[Discussion] Athanasiou from Detroit

[Provost]

A relative buy low move from a rebuilding team... what do you give up for a 2nd line winger who can play all forward positions and scored 30 goals last season but is having a terrible year this year (along with the entire Detroit lineup)?

Detroit is a relatively good trading partner as they have a ton of cap room (including their LTIR guys who are never coming back)... and they are a team looking towards the future.  The downside is that Yzerman is a great GM and could end up fleecing us.

Reportedly they are interested in some D prospects in the 22-25 range to go along with a great crop of forwards coming.

We could move Juolevi plus a pick in order to dump an Eriksson contract and get back Athanasiou in return... maybe it would take a little more from our side or we would have to take on a smaller, shorter term contract like Helm or Filppula.

Lots of different scenarios, they don't really have a goalie star in the making either (they have Larsson but he is years away at the very least) but if they took Demko or DiPietro it means they also take Eriksson and maybe even Baertschi without us eating money back in return aside from what it would take to sign Athanasiou.

I think he is a decent pick up as he has had a bad year and it is an RFA contract year for him so you have a ton of leverage to sign him for relatively cheap on a 2-3 year deal.  If it ends up that re-upping Markstrom at a decent cap hit is a 4 year term... then Demko becomes pretty expendable as he isn't going to be a back up that long and could get picked on expansion anyways.

Maybe:

Demko

Eriksson

Baertschi
A 2nd or 3rd round pick

 

for

 

Athanasiou
Howard

 

Gives us a veteran back up for just this year as Howard's deal expires after this season.  Saves us well over $3 million in salary this year which basically pays for Petterson and Hughes ELC bonuses so they don't push into next year.  Saves us more money going forward when we need it in the next two seasons and even gives us a chance to fill any holes in the offseason assuming Athanasiou doesn't cost much more than what Baertschi is at the moment.

If Athanasiou doesn't work out, we still haven't lost that trade by a big margin as getting out from under those contracts could cost us that much a a return alone.  The downside doesn't seem very big compared with possible upside.  Also, it could be a bit of a defensive move to keep Colorado from getting him and possibly adding another piece.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Provost

[Phil_314]

If moving Demko and a 3rd moves Loui, gets us a middle-6 forward and a vet backup (albeit not a very good one), I would do it.  (EDIT: just realized he's an RFA after this year, not sure I'd move a valued chip in Demko for him)

 

Detroit gets two veteran scoring wingers (Baertschi and Eriksson should at worst be 3rd line with that forward group?) and a starter.

 

Might we actually want Bernier though?  He's already $1 mil cheaper than Jimmy and is putting up "better" numbers, plus we'd need a backup somehow (don't want to go back to the situation where Mikey is forced to come up when he just isn't ready)

Edited January 12, 2020 by Phil_314

[Provost]

14 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

If moving Demko and a 3rd moves Loui, gets us a middle-6 forward and a vet backup (albeit not a very good one), I would do it.  

 

Detroit gets two veteran scoring wingers (Baertschi and Eriksson should at worst be 3rd line with that forward group?) and a starter.

 

Might we actually want Bernier though?  He's already $1 mil cheaper than Jimmy and is putting up "better" numbers, plus we'd need a backup somehow (don't want to go back to the situation where Mikey is forced to come up when he just isn't ready)

They would probably want Bernier for the rest of this season and next that he is signed for.  Demko isn’t really ready for be a full fledged starter.

 

Howard for us is a stop gap for the rest of the season for maybe 10 starts max and then we sign someone else in the offseason.

 

it seems like a trade that is good for both sides really.  Who knows if we would have to add to get out from that much salary.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

The more I think about bringing in A.A the more I like the idea.

[Kanukfanatic]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

A relative buy low move from a rebuilding team... what do you give up for a 2nd line winger who can play all forward positions and scored 30 goals last season but is having a terrible year this year (along with the entire Detroit lineup)?

He is barely a 3rd line winger on the Canucks. He has 19 points, the same as Leivo. Last year might have been an anomaly as no other year did he have anywhere close to those numbers.

 

I would give up very little. Maybe a 3rd in 2021 of a C prospect.

[Elias Pettersson]

AA has great speed but is having a bad year so not sure if last year was an outlier or not.  With Hoglander, Podkolzin and Lind coming up I’d like to see what the kids can offer before bringing in a veteran like AA who is an RFA and would want big dollars to sign long term.  Getting rid of Eriksson and Baertschi’s contract would be great but I’m not sure this is the best way to do it.

[Provost]

3 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

He is barely a 3rd line winger on the Canucks. He has 19 points, the same as Leivo. Last year might have been an anomaly as no other year did he have anywhere close to those numbers.

 

I would give up very little. Maybe a 3rd in 2021 of a C prospect.

He is having a bad year, but from 2015-16 to 2018-19 he had the 5th best even strength goals per 60 minutes of any forward in the league.  He doesn’t get prime PP minutes and efficiently performs in his minutes.  This year is the historic anomaly, so it is a much better bet to think he is going to be good when he is on a team that isn’t terrible... than to think he disappeared.

 

He would be a good line mate with Pearson and Horvat as he could use his speed and finish, and won’t take up a spot on the PP where we already have two good units.

https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2019/4/1/18286775/go-greece-lightning-evaluating-andreas-athanasious-impact-on-the-red-wings

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Provost

[Provost]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

AA has great speed but is having a bad year so not sure if last year was an outlier or not.  With Hoglander, Podkolzin and Lind coming up I’d like to see what the kids can offer before bringing in a veteran like AA who is an RFA and would want big dollars to sign long term.  Getting rid of Eriksson and Baertschi’s contract would be great but I’m not sure this is the best way to do it.

With a bad year he isn’t going to get to command big dollars or term.  You could  sign him for 2-3 years for Baertschi kind of money that lets him become a UFA when it expires.  this year gives him no arbitration case.
 

That is a perfect stop

gap until those guys make it. Podkolzin is probably a guy that starts on the 3rd line and works his way up as he gets experience in the league... so a year competing with a veteran for the 2nd line spot doesn’t hurt him (or us) at all.

[Noble 6]

We need defensemen way more than forwards in the short and long term. 

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

He is having a bad year, but from 2015-16 to 2018-19 he had the 5th best even strength goals per 60 minutes of any forward in the league.  He doesn’t get prime PP minutes and efficiently performs in his minutes.  This year is the historic anomaly, so it is a much better bet to think he is going to be good when he is on a team that isn’t terrible... than to think he disappeared.

 

He would be a good line mate with Pearson and Horvat as he could use his speed and finish, and won’t take up a spot on the PP where we already have two good units.

https://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2019/4/1/18286775/go-greece-lightning-evaluating-andreas-athanasious-impact-on-the-red-wings

 

Fair enough.  You may be right that he could be a buy low player and maybe he is playing mediocre hockey because of the crap team he is on.

 

I would give up a 3rd but no more.  We have a glut of forwards as it is.  

 

I think throwing in Demko in your proposal is getting rid of what could be a very good young goaltender for a mediocre forward.  However, if we were able to actually ditch loui and baer I suppose it is something the team should consider.  That does free up a ton of cap.

 

But why does Detroit do this?  Demko may be a good prospect. I have no idea what type of goalie prospects Detroit has.  On the Detroit board some fans want them to go after a UFA goalie like Marky if he makes it to the summer.

 

Their fans also want to hang on to AA unless they get a high pick for him.

 

While your reasoning for wanting AA is not a bad idea I suppose, I don't think JB would get a good trade considering he would need to deal with Yzerman. Just my opinion.

 

 

[GhostsOf1994]

After posters complaining about goalie depth you want to trade the future starter for cap space and plugs?

 

Is howard better then either canucks goalie?NO

 

Is moving 6 million in louie Eriksson for howard at 4 mill? 

 

Plus picks?

 

Plus demko?

 

Who does AA  replace in the lineup?

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser 

Pearson Horvat Leivo 

Roussel Gaudette Virtanen 

Ferland Beagle Sutter 

Motte schaller eriksson 

Baer goldy

 

Only way Demko goes to Detroit is for Moritz Seider!

[Provost]

Ditching $25 million in dead cap space over the next three years... ya that is worth a lot.  Toronto gave up a

1st for one year of Marleau.

 

Without moving out significant salary this year, we can say goodbye to Tanev and Stecher in the off-season and not be able to replace them with anything that costs money.

 

Athanasiou > Leivo by a good margin and would start on our 2nd line spot currently held by Eriksson.

 

... and you are losing 1 1/2 seasons of that goalie depth before Seattle takes one of them.  Goalies are going to be worth almost nothing on the trade market after this year because teams know they could lose one for nothing in return.

[BPA]

I'd be OK with this trade.

 

Looks like we will be signing Markstrom to an extension.  Seattle will probably pick Demko.  So might as well get something (even if it's just to get cap space).

 

 

[Canucklehead73]

Boeser Miller Pettersson

Pearson Horvat Ericksson???

Rousell Gaudette Virtanen???

Motte Beagle Schaller

 

 Injuries Sutter, Leivo, Ferland

Top 6 Prospect Podkolzin

 

To be honest guys I think we are ok at forward, I think Virtanen should be cracking the top 6 now bumping Ericksson down, Pearson is hitting his stride with Horvat.... If Podkolzin comes in as advertised we have a pretty solid top 6 lineup as well as a well rounded bottom 6. There are a couple IF's I will admit... IF Pearson keeps it up, IF Virtanen keeps developing IF those two solidify a great second line we are golden! Ad in Podkolzin...

 

Maybe you should be looking to poach a defensman? Benn, Fantenberg, Stetcher have zero offense ability and very little grit to offset... We just hope they play good postitionally and keep us in the game... they have no real impact. I would rather have the bottom paring play well postitionally and be mean and nasty hitters at the very least.

 

 

[N7Nucks]

I suggested AA in another thread. It’s just smart business. Would ideally like a right handed winger to compliment our predominantly left handed top 6. But I like AA. 

[Provost]

3 hours ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Boeser Miller Pettersson

Pearson Horvat Ericksson???

Rousell Gaudette Virtanen???

Motte Beagle Schaller

 

 Injuries Sutter, Leivo, Ferland

Top 6 Prospect Podkolzin

 

To be honest guys I think we are ok at forward, I think Virtanen should be cracking the top 6 now bumping Ericksson down, Pearson is hitting his stride with Horvat.... If Podkolzin comes in as advertised we have a pretty solid top 6 lineup as well as a well rounded bottom 6. There are a couple IF's I will admit... IF Pearson keeps it up, IF Virtanen keeps developing IF those two solidify a great second line we are golden! Ad in Podkolzin...

 

Maybe you should be looking to poach a defensman? Benn, Fantenberg, Stetcher have zero offense ability and very little grit to offset... We just hope they play good postitionally and keep us in the game... they have no real impact. I would rather have the bottom paring play well postitionally and be mean and nasty hitters at the very least.

 

 

Pearson, Motte, and Schaller all have contracts expiring before Podkolzin or Hoglander are reasonably expected to play at the EARLIEST in the NHL even as rookies.  Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel all have contracts expiring the year after, when we could reasonably expect those two rookies to be taking more meaningful minutes.  We will have plenty of roster spots open at forward.

Also, any deal for Athanasiou as an RFA coming off a terrible year is going to be 2-3 years at most... so he could also be a stop gap and coming off the books at the same time we have younger players ready to make meaningful contributions.

We do need defence, but that would be an entirely different deal and would also be facilitated by having actual cap space to acquire one.  Right now, we won't be able to afford to keep the D we have now, never mind improving.

The cap dump element of this is at least, if not more important than what we get in return.

[mll]

Custance seems to think that Detroit could get a 1st round pick for him - he doesn't mention cap dumps.  

 

He writes:  "Detroit’s rental options aren’t going to net a huge return, so if Steve Yzerman wants to add, say, a first-round pick, he may have to move one of his young forwards. And Athanasiou is an option. “ I don’t think he’s Steve’s cup of tea,” said an NHL source."

 

Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm, Filpulla, Glendenning all 30+ players and all signed through next season.

 

Colorado initially had quite a few veterans and their team continued to be bad.  Sakic then changed course.  He brought in more young players to develop them at the NHL level.  He was saying it's better to lose while young players are developing than losing playing veterans.

 

Detroit is going to be bad for a while - wouldn't be surprising if they do like Colorado.  Keep the spots for young players rather than add veterans.  Apparently the moral on the team is good despite the losing.   Detroit is probably content to draft high a few more years.

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by mll