The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

[Ryan Strome]

24 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It was and IS a yes or no question, I frigging asked it. 

 

You mean the NDP?  The National Democratic Party that dropped the word socialist from their name back oil 2013, like I stated only a dozen times?  You really like to trot out your own offal  from time to time to ignore such basic statements.

 

Again Strome.  it's a yes or no question, I asked it.  You failed to answer it.  We both know what that means about the kind of integrity you have.  You'd be wearing the green hat on any deck you'd walk, let's not kid ourselves

NEW democratic Party. 

See why I say your credibility is shot. You vote for them and u don't know there name.

[RowdyCanuck]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

That is correct.

 

Alberta would need to set up the following

 

Police forcer

Currency

Passports

Internal rail

Internal economy

education 

Trade agreements

Energy transfer agreements

First Nations agreements

 

Honestly, the cost of creating their own nation out of the potentially 30% that remains of the province in the event of the clarity agreement standards would effectively bankrupt them then being forced to create energy transfer agreements with corporations that have sucked them dry for years through a nation they just threw their middle finger up to, and a nation that has done everything in their power since the 8ps to keep their oil landlocked...it not only doesn't look good.  It looks like a nation with less purchasing power than the republic of Georgia

Actually not really. 

Theres sheriffs that are paid by towns or RMs lol

money doesn't really matter, depends who we deal with the most could be American dollar or pound or Canadian dollar.....

passports are easy enough just scratch out Canada and put Alberta and if they brake Alberta up like say states.....then town state country......simple in theory. 

Rail is already in place and Canada would have to pay Alberta to lease the land the rail is on.....that could get messy. 

Alberans invest all over lol most oil guys I know invest in other provinces or countries so all their eggs arnt in the same  basket....

schools and healthcare is already set up we just change who pays for it.....yes that might mean cuts like we are seeing now but in time we would get back to being the standard of public schools.....

native Americans Canada already leased their land so we just change who's paying them....

this is all pretty basic stuff but like I said I'm just a simple cowboy not educated like you city folk

[MikeBossy]

I do enjoy the debate in this topic and I think there are a few things to take from it

1) Alberta plays a very important part in the economy of Canada and is within its rights to ask for some assistance and reform around Equalization payments etc

2) Believe it or not the rest of Canada does not want Alberta to leave the country

3) There is some arrogance that is perceived of Albertans and their "we make this country, we pay for everything" rhetoric -  I think most Albertans recognize that they have squandered financial opportunities (well their government has) but many fail to recognize the need to move away from Oil as the primary economic driver - and this is where I think other provinces can make a case for the perceived arrogance.

4) Fact is we are still dependent on Oil and if BC couldn't get their resources to market due to another provinces concerns BC would react much the same

5) There is a huge risk to using pipelines and Oil tankers however there is a huge risk to shipping everything by rail and truck

6) Like many of the posters on here the provincial governments of BC and Alberta and the Federal government are spending way too much time protecting their concerns and not working with the others to find a solution

 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

NEW democratic Party. 

See why I say your credibility is shot. You vote for them and u don't know there name.

My credibility is shot but you completely forget the entire nature, merit and discussion that was being had.  About how the NDP or (New Democrats) of Canada dropped the word socialist from their name in 2013, how the germans were the NDP (national democrats) as well and your ridiculous comparisons between the two as you jumped on EVERY possible thing you could to avoid losing that argument with that ridiculous assertion you were making with like 4 different people who kept throwing credible viable facts in your face you refused to accept because they ran against your beliefs.

 

As well, I don't vote for parties for the 80th time.  I vote for people.  Party beliefs lead to mob mentality which leads to the dumbing down of once intelligent people.  Case in point.  Much of todays right in Alberta as evidenced by this board.

 

Still haven't answered that basic question.  Why?  Don't claim you have.  It's easy to go back to page 70 and see where I asked it and then read through your non replies.  I know Forsberg attempted and you jumped on that, but it wasn't an answer and it wasn't from you.  I asked you and I am still days later waiting for an answer

[RowdyCanuck]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Sorry, does Kinder Morgan own the pipeline?  I can't remember.  Who owns Trans Mountain again?  I mean, I find it hard to believe that Kinder Morgan would agree to clean up ALL costs from any pipeline spill for a pipeline they don't own.  As well, prior to the sale; they had literally no insurance policy owning the right of remediation in the event of a spill off the docks.  

 

Part of that business sense I guess

He did watch that video I posted lol

huskie when their pipeline leaked that had to pay why would that change anywhere else?

[RowdyCanuck]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

My credibility is shot but you completely forget the entire nature, merit and discussion that was being had.  About how the NDP or (New Democrats) of Canada dropped the word socialist from their name in 2013, how the germans were the NDP (national democrats) as well and your ridiculous comparisons between the two as you jumped on EVERY possible thing you could to avoid losing that argument with that ridiculous assertion you were making with like 4 different people who kept throwing credible viable facts in your face you refused to accept because they ran against your beliefs.

 

As well, I don't vote for parties for the 80th time.  I vote for people.  Party beliefs lead to mob mentality which leads to the dumbing down of once intelligent people.  Case in point.  Much of todays right in Alberta as evidenced by this board.

 

Still haven't answered that basic question.  Why?  Don't claim you have.  It's easy to go back to page 70 and see where I asked it and then read through your non replies.  I know Forsberg attempted and you jumped on that, but it wasn't an answer and it wasn't from you.  I asked you and I am still days later waiting for an answer

So two people answered your loaded question but you need to hear it from RS so you believe it? 

You worship him or something? Or maybe you think his the lil devil sitting on your shoulder and this is how you talk to each other?

[Warhippy]

Just now, RowdyCanuck said:

Actually not really. 

Theres sheriffs that are paid by towns or RMs lol

money doesn't really matter, depends who we deal with the most could be American dollar or pound or Canadian dollar.....

passports are easy enough just scratch out Canada and put Alberta and if they brake Alberta up like say states.....then town state country......simple in theory. 

Rail is already in place and Canada would have to pay Alberta to lease the land the rail is on.....that could get messy. 

Alberans invest all over lol most oil guys I know invest in other provinces or countries so all their eggs arnt in the same  basket....

schools and healthcare is already set up we just change who pays for it.....yes that might mean cuts like we are seeing now but in time we would get back to being the standard of public schools.....

native Americans Canada already leased their land so we just change who's paying them....

this is all pretty basic stuff but like I said I'm just a simple cowboy not educated like you city folk

OK here we go

 

A provincial police force would cost billions.  BILLIONS.  Ontario Provincial Police by reports cost $979 million in 2012 alone.  That is just operating costs.  Last years expenses showed $1.7 billion 

 

Money doesn't matter?  What?  Uh yes.  it does.  American companies pay CAD in Canadian oil sands ventures.  if they had to pay USD they'd be running even faster.  IS that some fancy new trade talk I don't know about "money doesn't matter" it's up there with "the budget will balance itself"

 

Passports are easy?  Sorry what?  You're aware that workers visas, citizens travel rights and more are HUGE parts of travel and trade agreements right?  That's not only not how it works it's ludicrous

 

Rail is in place.  That is CP and CN rail.  Since Alberta stands to leave as much as 70% of its existing landmass behind.  There will be corridors for rail that exists where Canada wouldn't pay Alberta a dime.  BUT, all rail coming from the east or the coast coming in to Alberta...would be subject to tariffs and taxation for inter country transport

 

Albertans invest.  So does almost every Canadian with the money to do so.  But in the event of Alberta leaving canada they then become subject to separate and excess forms of taxation.  Do you think what remains of Alberta will allow money to just leave the new nation without some sort of penalty or new taxation?  Think canada won't tax it harder? Really curious there.

 

Schools and healthcare are set up.  You change who pays for it.  Curious.  What about the almost $6 billion in health transfers Alberta is currently getting from the country of canada?  You think it means cuts like you are seeing now, but no...so much worse.  A sudden and completely $6 billion shortfall AND the loss of access to CPP.  Tell me, what will that mean?

 

Native Americans Canada?  What?  You mean First Nations right.  Lemme educate you on this, as a First Nations individual.  First Nations land is NOT your land.  New agreements would need to be created and put in place.  As well, much of their wealth is tied to canada, not Alberta.  Therefore much of first nations land would follow the nation of canada, not Alberta.  That's a federal item not a provincial one.

 

I mean you can say it's basic but....

[RowdyCanuck]

25 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I need for you to explain to me how you think trade works please.  You claim to have a superior grasp on it and I would like the education.

Sarcasm is your friend sir lol

i already know you think I'm all hat and no cattle. 

[Warhippy]

19 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

So two people answered your loaded question but you need to hear it from RS so you believe it? 

You worship him or something? Or maybe you think his the lil devil sitting on your shoulder and this is how you talk to each other?

Nobody answered it. not you or forsberg.  it's not a you question.  it's a strome question.  it highlights his blatant hypocrisy and on going ignorance.  He knows that.  it's why he refuses to answer and is instead hiding behind two non answers put forth by other people.  That is called cowardice.  it's why i asked you not to jump in.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Warhippy

[Warhippy]

Just now, RowdyCanuck said:

Sarcasm is your friend sir lol

i already know you think I'm all hat and no cattle. 

My exact statement was, son you're the type who would try to milk a bull

[Warhippy]

11 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

He did watch that video I posted lol

huskie when their pipeline leaked that had to pay why would that change anywhere else?

Canada owns TMX.  Not Kinder Morgan.  Explain how a company that doesn't own a pipeline would be forced to pay for a spill event that they're no longer fiscally responsible for.  I am very curious as to why you think they'd be all of a sudden happy to fork over billions for a spill in a pipeline they no longer own

[RowdyCanuck]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

OK here we go

 

A provincial police force would cost billions.  BILLIONS.  Ontario Provincial Police by reports cost $979 million in 2012 alone.  That is just operating costs.  Last years expenses showed $1.7 billion 

 

Money doesn't matter?  What?  Uh yes.  it does.  American companies pay CAD in Canadian oil sands ventures.  if they had to pay USD they'd be running even faster.  IS that some fancy new trade talk I don't know about "money doesn't matter" it's up there with "the budget will balance itself"

 

Passports are easy?  Sorry what?  You're aware that workers visas, citizens travel rights and more are HUGE parts of travel and trade agreements right?  That's not only not how it works it's ludicrous

 

Rail is in place.  That is CP and CN rail.  Since Alberta stands to leave as much as 70% of its existing landmass behind.  There will be corridors for rail that exists where Canada wouldn't pay Alberta a dime.  BUT, all rail coming from the east or the coast coming in to Alberta...would be subject to tariffs and taxation for inter country transport

 

Albertans invest.  So does almost every Canadian with the money to do so.  But in the event of Alberta leaving canada they then become subject to separate and excess forms of taxation.  Do you think what remains of Alberta will allow money to just leave the new nation without some sort of penalty or new taxation?  Think canada won't tax it harder? Really curious there.

 

Schools and healthcare are set up.  You change who pays for it.  Curious.  What about the almost $6 billion in health transfers Alberta is currently getting from the country of canada?  You think it means cuts like you are seeing now, but no...so much worse.  A sudden and completely $6 billion shortfall AND the loss of access to CPP.  Tell me, what will that mean?

 

Native Americans Canada?  What?  You mean First Nations right.  Lemme educate you on this, as a First Nations individual.  First Nations land is NOT your land.  New agreements would need to be created and put in place.  As well, much of their wealth is tied to canada, not Alberta.  Therefore much of first nations land would follow the nation of canada, not Alberta.  That's a federal item not a provincial one.

 

I mean you can say it's basic but....

Okay police force...you realize in Ponoka we have a training base and have way to many cops! 

Most rural towns only one or maybe two sheriffs. Also cheaper to train and outfit a sheriff then a rcmp, so with that theory rcmp would be based in cities and larger towns so we cut down on that budget. 

We could be similar to Ireland, last I checked they use the pound , so using that logic Alberta would be a free agent....so money doesn't really matter at this time or in this debate. 

Okay so we get rid of the track that isn't making Alberta any money cause farmers and cattle producers already haul there goods so why not add a loading station in heavy tract areas , kinda similar to cattle drives back in the day when they started shippin by rail. 

 

With the money cuts our healthcare will take a hit and same with schools but it's still doable, you would have to make that decision once you knew your budget. 

 

Hey be happy I didn't say Indians, the government already leases their land which oil comes from so just change who pays them....

but I'm just a simple cowboy what do I know lol

[RowdyCanuck]

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Canada owns TMX.  Not Kinder Morgan.  Explain how a company that doesn't own a pipeline would be forced to pay for a spill event that they're no longer fiscally responsible for.  I am very curious as to why you think they'd be all of a sudden happy to fork over billions for a spill in a pipeline they no longer own

Canada bought it thx to b.c's complaining.....that's on you guys! 

Morgan offered a fair deal and you screamed no , so that's all on you now....

[RowdyCanuck]

23 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

My exact statement was, son you're the type who would try to milk a bull

Sorry I thought I climbed up your redneck ladder a bit since I've enlightened you on acouple things and you've done the same for me lol

[Boudrias]

Quite the little discussion going on here. I am going out for lunch so have at it boys. Before I go I'll add to the what if file;

If AB leaves:

- B.C. won't be cut off at the border and goods will transport across AB. The same situation going the other way. Exclude the TMX. This will happen because it is in both parties economic interests. At some point the big boy pants come on. 

- AB will continue to ship their oil south. Not optimum because TMX makes sense but doable. 4 million boe/d is a $70 billion/year industry; Natural gas & petrochemicals $54B; Agriculture $12 B  

- Sum of the parts total a AB GDP $338 B which is 36% larger than BC. 

- Money saved in the suspension of wealth transfers thru equalization and CPP  will be substantial. 

- Any suggestion that AB cannot afford its own country if that is the decision is wishful thinking for naysayers.

- Some are suggesting the USA will simply take AB over. If that was a legit threat then extend it to the whole country as we certainly cannot stop them. The Americans will extend AB the same NAFTA 2.0 deal. They do it because it is in their interest. 

 

Instead of debating how the country could be broken up it makes sense on how it could be kept together. Capital flows within this country are an issue. The fact that 2 provinces control the political agenda in this country is an issue. If saner heads don't prevail then Alberta is more than capable of charting an independent path.  

 

[Ryan Strome]

53 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

My credibility is shot but you completely forget the entire nature, merit and discussion that was being had.  About how the NDP or (New Democrats) of Canada dropped the word socialist from their name in 2013, how the germans were the NDP (national democrats) as well and your ridiculous comparisons between the two as you jumped on EVERY possible thing you could to avoid losing that argument with that ridiculous assertion you were making with like 4 different people who kept throwing credible viable facts in your face you refused to accept because they ran against your beliefs.

 

As well, I don't vote for parties for the 80th time.  I vote for people.  Party beliefs lead to mob mentality which leads to the dumbing down of once intelligent people.  Case in point.  Much of todays right in Alberta as evidenced by this board.

 

Still haven't answered that basic question.  Why?  Don't claim you have.  It's easy to go back to page 70 and see where I asked it and then read through your non replies.  I know Forsberg attempted and you jumped on that, but it wasn't an answer and it wasn't from you.  I asked you and I am still days later waiting for an answer

Nope you told somebody "we have a party called the national democratic party." 

No we don't. 

[RowdyCanuck]

15 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Quite the little discussion going on here. I am going out for lunch so have at it boys. Before I go I'll add to the what if file;

If AB leaves:

- B.C. won't be cut off at the border and goods will transport across AB. The same situation going the other way. Exclude the TMX. This will happen because it is in both parties economic interests. At some point the big boy pants come on. 

- AB will continue to ship their oil south. Not optimum because TMX makes sense but doable. 4 million boe/d is a $70 billion/year industry; Natural gas & petrochemicals $54B; Agriculture $12 B  

- Sum of the parts total a AB GDP $338 B which is 36% larger than BC. 

- Money saved in the suspension of wealth transfers thru equalization and CPP  will be substantial. 

- Any suggestion that AB cannot afford its own country if that is the decision is wishful thinking for naysayers.

- Some are suggesting the USA will simply take AB over. If that was a legit threat then extend it to the whole country as we certainly cannot stop them. The Americans will extend AB the same NAFTA 2.0 deal. They do it because it is in their interest. 

 

Instead of debating how the country could be broken up it makes sense on how it could be kept together. Capital flows within this country are an issue. The fact that 2 provinces control the political agenda in this country is an issue. If saner heads don't prevail then Alberta is more than capable of charting an independent path.  

 

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, MikeBossy said:

Based on what?

 

I know in 2013 the rankings from Macleans magazine had Alberta ranked 5th in University Education. However if it comes to Skilled Labour I would agree.

 

 Albert is the most educated as in post secondary school.  we are also without a doubt the most entrepreneurial place in Canada.

[kingofsurrey]

27 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

 Albert is the most educated as in post secondary school.  we are also without a doubt the most entrepreneurial place in Canada.

Albertan . 2020 

 

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[kingofsurrey]

So great to see Younger Canadians now standing up for our Country  / our planet / our climate..

 

 

 

Metro Vancouver students stage walkout in support of Wet'suwet'en

The walkout will see students walking out of class at Metro Vancouver high schools and universities before heading to Vancouver City Hall where a rally has been scheduled.

STEPHANIE IP 

Updated: January 27, 2020

Metro Vancouver students plan to stage a walkout on Monday in support of the Wet'suwet'en Nation who are pushing back against the Coastal GasLink pipeline. In this file photo, Ta'Kaiya, front, and Sii-am Hamilton, holding a sign, are seen standing with Indigenous youth demonstrating support for the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs in northwest B.C. opposing the LNG pipeline project, in front of the B.C. legislature in Victoria on Friday, Jan. 24, 2020.

Metro Vancouver students plan to stage a walkout on Monday in support of the Wet’suwet’en Nation who are pushing back against the Coastal GasLink pipeline.

 

Organized in part by Sustainabiliteens, the walkout will see students walking out of class at Metro high schools and universities before heading to Vancouver City Hall where a rally has been scheduled.

The rally will include speeches from Patricia Kelly, Jo Walden, Jean Swanson, Jaye Simpson, Ida Manuel and Dakota Bear. The walkout is scheduled to take place at 10 a.m., with the rally scheduled for 11 a.m.

 

It’s unknown how many students are expected to participate.

The walkout and rally is in solidarity with Wet’suwet’en hereditary leaders who are fighting against the Coastal GasLink project, a liquefied natural-gas pipeline in northern B.C.

 

Coastal GasLink is building a 670-kilometre pipeline from B.C.’s northeast to Kitimat, but hereditary Wet’suwet’en chiefs say they have issued an eviction notice to stop the work, although a B.C. Supreme Court injunction prevents interference with pipeline operations. The Coastal GasLink project is approved and permitted, and has the support of elected leaders of First Nations along the pipeline route.

Last week, anti-pipeline protesters halted traffic by land and sea at a Vancouver Island B.C. Ferries terminal, also in support of the Wet’suwet’en. The blockade lasted throughout the morning Jan. 20, before vehicle traffic was allowed through at Swartz Bay.

 

Two days after the blockade, a sit-in at the office of the B.C. ministry of energy resulted in a dozen arrests. The arrests came after 15 hours of talks.

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/metro-vancouver-students-stage-walkout-in-support-of-wetsuweten

sip@postmedia.com