Benning's Window of Opportunity

[stawns]

2 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I mean more in a longterm view. Edler is definitely still our best D, but is he going to be here throughout the entirety of the young players prime? Tanev and Myers are fine players, how long will Tanev be here? Myers will know will be here for 5 years, is he a driver or a compliementary player, and how long till he drops off a bit?

 

I'm just coming from the long term standpoint with that. You have Quinn Hughes you can count on, Juolevi you hope, in my opinion he's a top 4 but maybe more of a complimentary guy in a general sense. 

 

I'm just thinking if we could add one more young defenseman, closer to the Hughes level than say the Woo/Brisebois level, I think that would really be a huge boost to our cup contending chances. They are hard to add through trade, but its possible. Or else alot of good D like that have been taken in the middle of the 1st round, or just the 1st round in general if you hit.

 

 

I have Hughes as that, saying we need to add another guy. OJ I don't think you can depend on anymore unfortunately. I still think he can be a good top 4, perhaps more of a complimentary type player than someone that drives a line/in-part drives a team.

Why wouldn't you be able to count on oj working out as much as Hughes?  Sounds like he'll have no residual injury issue and he was scoring just under a point a game in the AHL as a rookie, after an outstanding season in Liiga.  He's proven a lot more than Hughes has.

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I mean more in a longterm view. Edler is definitely still our best D, but is he going to be here throughout the entirety of the young players prime? Tanev and Myers are fine players, how long will Tanev be here? Myers will know will be here for 5 years, is he a driver or a compliementary player, and how long till he drops off a bit?

 

I'm just coming from the long term standpoint with that. You have Quinn Hughes you can count on, Juolevi you hope, in my opinion he's a top 4 but maybe more of a complimentary guy in a general sense. 

 

I'm just thinking if we could add one more young defenseman, closer to the Hughes level than say the Woo/Brisebois level, I think that would really be a huge boost to our cup contending chances. They are hard to add through trade, but its possible. Or else alot of good D like that have been taken in the middle of the 1st round, or just the 1st round in general if you hit.

 

 

I have Hughes as that, saying we need to add another guy. OJ I don't think you can depend on anymore unfortunately. I still think he can be a good top 4, perhaps more of a complimentary type player than someone that drives a line/in-part drives a team.

I think you might be more then pleasantly surprised with Myers, as in he could surpass Edler the moment he steps on the ice, we don’t see much of him and Edler and has been our top minute muncher and overall defenseman by default.   I liked Burke’s comments, underused and more then capable of stepping up when Trouba and Byfuglien were injured, and seems fine with taking on a much bigger role here in Vancouver.     The guy has untapped potential and the best point shot on our team, add 20 PP points to his totals and more minutes it’s possible he can score 50 points.   He sees  so little PP time in WNP he’s scored 4 of his goals and only 18 of 74 career goals on the PP, Edler has almost half of his on the PP by comparison and way way way more PP time all on the first unit.

 

Myers career shooting percentage is basically 50% better then Edlers too.  If he had the PP time (where shooting percentage goes up) it would be even better. 

 

Personally it’s hard for me to see Edler keeping his top spot for long, it won’t take long for Hughes to take over his PP spot, and run with Myers as the triggerman.    Last year, like his last contract year, he had a career year (but still couldn’t manage 60 games), and after being a minus magnet for several years managed first first plus season (3) since 14-15, the year before he was a league worse -39 though.  Have people forgotten how bad was already?  Years of 50-60 games and -20’s?

 

Myers on the other hand playing against lesser folks, had been a plus 40 since going to WNP and some of that time early on was injury riddled but still managed a plus 9-11 in 11 games and 24 games  etc.    So hard to say exactly how thing would be for Edler had the roles reversed, but it definitely seems Myers is more then capable of moving up he depth chart, and Edlers seasons of mid 22 ish points would be closer to 15 with no PP time.

 

Both guys are better suited second pairing players, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Myers has a career year next year or the one after that (which means 50+ points, hardly anyone gets 30 5 x 5 unless your EK or Burns and Myers almost managed it two years in a row) and Edler ends up on the second pairing at some point too, and definitely on the second PP unit soon into the upcoming season. 

 

Posted yesterday that in two years when we have a cap crunch and have to re-sign two L side guys I don’t see us re-upping Edler, see us going with OJ if he can play even a 3rd pairing role and re-upping Benn.   Edler will likely retire at that point unless he’s willing to take a huge discount to stay on one year contracts, best case for him.   So no he won’t be around for much of prime time with our next core.  

 

[Timråfan]

I think we start right now. Based on what other fans think of Meyer, Ferland and Miller. If they are as good as many say we're in the window... If not, we have to wait for Podz, Tryamkin, Juolevi, Höglander.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Timråfan

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

Why wouldn't you be able to count on oj working out as much as Hughes?  Sounds like he'll have no residual injury issue and he was scoring just under a point a game in the AHL as a rookie, after an outstanding season in Liiga.  He's proven a lot more than Hughes has.

Not really.  Draft plus one OJ didn’t do much more then he did his draft year, heck Bouchard paced him in London.  Where as Hughes went back to the NCAA and was the leagues second best defenseman after Makar, playing against  young adults instead of kids.  Most good draft prospects that go back the CHL kill it the year after they get drafted.  OJ defintely did NOT do this.  He went to Europe the year after that.  

 

Then Hughes made the show his first draft year and played five games and didn’t look at all out of place, and scored 3 points in five games.  Something OJ hasn’t managed yet and he’s a few years older.   When Hughes is 21 he will have a couple NHL seasons under his belt and likely will be our best L side player, I bet he takes Edlers first unit PP over this season (predictable, doesn’t score many goals on it anyways etc) for a couple reasons:  it will be like having and extra forward,  it’s a new look and our PP wasn’t good last year, and Myers has a way better point shot then Edler.  

 

OJ will start in the AHL and get his chance when Edler goes down.   How well he does will determine a lot going forward, hopefully he can keep a spot but don’t see it happening full-time for two more years.  Benn is a 4-5 guy and doubt he will beat him out.  In fact see us re-upping him and not re-signing Edler IF OJ can make it.   Long term ideally OJ will be Edlers replacement...

 

As far as his AHL play went he was given every opportunity on the PP and his ice time and he was pretty solid.  He did have bad games too.  Hes A cerebral guy with a great toolbox, pretty sure he will make the team eventually,  but so far at least Hughes is on a different level.

[stawns]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not really.  Draft plus one OJ didn’t do much more then he did his draft year, heck Bouchard paced him in London.  Where as Hughes went back to the NCAA and was the leagues second best defenseman after Makar, playing against  young adults instead of kids.  Most good draft prospects that go back the CHL kill it the year after they get drafted.  OJ defintely did NOT do this.  He went to Europe the year after that.  

 

Then Hughes made the show his first draft year and played five games and didn’t look at all out of place, and scored 3 points in five games.  Something OJ hasn’t managed yet and he’s a few years older.   When Hughes is 21 he will have a couple NHL seasons under his belt and likely will be our best L side player, I bet he takes Edlers first unit PP over this season (predictable, doesn’t score many goals on it anyways etc) for a couple reasons:  it will be like having and extra forward,  it’s a new look and our PP wasn’t good last year, and Myers has a way better point shot then Edler.  

 

OJ will start in the AHL and get his chance when Edler goes down.   How well he does will determine a lot going forward, hopefully he can keep a spot but don’t see it happening full-time for two more years.  Benn is a 4-5 guy and doubt he will beat him out.  In fact see us re-upping him and not re-signing Edler IF OJ can make it.   Long term ideally OJ will be Edlers replacement...

 

As far as his AHL play went he was given every opportunity on the PP and his ice time and he was pretty solid.  He did have bad games too.  Hes A cerebral guy with a great toolbox, pretty sure he will make the team eventually,  but so far at least Hughes is on a different level.

Actually, with a deeply depleted Knights lineup, completely devoid of big name help, OJ managed to keep his points per game pretty even to his draft year.  That, alone, was a significant accomplishment.  

 

Scoring at an almost ppg in his AHL rookie year on a team that had some serious scoring deficiencies isn't something to just shrug off.  Would Hughes have been able to do better with that lack of offensive support?

 

I like QH, don't get me wrong, but he negotiated his way into the lineup, he didn't have to earn it like OJ has to.  The fact is, OJ has performed like a top draft pick at every level and there's no reason to think he's not going to be as effective as Hughes.

[IBatch]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

Actually, with a deeply depleted Knights lineup, completely devoid of big name help, OJ managed to keep his points per game pretty even to his draft year.  That, alone, was a significant accomplishment.  

 

Scoring at an almost ppg in his AHL rookie year on a team that had some serious scoring deficiencies isn't something to just shrug off.  Would Hughes have been able to do better with that lack of offensive support?

 

I like QH, don't get me wrong, but he negotiated his way into the lineup, he didn't have to earn it like OJ has to.  The fact is, OJ has performed like a top draft pick at every level and there's no reason to think he's not going to be as effective as Hughes.

It’s possible, the only point was Hughes has and is playing at a much higher level then OJ did draft plus one.  Yes I’ve heard the story about London, he did have Bouchard as his partner which helped...

 

I watched OJ play last year, he was hit and miss, some games were good other games not as much (he was benched one game after letting a guy get by him and not taking the body on a easy play, went for the puck and missed and it ended up in his net, GWG in a tight game).   Brisebois was better all around the games I watched...he was given every opportunity though.   I’m not so sure he’s ready, but I’m sure he will get his chance as soon as a guy goes down.

 

 One goal and 13 points in 18 games is .72 PPG...wouldn’t call that close to PPG but still a very good start...that said Boucher  was over a PPG and McEwen also played well, both fringe guys for us.   And it’s a limited sample size...he was -12 which would prorate very unfavourably in a full season, neither would less then two shots per game despite first line PP time, but I think that he was adapting still.  Personally Benning knows best, and he’s essentially filled the L side for two years, and plans to ease him back into it,  back to Utica and use him as an injury call-up.   Sure he might trade Benn to make room if he earns the spot in a year or so which would be awesome. 

 

Meanwhile some CDCers are pencilling in Hughes for 35-60 points ... a tad hopeful no doubt, but you never really know.   OJs injuries are more worrisome to me then anything, I do think he will make the NHL eventually, and has the toolbox to be a Vlasic type as his ceiling, which would be incredible for us, it would  definitely put him up there with Hughe’s ceiling too as both Rovers and two-way defensive defenseman have huge value in today’s game.  At least for now anyways, one is in the lineup draft plus two, and some games draft plus one, the other has fifty games played the last two years combined draft plus four.

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It’s possible, the only point was Hughes has and is playing at a much higher level then OJ did draft plus one.  Yes I’ve heard the story about London, he did have Bouchard as his partner which helped...

 

I watched OJ play last year, he was hit and miss, some games were good other games not as much (he was benched one game after letting a guy get by him and not taking the body on a easy play, went for the puck and missed and it ended up in his net, GWG in a tight game).   Brisebois was better all around the games I watched...he was given every opportunity though.   I’m not so sure he’s ready, but I’m sure he will get his chance as soon as a guy goes down.

 

 One goal and 13 points in 18 games is .72 PPG...wouldn’t call that close to PPG but still a very good start...that said Boucher  was over a PPG and McEwen also played well, both fringe guys for us.   And it’s a limited sample size...he was -12 which would prorate very unfavourably in a full season, neither would less then two shots per game despite first line PP time, but I think that he was adapting still.  Personally Benning knows best, and he’s essentially filled the L side for two years, and plans to ease him back into it,  back to Utica and use him as an injury call-up.   Sure he might trade Benn to make room if he earns the spot in a year or so which would be awesome. 

 

Meanwhile some CDCers are pencilling in Hughes for 35-60 points ... a tad hopeful no doubt, but you never really know.   OJs injuries are more worrisome to me then anything, I do think he will make the NHL eventually, and has the toolbox to be a Vlasic type as his ceiling, which would be incredible for us, it would  definitely put him up there with Hughe’s ceiling too as both Rovers and two-way defensive defenseman have huge value in today’s game.  At least for now anyways, one is in the lineup draft plus two, and some games draft plus one, the other has fifty games played the last two years combined draft plus four.

My point was Hughes was in Van because he negotiated it in his contract, as do all NCAA players coming into Van, it doesn't have anything to do with earning the shot, exactly the opposite.

 

 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

My point was Hughes was in Van because he negotiated it in his contract, as do all NCAA players coming into Van, it doesn't have anything to do with earning the shot, exactly the opposite.

 

 

You honestly think he hasn’t earned a spot?  Or Boeser for that matter (experts felt he could have started a year earlier but Benning kept him down an extra year)?   He played well, five pro games with Schenn as his partner, earning his spot like everyone else, would have played more but thankfully he didn’t so we don’t have to protect him in the ED.  

 

This really wasn’t what we were discussing but it is interesting....is that why AG got a try out too (winning the Hobey Baker and showing he could be an AHL star had more to do with that) ?   My understanding is GMs treat their star prospects differently, as in letting them burn a year off their contracts when they can but not always. 

 

Bennings been heavily criticized for picking OJ over MT, but didn’t rush him and for good reason, because he wasn’t ready, wouldn’t matter if he was from the NCAA or not.   Personally I think the WJs skyrocketed his stock, without that performance or playing that tournament at all I’m not sure he’d have gone in the first round, at the start of the year he wasn’t in anyones radar for a top ten pick thats for sure.  Which goes back to the original discussion, one player is starting his NHL career as a 19 year old, the other can drink legally in any state now and is back training after a season ending injury.   At this point anyways it seems that Hughes is the better player and has more  upside ... doesn’t mean we should sleep on OJ, we all want him to excel,  but we won’t really know for sure for a few years ... like by the time Hughes is OJs current age. 

[aGENT]

44 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It’s possible, the only point was Hughes has and is playing at a much higher level then OJ did draft plus one.  Yes I’ve heard the story about London, he did have Bouchard as his partner which helped...

 

I watched OJ play last year, he was hit and miss, some games were good other games not as much (he was benched one game after letting a guy get by him and not taking the body on a easy play, went for the puck and missed and it ended up in his net, GWG in a tight game).   Brisebois was better all around the games I watched...he was given every opportunity though.   I’m not so sure he’s ready, but I’m sure he will get his chance as soon as a guy goes down.

 

 One goal and 13 points in 18 games is .72 PPG...wouldn’t call that close to PPG but still a very good start...that said Boucher  was over a PPG and McEwen also played well, both fringe guys for us.   And it’s a limited sample size...he was -12 which would prorate very unfavourably in a full season, neither would less then two shots per game despite first line PP time, but I think that he was adapting still.  Personally Benning knows best, and he’s essentially filled the L side for two years, and plans to ease him back into it,  back to Utica and use him as an injury call-up.   Sure he might trade Benn to make room if he earns the spot in a year or so which would be awesome. 

 

Meanwhile some CDCers are pencilling in Hughes for 35-60 points ... a tad hopeful no doubt, but you never really know.   OJs injuries are more worrisome to me then anything, I do think he will make the NHL eventually, and has the toolbox to be a Vlasic type as his ceiling, which would be incredible for us, it would  definitely put him up there with Hughe’s ceiling too as both Rovers and two-way defensive defenseman have huge value in today’s game.  At least for now anyways, one is in the lineup draft plus two, and some games draft plus one, the other has fifty games played the last two years combined draft plus four.

He was also responsible for babysitting Bouchard that year (he's not noted for his defense). And yet even in that role, with a depleted lineup, managed to roughly match his point totals.

 

I think his knee injury was limiting his ability to pivot/turn last year. Hence the issues with 'guys getting by him' (and likely some of that -12).

 

Boucher and MacEwan are forwards (and Boucher a comparitive 'vet').... Why are we comparing their point totals...? But by all means, yes Juolevi was still adapting to that level.

 

Juolevi's likely never as sound defensively as Vlasic but he will endlessly push the puck forward with solid skating and passing that are fueled by a solid head for the game/ability to see the ice. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by aGENT

[Smashian Kassian]

12 hours ago, stawns said:

Why wouldn't you be able to count on oj working out as much as Hughes?  Sounds like he'll have no residual injury issue and he was scoring just under a point a game in the AHL as a rookie, after an outstanding season in Liiga.  He's proven a lot more than Hughes has.

Quinn Hughes has already shown he can contribute in the NHL, OJ hasnt even played so Id say Q has proved more.

 

Im a Juolevi supporter, but he was never as good a prospect as Hughes in the first place, before the injuries. I dont know why you'd be expecting him to be of the same level.

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Smashian Kassian

[IBatch]

20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

He was also responsible for babysitting Bouchard that year (he's not noted for his defense). And yet even in that role, with a depleted lineup, managed to roughly match his point totals.

 

I think his knee injury was limiting his ability to pivot/turn last year. Hence the issues with 'guys getting by him' (and likely some of that -12).

 

Boucher and MacEwan are forwards (and Boucher a comparitive 'vet').... Why are we comparing their point totals...? But by all means, yes Juolevi was still adapting to that level.

 

Juolevi's likely never as sound defensively as Vlasic but he will endlessly push the puck forward with solid skating and passing that are fueled by a solid head for the game/ability to see the ice. 

Go back and re-read the posts I was replying to, of course I know those guys are forwards, they are examples of what a PPG or close to a PPG AHLers are, OJ was not producing like that, although as I mentioned did well.  I follow the OHL and Utica,  I’m sorry to say OJ is not at the same level, and never has been at the same level as Hughes which is the topic being discussed.  

 

How many live games has anyone on this site watched?  He only played 18 after all, of those how many has anyone seen?  Stats are stats.   Benning knows what’s going on and set up his L side contracts to pace when he feels OJ will become a regular.  Two years from now.   Meanwhile Hughes will have two seasons under his belt before he’s the same age as OJ is now.  To say he hasn’t made the lineup because he’s not a NCAA player is kind of strange to say the least (replying to dialogue of the discussion) or that Hughes hasn’t earned a spot where as OJ is earning it.  (Edit: hes developing, once he gets to a certain point he will have earned it, just like Hughes already has)

 

Benning would have played Hughes right off the hop if he didn’t decide to go back last year, that’s how high he is on him.   The Bouchard comment is incorrect.  Who helped how is more like it, he’s two years younger, just breaking in and paced him.  A year later WITHOUT OJ, OHL defenseman of the year, draft plus one even better and again OHL defenseman of the year, absolute domination of his peer group which is what you’d expect of a high draft pick staying in the CHL draft plus one...and he went five picks later.  Very different performances, I’d trade OJ for Bouchard in a heart beat, saying he’s bad defensively is naive given his age, he’s one of EDMs only bright lights and probably will end up a high scoring D if the McDavid/Drasaitl show stays long enough.  It’s a very real possibility Bouchard will be a regular before OJ too.

 

Heck THN has him as the 13th best prospect in the world right now, the third best D behind Makar and Hughes...OJ still makes the list but was never higher then 23, each year is slipping and now is 66, right around where AG was last year.

Edited July 18, 2019 by IBatch

[alt kilgore]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not really.  Draft plus one OJ didn’t do much more then he did his draft year, heck Bouchard paced him in London.  Where as Hughes went back to the NCAA and was the leagues second best defenseman after Makar, playing against  young adults instead of kids.  Most good draft prospects that go back the CHL kill it the year after they get drafted.  OJ defintely did NOT do this.  He went to Europe the year after that.  

 

Then Hughes made the show his first draft year and played five games and didn’t look at all out of place, and scored 3 points in five games.  Something OJ hasn’t managed yet and he’s a few years older.   When Hughes is 21 he will have a couple NHL seasons under his belt and likely will be our best L side player, I bet he takes Edlers first unit PP over this season (predictable, doesn’t score many goals on it anyways etc) for a couple reasons:  it will be like having and extra forward,  it’s a new look and our PP wasn’t good last year, and Myers has a way better point shot then Edler.  

 

OJ will start in the AHL and get his chance when Edler goes down.   How well he does will determine a lot going forward, hopefully he can keep a spot but don’t see it happening full-time for two more years.  Benn is a 4-5 guy and doubt he will beat him out.  In fact see us re-upping him and not re-signing Edler IF OJ can make it.   Long term ideally OJ will be Edlers replacement...

 

As far as his AHL play went he was given every opportunity on the PP and his ice time and he was pretty solid.  He did have bad games too.  Hes A cerebral guy with a great toolbox, pretty sure he will make the team eventually,  but so far at least Hughes is on a different level.

 

Sorry, not really responding to the post, although I do generally agree.  This line just popped out.  lol.   Funny now how we just assume Edler will never play a full season. Its just a matter of how long it will be before his first injury happens. We just re-signed him as the highest paid defenseman on the team, and is also assumed to be in our top pair. But everyone just assumes, and accepts, he'll be a part time player. To the point we also think it won't be long into the season for OJ to get his start. Something whack about that.

[Smashian Kassian]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

I think you might be more then pleasantly surprised with Myers, as in he could surpass Edler the moment he steps on the ice, we don’t see much of him and Edler and has been our top minute muncher and overall defenseman by default.   I liked Burke’s comments, underused and more then capable of stepping up when Trouba and Byfuglien were injured, and seems fine with taking on a much bigger role here in Vancouver.     The guy has untapped potential and the best point shot on our team, add 20 PP points to his totals and more minutes it’s possible he can score 50 points.   He sees  so little PP time in WNP he’s scored 4 of his goals and only 18 of 74 career goals on the PP, Edler has almost half of his on the PP by comparison and way way way more PP time all on the first unit.

 

Myers career shooting percentage is basically 50% better then Edlers too.  If he had the PP time (where shooting percentage goes up) it would be even better. 

 

Personally it’s hard for me to see Edler keeping his top spot for long, it won’t take long for Hughes to take over his PP spot, and run with Myers as the triggerman.    Last year, like his last contract year, he had a career year (but still couldn’t manage 60 games), and after being a minus magnet for several years managed first first plus season (3) since 14-15, the year before he was a league worse -39 though.  Have people forgotten how bad was already?  Years of 50-60 games and -20’s?

 

Myers on the other hand playing against lesser folks, had been a plus 40 since going to WNP and some of that time early on was injury riddled but still managed a plus 9-11 in 11 games and 24 games  etc.    So hard to say exactly how thing would be for Edler had the roles reversed, but it definitely seems Myers is more then capable of moving up he depth chart, and Edlers seasons of mid 22 ish points would be closer to 15 with no PP time.

 

Both guys are better suited second pairing players, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Myers has a career year next year or the one after that (which means 50+ points, hardly anyone gets 30 5 x 5 unless your EK or Burns and Myers almost managed it two years in a row) and Edler ends up on the second pairing at some point too, and definitely on the second PP unit soon into the upcoming season. 

 

Posted yesterday that in two years when we have a cap crunch and have to re-sign two L side guys I don’t see us re-upping Edler, see us going with OJ if he can play even a 3rd pairing role and re-upping Benn.   Edler will likely retire at that point unless he’s willing to take a huge discount to stay on one year contracts, best case for him.   So no he won’t be around for much of prime time with our next core.  

 

 

I hope your right on Myers. I didnt watch him enough in Winnipeg to know if he's gunna be able to be our best D, but im expecting he'll be a solid 2nd pair player & obviously bring above average offense, including helping the PP. Add his big shot & offensive ability (aswell as hughes) will be huge for a defense thats been a black hole offensively for years now. 

 

No doubt Myers & Hughes will take PP time & Ozone starts from Edler. But as far as being a matchup D & playing against top players, I still think Edler will be our top D in that regard. 

 

I cant see Hughes taking that from Edler, Id be willing to bet Edler will still play more minutes than Hughes @ ES for sure, and then also considering PK, likely more time overall.

[dpn1]

I think QH is the better player but you maybe selling OJ short.  I think he will be ready at the end of next this coming season or the next.  I don't think it will take 2 more years for him to be ready.

[IBatch]

Just now, kilgore said:

 

Sorry, not really responding to the post, although I do generally agree.  This line just popped out.  lol.   Funny now how we just assume Edler will never play a full season. Its just a matter of how long it will be before his first injury happens. We just re-signed him as the highest paid defenseman on the team, and is also assumed to be in our top pair. But everyone just assumes, and accepts, he'll be a part time player. To the point we also think it won't be long into the season for OJ to get his start. Something whack about that.

Yep but it is what it is.  He’s very solid when he plays, especially last year (ahem contract year) but I’m pretty sure he will play like he did next year too.  One of his injuries was a fluke unfortunately otherwise he’d have played closer to 70 games...his five year average is in the fifties...pro-rate that to GP and he’s making some big dough.  Bennings planned for it, Poo is out Hughes is in, huge upgrade, Benn is too over Hutton, an advanced star darling.   My hope is OJ comes in and doesn’t look out of place, and can play with the big boys it’s an upgrade on the AHL which really was giving him some problems although he was adjusting.  He need more AHL time anyways so this works to our and his advantage.   The thing I like about him is he’s so far being able to make each step and figure things out.  This will help him, heck who knows it could be Benn or Hughes too.  Just hope it’s not right away as he needs some time to get back into the swing of things.  

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Go back and re-read the posts I was replying to, of course I know those guys are forwards, they are examples of what a PPG or close to a PPG AHLers are, OJ was not producing like that, although as I mentioned did well.  I follow the OHL and Utica,  I’m sorry to say OJ is not at the same level, and never has been at the same level as Hughes which is the topic being discussed.  

 

How many live games has anyone on this site watched?  He only played 18 after all, of those how many has anyone seen?  Stats are stats.   Benning knows what’s going on and set up his L side contracts to pace when he feels OJ will become a regular.  Two years from now.   Meanwhile Hughes will have two seasons under his belt before he’s the same age as OJ is now.  To say he hasn’t made the lineup because he’s not a NCAA player is kind of strange to say the least (replying to dialogue of the discussion) or that Hughes hasn’t earned a spot where as OJ is earning it.  (Edit: hes developing, once he gets to a certain point he will have earned it, just like Hughes already has)

 

Benning would have played Hughes right off the hop if he didn’t decide to go back last year, that’s how high he is on him.   The Bouchard comment is incorrect.  Who helped how is more like it, he’s two years younger, just breaking in and paced him.  A year later WITHOUT OJ, OHL defenseman of the year, draft plus one even better and again OHL defenseman of the year, absolute domination of his peer group which is what you’d expect of a high draft pick staying in the CHL draft plus one...and he went five picks later.  Very different performances, I’d trade OJ for Bouchard in a heart beat, saying he’s bad defensively is naive given his age, he’s one of EDMs only bright lights and probably will end up a high scoring D if the McDavid/Drasaitl show stays long enough.  It’s a very real possibility Bouchard will be a regular before OJ too.

 

Heck THN has him as the 13th best prospect in the world right now, the third best D behind Makar and Hughes...OJ still makes the list but was never higher then 23, each year is slipping and now is 66, right around where AG was last year.

-Hughes is arguably more NHL ready (at least offensively) and is more 'dynamic'. He will also likely need be sheltered more defensively and certainly physically. Beyond that I don't really care what you were discussing with the other poster, I separately took issue with a few things you posted.

 

-Again, I don't really care about a 'Hughes vs Juolevi' argument. They're separate, good players. Thankfully, both of whom belong to the Canucks.

 

-The Bouchard comment is not incorrect. He's very good offensively, moving the puck and holding the offensive blue line. He struggles and looks lackadaisical in his own end. Juolevi was tasked with babysitting him defensively that year. Good on Bouchard putting up points, that's his bread and butter and was made easier with OJ's support. He will likely put up more points than OJ in the NHL. I would not trade the two. 

 

-Good for THN. Big shock, people like guys who put up points.

 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, dpn1 said:

I think QH is the better player but you maybe selling OJ short.  I think he will be ready at the end of next this coming season or the next.  I don't think it will take 2 more years for him to be ready.

Benning will make room if he earns a spot.  But it won’t be easy to push Benn out...he’s actually quite good.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Benning will make room if he earns a spot.  But it won’t be easy to push Benn out...he’s actually quite good.

More likely Tanev's moved on from, Benn moves to right side and Juolevi is recalled on 3rd pair.

[189lb enforcers?]

I really hope OJ can earn a spot out of camp, at least for the usual half dozen games given to prize prospects. 

 

That being said, Biega and Stetch have given their all for this team and it won’t be nice to see anyone like that sit out so the management and fans can pet their shiny new toy. 

 

A few of these players deserve some gravy opportunities now after all they’ve been through. Marky  is an example of this. 

 

I can’t help but wonder if JB is going to approach this season with the rebuild in mind or if production will be the priority.

 

Will JB wait until the TDL point to part out Tanev, Sutter, Baer, etc, if the playoffs are out of reach?

 

Will he enter the season with the existing roster intact?

 

Is he planning to continue to rebuild at a pace which is more aggressive than that of a contender this season?

 

Or does JB actually view this roster as a viable window, minus a few tweaks?  

 

I am looking forward to October, when a bigger, tougher Canucks team emerges from out from under the shame-shadow where it’s been stuck for the past decade. Brilliant timing actually, for the 50th and the anointment of a new leadership group and core.

 

Respectfully, only a small minority of posters here can and will recall the past futility of this franchise, but in those dark times the Canucks were among the toughest to play against, a consolation for the players, management and fans.

 

Somewhere along the Gillis-way onwards, that was lost.

 

6-foot tough guys replaced the Brashears, biting hairpullers replaced the Steamer and Captain Canuck was replaced by Captain Meek and mild. The legacy of this franchise as being worthy of wearing black and red colours changed into a pathetic   Dont fight your own battles, pussified, “we didn’t see it” humiliation, deserving of the negative slant in the media. 

 

Enter JB.

After some time, he looks to have repaired the sins of the past by assembling a throw-back roster of players capable AND willing to stand up for the sweater in a way that the previous regime couldn’t or wouldn’t. 

 

I’d rather win and haul ace through the playoffs, but I will be content if this year is only used to forge a new identity and team culture for the Canucks. This much looks possible, if not likely, and for that I am thankful for what this management has assembled here. The window is at least something they can FIGHT for now, by way or desire and a raw will which was missing in the previous seasons here. 

 

I can think of a few minor rebuilding moves I’d like to see the management make and some drastic, risky roster changes, but truthfully I think the days of aggressively rebuilding are over and agree with the change in direction due to the gap in the next wave’s availability. I think the window is now and is open as long as EP is healthy. The day he goes down, fold this team and call it a day as they go nowhere withought him, IMO, but at least they will fight to win now. 

 

Well done. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by 189lb enforcers?

[IBatch]

Just now, aGENT said:

-Hughes is arguably more NHL ready (at least offensively) and is more 'dynamic'. He will also likely need be sheltered more defensively and certainly physically. Beyond that I don't really care what you were discussing with the other poster, I separately took issue with a few things you posted.

 

-Again, I don't really care about a 'Hughes vs Juolevi' argument. They're separate, good players. Thankfully, both of whom belong to the Canucks.

 

-The Bouchard comment is not incorrect. He's very good offensively, moving the puck and holding the offensive blue line. He struggles and looks lackadaisical in his own end. Juolevi was tasked with babysitting him defensively that year. Good on Bouchard putting up points, that's his bread and butter and was made easier with OJ's support. He will likely put up more points than OJ in the NHL. I would not trade the two. 

 

-Good for THN. Big shock, people like guys who put up points.

 

It’s not just points.  He’s not terrible defensively either his knock is skating (although he’s one of the best backward skaters in his draft class).  THN doesn’t rank them, a group of ten pro scouts from separate NHL teams do that and they report the averages, I will take their word for it thank you.   I’m sure Benning would trade him for Bouchard in a heart beat too, but no way the Oilers would.  

 

I’m posting expert opinions with my own mixed in, I followed London to a certain degree, and make a road trips to watch Utica when I can and saw OJ play live twice this year.  Dahlen was great, OJ was good one game bad the next, Brisebois was better both games.  Small sample size no doubt but so is 18 AHL games too.   This Hughes vs Juolevi thing is what came up and I wanted to express my viewpoint, your welcome to your own too, anyone that says OJ was carrying Bouchard isn’t quite accurate but yes it helped him.   Would love to have both them on our team but Bouchard is a prime candidate of someone too good for juniors that would have benefited in the AHL instead draft plus one.