189lb enforcers? Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 3 hours ago, IBatch said: I want nothing to do with fixing the bed CHI made for themselves. They are a prime example of what happens to a star laden team in the cap era. Four guys eating up 30+ million is ridiculous, roughly 40% of your cap for four guys, two that are approaching or in their mid thirties, and the others in their mid to late prime...missing the playoffs is something they will have to get used to. Hahaha, sure, ok... I’m sure the owner and fans will understand... They’ve earned it. and let’s not forget these guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 16 hours ago, kenhodgejr said: Trade Tanev to Toronto for Timothy Liljegren Draft Bouchard or Dobson with our first Aim for Miller, Samuelsson, Alexyev or another good LD with our second pick. BPA with our third. Juolevi Liljegren Tyramkin Stetcher Miller Dobson Liljegren would be the add-on to their first in a trade for tanev. After the tire fire of this playoff season, TO better be willing to pay to upgrade their defense........not on scoring from D, but from the prevention of it. They need a Tanev desperately, maybe even two of him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, kloubek said: Completely disagree. The Sedins alone were both -22. If they played even, that's 22 goals against right there. Then there is our "#1" goalie who's save % was ..912, which is about .01 off the AVERAGE of #1 goalies, and that's about 18 goals there not even counting our even more crappy backup. That's already 40 goals against that we can lose with those two elements changed. That already puts us at about #5 or #6 best in the league in goals against. Then factor Tanev being healthy the whole season (if that's possible) and we actually be doing very well indeed... likely near the best in the league. So basically, if we got two players who were even in +/-, and an average goalie along with a healthy Tanev, the scenario changes pretty quickly. So then you might say, "most of our players were minuses". That would be true, but then, it would still remain true that some were not, and that missing Tanev hurt us a ton, and that our goalie was not good enough. You can call a spade a spade all you want, but basing your opinion on facts instead of scratch-the-surface emotion would serve you well. and your argument is based on plus/minus stats? get real that's a pretty puffy pillowy soft sort of response i won't respond further if that is all you have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, stawns said: Liljegren would be the add-on to their first in a trade for tanev. After the tire fire of this playoff season, TO better be willing to pay to upgrade their defense........not on scoring from D, but from the prevention of it. They need a Tanev desperately, maybe even two of him! Which team would be able to take down the Bruins? They are unbeatable right now. The Kings also swept teams on their way to that first cup. Nobody called their opposition a ‘tire fire’, nor should the Leafs be right now, especially if trying to lay it on the D. The lengths this forum goes to put down the Leafs is Ph D thesis-caliber. Tanev is worth a 1st and Liljegren? Maybe 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, coastal.view said: and your argument is based on plus/minus stats? get real that's a pretty puffy pillowy soft sort of response i won't respond further if that is all you have +/- stats, goaltending stats, and of course the obvious fact that one of the best shutdown defenders in the league was off the ice for half the season. So you discount all these, and feel that your opinion backed by zero facts is more valid. Yeah, that's ok... no need to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, kloubek said: +/- stats, goaltending stats, and of course the obvious fact that one of the best shutdown defenders in the league was off the ice for half the season. So you discount all these, and feel that your opinion backed by zero facts is more valid. Yeah, that's ok... no need to respond. look at our defensive record the past 3 seasons this accounts for all the stats you offer up we were bad.. very bad.. bottom of the league bad .. consistently bad.. awful yet you somehow think this very bad grouping can be 12th overall in the league good? their performance screams the need for high level changes anything short of that will see a repeat of a very bad defensive team but you think not ok then enjoy your stats .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, coastal.view said: but you think not ok then enjoy your stats .. Well... yeah... I think not, based on facts and numbers. You think not, based on your gut feeling. It's kinda like atheists battling religious people... they can talk about facts, scientifically proven carbon dating and everything else, but at the end of the day the religious folk just blubber away that they are right regardless. Yeah, we probably won't be that much better next season because we may be playing a lot of young guys, Tanev will probably get injured again and we will have the same goalies. Oh... and for the record, yeah we've been a crappy (rebuilding) team lately. That's not exactly news, and you aren't really providing any revelations here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 38 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Hahaha, sure, ok... I’m sure the owner and fans will understand... They’ve earned it. and let’s not forget these guys... Yeah maybe...but fans are a fickle bunch 198lbs... They may think they earned it, but if this not being in the playoffs happens for a few years, you'll see fans starting to desert the team... Always happens. Fans have short memories... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, kloubek said: Well... yeah... I think not, based on facts and numbers. You think not, based on your gut feeling. It's kinda like atheists battling religious people... they can talk about facts, scientifically proven carbon dating and everything else, but at the end of the day the religious folk just blubber away that they are right regardless. Yeah, we probably won't be that much better next season because we may be playing a lot of young guys, Tanev will probably get injured again and we will have the same goalies. Oh... and for the record, yeah we've been a crappy (rebuilding) team lately. That's not exactly news, and you aren't really providing any revelations here. um you deny that the canucks d has been as bad as it has been ? stare reality in the face this is not at all like you are mr scientist and i'm mr wacko religious spewer your scientific methods and views clash with clear reality - the canucks d as presently constructed is bad.. and has clearly demonstrated (proven) they are bad nice try though at least you see that the d will again be bad so i'm now no longer sure what it is you are saying seems like a waste of a lot of words edit: if we swapped up d groupings with nashville the canucks would be a playoff team that is all you need to know about how bad our d core is if anyone is religious in their denial of this fact it is you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Rush17 said: . Agree with a lot of what u say. What about Rasmus Dahlin who is a lefty who prefers the right. Would u be open to an exception to the rule of he's an all star caliber D? I prefer lefty righty combos myself but for Dahlin do you keep him where he is comfortable or do you try to switch him fully to left. I am guessing he played left at some point. A lot of his plays are from being a left shot player on the right side. Do we Rob him of what makes him so great if that is a factor? Im not saying it is. But would you? I'd love to see Dahlin - Carlson. Followed by Edler - Gudbranson, and Juolevi - Stecher. With all that said above. I would prefer Dahlin on the left but what about you? Well, Rasmus is first and foremost an offensive D. At the point you get to shoot from the middle, not the outside with a more direct route to the net. Its a big advantage at the offensive end. Swooping into the offensive zone on end to end rushes from the off wing as well. It works for Jake, it was famous for Messier as forwards. It also applies to a puck rushing D barreling in. But more directly to your question from a defensive side. I also had a related post, 3 or 4 weeks back in the draft thread that outlines why D is harder to play in the NHL. You might have 4/10ths of a second to win a puck race & make a play, versus say 7/10ths? With a bigger, faster, harder hitting forward cruising in to punish & put pressure on you. In a draft context, selecting at the top of the draft, you have to get not just to the good hockey player, but the elite athlete. The guy who has all world explosive agility, speed. And skill, the ability to get to pucks, power quickly in different directions while deftly commanding the puck. In short, Dahlin is that guy. Rules of having to make decisions under pressure, back hand, fore hand, be damned. He's so quick, skilled, explosive he already has the puck & is gone! The reason you want to put D on their strong side applies to the average and everyday defender. Where they can get to pucks & have easier to execute options to relieve pressure. Such speed and agility, BTW, is why you are seeing the birth / rebirth of smaller quicker defenders. A bigger slower guy tracks down a puck? But a forward is already on him. So rather than make a rushed poor percentage play against his field of vision, a Jason Garrison would corral the puck. Try and use his body to shield it. Slow the play down and use his size, skills in tight to win a puck battle to ultimately get it out. Jared Spurgeon flies in, leaves with the puck on his stick. Cuts up ice & his team is playing offence. Instead of your team zoning up to retrieve the puck if Jason wins that battle? Or defend if he does not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, coastal.view said: seems like a waste of a lot of words You got that right. Debates only work if facts are exchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Better goalies, who don't let in softies every game, will greatly improve our defense. Look at how much improved our defense was during the final 10 games when Markstrom didn't let in any softies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Hahaha, sure, ok... I’m sure the owner and fans will understand... They’ve earned it. and let’s not forget these guys... Those other guys signed Crosby and Malkin to similar cap hits at the time as Toews and Kane....but now are able to sign a good complimentary piece with the cap going up. I suppose the same might happen for CHI, Bowman must be getting tired trying to do the cap dance with Byfuglien, Panarin, Saad, Saad 2.0 etc.etc. Of course they can always watch tape of the glory days, or the PENs go for three in a row....or maybe dare I say 4 next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Alflives said: Better goalies, who don't let in softies every game, will greatly improve our defense. Look at how much improved our defense was during the final 10 games when Markstrom didn't let in any softies! I agree Markstrom played better down the stretch of the last 10 games. Lots of goalies let a soft one in. Luongo let one in almost every game but our D is just plain awful. There's no getting around it. We need a complete re tool of the back end and it has to start soon or we will not have any D to go with this current group. Draft this year and add a couple if you can through trades but the time to do it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said: I agree Markstrom played better down the stretch of the last 10 games. Lots of goalies let a soft one in. Luongo let one in almost every game but our D is just plain awful. There's no getting around it. We need a complete re tool of the back end and it has to start soon or we will not have any D to go with this current group. Draft this year and add a couple if you can through trades but the time to do it is now. Top goalies, actually just good goalies, don’t let in soft goals on such a frequent basis as our guys did this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 hours ago, IBatch said: Those other guys signed Crosby and Malkin to similar cap hits at the time as Toews and Kane....but now are able to sign a good complimentary piece with the cap going up. I suppose the same might happen for CHI, Bowman must be getting tired trying to do the cap dance with Byfuglien, Panarin, Saad, Saad 2.0 etc.etc. Of course they can always watch tape of the glory days, or the PENs go for three in a row....or maybe dare I say 4 next year? I am a massive Crosby fan. I hope others appreciate his game while they can too. Toews, same. Guys like that are the epitome of the perfect hockey player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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