract but that's besides the point. At the time, it was a very questionable signing. He may have become the player that JB projected, but until he becomes that player, he shouldn't be paid that money. 

 

As far as Eriksson goes, you can't say anyone is goldfishing him. We're approaching the 1.5 year mark soon. He's playing good this year but he still isn't worth 6 x 6 and I'm pretty confident Benning would like that one back. 

 

 

[TheRocket18]

Dealing with Toronto for Guds will probably end up bad. Too much gm exp in Toronto .

[guntrix]

5 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

 

 

 

 

Re: the post you were responding to with this pic:

 

That statement is actually correct. But you weren't really here for hockey discussion were you, you never really are.

 

8 hours ago, oldnews said:

Dorsett scored 25 points in his first year here Champ.  That production, combined with what he actually brings, made him worth his contract - reaffirmed his value relative to his contract, from day 1. 

 

What Sbisa is now doing, and the fact he was selected, along with his 'horrible contract' lol, in the expansion draft simply corroborates from another professional franchise's perspective, what Benning already knew.  Tough pill for you folks who hard sold his ineptness to swallow.  Las Vegas - a pretty decent, competitive team, that had every 4th D in the league to choose from, selected Sbisa and made him not only a top 4 in that context/competition, but a top pairing guy.  The fact he has thoroughly punked you could not be any clearer x 2. 

Prior to the 25 points season, Dorsett was in and out of lineups and had a career-high of 20 points with the Jackets. There's not much precedent for a player like him getting 2.65 per for 4 years. 

 

And seriously? Sbisa was selected because it was basically between him, Miller, Gaunce and a bunch of lesser players. Are we seriously gonna act like McPhee chose him because his crystal ball told him Luca would all of a sudden re-vamp his play at 27? Since apparently trade rumours are fair game, wasn't it rumoured that Vegas were actively shopping Sbisa since day 1? The entire story - you're not telling it.

 

5 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I found this one of guntrix reading Canucks Army. 

 

He's gonna go to the mods about this, isn't he? &^@#.

Meet Phillip. 40 years old, too shy to ask for your manager, but uses an internet forum as an opportunity to vent some juvenile drama.