oldnews Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Robert Long said: OK so beyond the Fs not being injured, what do we need to add to address this? Aside from Hughes (.905)....Edler and Tanev = the workhorses - had the next lowest oisv% at .937 and .940...Myers .952, Stecher .953, Fantenburg .969 The biggest 'room' for improvement there... is Hughes growing stronger, more experienced, etc... And second - getting more support - particularly from the forwards most responsible to support him, down low - the centers.... not having EP and Gaudette, for example in that role, would make a significant difference, circumstances they are 'normally' able to provide. One thing I would do - is sign an additional veteran shutdown center...ie Richardson, as I've proposed - so, for example, the 3rd line, even with Sutter on the limp/wing has a pair of natural centers - one/two LH/RH punch - and you could move Richardson to C and Sutter to wing and you have a relative equivalence, as opposed to a line you now need to shelter when it's least possible to do so - in the latter rounds of the playoffs against deep, talented, heavy, fast opponents like Vegas (or St Louis, or Dallas, or Tampa....) Overlapping center injuries are very difficult to manage imo - adding a guy like Richardson - a high end faceoff guy, a good counterpuncher (like Sutter, Richie scored 19g a season ago, with 33.7% ozone starts, 16 at even strength and 3 shorthanded - he'd also deepen and make the penalty kill even better.... I think the simple - and obvious 'answer' most people give - is 'more size' on the blueline. But it isn't that simple imo. If you are giving up mobility, vision, quick decisions, the first pass...in exchange for 'size' - then don't assume things will get 'better'. If it were that simple, they woulda/coulda/shoulda just dressed Benn over Stecher.... If you're replacing a Tanev or Stecher with 'size' that has to be size that can play, that is comparatively effective - not as easy to do as simply subbing in any apparently serviceable bigger defenseman. Personally, I would be more focused on acquiring a young succession possibility like Cal Foote than looking for simplistic goalpost chasing 'answers' like size. Tampa, for example, may have a huge blueline - but it is made up of Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak - these guys aren't simply big - they can both move, and play - they are extremely talented. Edited October 4, 2020 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, EP40. said: Once again, wrong. nvmd. Edited October 4, 2020 by oldnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 One thing I have noticed is that there is a lot more Canucks speculation stories this year after what they did in the playoffs. Before all the players were going to the Leafs or Oilers and Flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Boeser Virtanen Gaudette 2021 1st (unprotected) Think this would be a package that would get the Panthers thinking about moving Ekblad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks-12 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Brock Botanen said: Boeser Virtanen Gaudette 2021 1st (unprotected) Think this would be a package that would get the Panthers thinking about moving Ekblad. That’s a massive overpayment! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Canucks-12 said: That’s a massive overpayment! well thats good then. means we can get him for less than id be willing to pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 35 minutes ago, oldnews said: Aside from Hughes.....Edler and Tanev = the workhorses - had the next lowest oisv% at .937 and .940... The biggest 'room' for improvement there... is Hughes growing stronger, more experienced, etc... And second - getting more support - particularly from the forwards most responsible to support him, down low - the centers.... not having EP and Gaudette, for example in that role, would make a significant difference, circumstances they are 'normally' able to provide. One thing I would do - is sign an additional veteran shutdown center...ie Richardson, as I've proposed - so, for example, the 3rd line, even with Sutter on the limp/wing has a pair of natural centers - one/two LH/RH punch - and you could move Richardson to C and Sutter to wing and you have a relative equivalence, as opposed to a line you now need to shelter when it's least possible to do so - in the latter rounds of the playoffs against deep, talented, heavy, fast opponents like Vegas (or St Louis, or Dallas, or Tampa....) Overlapping center injuries are very difficult to manage imo - adding a guy like Richardson - a high end faceoff guy, a good counterpuncher (like Sutter, Richie scored 19g a season ago, with 33.7% ozone starts, 16 at even strength and 3 shorthanded - he'd also deepen and make the penalty kill even better.... I think the simple - and obvious 'answer' most people give - is 'more size' on the blueline. But it isn't that simple imo. If you are giving up mobility, vision, quick decisions, the first pass...in exchange for 'size' - then don't assume things will get 'better'. If it were that simple, they woulda/coulda/shoulda just dressed Benn over Stecher.... If you're replacing a Tanev or Stecher with 'size' that has to be size that can play, that is comparatively effective - not as easy to do as simply subbing in any apparently serviceable bigger defenseman. Personally, I would be more focused on acquiring a young succession possibility like Cal Foote than looking for simplistic goalpost chasing 'answers' like size. Tampa, for example, may have a huge blueline - but it is made up of Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak - these guys aren't simply big - they can both move, and play - they are extremely talented. you've mentioned the bolded before and I think thats probably something Benning would love to add to the team. I wonder if Nosek will be available, given that Vegas is already over the cap. I like this whole OEL thing even though it doesn't solve the F gaps, he's not a Tyson Barrie that just brings offence, he's reliable for 20+ minutes and can be part of PP2. I suspect the team will play a similar way next year and it relied on quality over quantity of shots, and OEL can certainly help in that area as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Brock Botanen said: Boeser Virtanen Gaudette 2021 1st (unprotected) Think this would be a package that would get the Panthers thinking about moving Ekblad. 13 minutes ago, Canucks-12 said: That’s a massive overpayment! Yeah, take out Gaudette.... regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Robert Long said: you've mentioned the bolded before and I think thats probably something Benning would love to add to the team. I wonder if Nosek will be available, given that Vegas is already over the cap. I like this whole OEL thing even though it doesn't solve the F gaps, he's not a Tyson Barrie that just brings offence, he's reliable for 20+ minutes and can be part of PP2. I suspect the team will play a similar way next year and it relied on quality over quantity of shots, and OEL can certainly help in that area as well. Miller is that for EP - he was simply injured. Beyond that Gaudette wasn't really ready to handle center duty in the playoffs - I'd lean towards him winding up a winger - and look to avoid an inexperienced center in that position - and therefore I'd look at a player like Richardson. if people perceive dzone inadequacies - inability to handle the forecheck, inability to defend adequately against the waves of Vegas pressure - what better solution than a Barrie or a Krug? /s Edited October 4, 2020 by oldnews 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, oldnews said: if people perceive dzone inadequacies - inability to handle the forecheck, inability to defend adequately against the waves of Vegas pressure - what better solution than a Barrie or a Krug? /s Lol you just proved you don’t watch Boston much. Krug can more than handle forecheck pressure. He’s one of the best in the league at slipping forecheckers and moving the puck. Grouping Barrie and Krug together is just ignorant. Edited October 4, 2020 by DeNiro 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Lol you just proved you don’t watch Boston much. Krug can more than handle forecheck pressure. He’s one of the best in the league at slipping forecheckers and moving the puck. Grouping Barrie and Krug together is just ignorant. Cool story. Krug lead Boston with 68.4% ozone starts - because they intend to rely so heavily on him for his elite zone exits. 26 powerplay assists. 12 at even strenght. Just what Vancouver needs - a left handed top powerplay unit quarterback!! Poor goal metrics years consecutively in spite of his deployment. You've really thought this one out. Mocking Barrie relative to Krug....why don't you try the work of comparing their defensive numbers over the years..... And just to be clear - you are prepared to offer Krug more than 6.5x6? Edited October 4, 2020 by oldnews 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Just now, oldnews said: Cool story. Krug lead Boston with 68.4% ozone starts - because they intend to rely so heavily on him for his elite zone exits. 26 powerplay assists. 12 at even strenght. Just what Vancouver needs - a left handed top powerplay unit quarterback!! Poor goal metrics years consecutively in spite of his deployment. You've really thought this one out. And mocking Barrie relative to Krug....why don't you try the work of comparing their defensive numbers over the years..... Ironic that a guy that constantly mocks analytics uses them to try and win an argument. Watch a game instead of just spewing useless stats. Do you think because he starts in the O zone more that that somehow means he can’t handle forecheck pressure. Must have missed that in your deep dive stats there. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: Ironic that a guy that constantly mocks analytics uses them to try and win an argument. Watch a game instead of just spewing useless stats. Do you think because he starts in the O zone more that that somehow means he can’t handle forecheck pressure. Must have missed that in your deep dive stats there. Vegas' ozone possession in that series cannot be remedied by a poweplay specialist and player that Boston utilizes as heavily weighted out of his own zone as possible - as much as anyone on that team. The Canucks difficulty with the waves of possession does not reduce down to the alleged inadequacy of a few of their defensmen - one or both of Tanev or Stecher, the expiring D people propose to replace. The answer to that is not a Barrie or Krug - arguably a downgrade on Tanev when it comes to facing/dealing with the kind of pressure Vancouver did late in that series. Krug scoring 26 and 28 powerplay assists the past few years....while having pretty weak 5 on 5 seasons.... Combined with the fact this team has a #1 pp LHD named Hughes... His principal strength - is an overlap with Hughes, who produces as much as Krug on the powerplay, and Hughes outproduced him 5on5- as a rookie. Where are you proposing to play Krug? Another LHD - wanting 6.5+ x 6 yrs - with Edler and Hughes also on the left side? His partner? Krug's high ozone starts take precedence over Hughes' minutes? Remove Tanev - add an expensive LHD - it leaves the need for partners for both Hughes and Krug - while the right side is already subject to less depth in the organization. You consider it for a two-way top pairing D like Ekman-larsson who can play in all situations, but for Krug at huge terms, hard pass. Edited October 4, 2020 by oldnews 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP40. Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 3 hours ago, oldnews said: nvmd. 2 hours ago, DeNiro said: Lol you just proved you don’t watch Boston much. Krug can more than handle forecheck pressure. He’s one of the best in the league at slipping forecheckers and moving the puck. Grouping Barrie and Krug together is just ignorant. Don’t bother, Deniro. This user is constantly talking out of his depth and then doubles down every time when proven wrong. Not sure if it was this thread or another - but there was a sequence where he thought Boeser was a reliable defensive forward and a reason not to trade away when underlying numbers show he is the worst on our team amongst forwards. ...I’m also not surprised he edited his post - now I cannot respond to what is was. Just let him ramble on - b/c in fact - his username suits him perfectly - being that he is in fact: old news. Just so full on himself and false narratives assuming he knows more than not just fellow users like us but the top hockey insiders across hockey & Canucks. There’s no point in engaging with someone like that, you simply cannot win. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 On 9/19/2020 at 2:37 PM, EP40. said: 3. As part of this, the Canucks want to begin an overhaul of their blue line. One coach said it was noticeable how differently Dallas could handle Vegas as opposed to Vancouver. The Stars have a big, strong, mobile defence that consistently broke down the Golden Knights’ offence. After he said this, I spent some time re-watching the games, and you can definitely see it. The Canucks clearly felt they had to pack in the middle and defend from there, while Dallas felt very comfortable aggressively challenging Vegas and were successful doing it. The contracts and free agency get the headlines, but this will be a critical part of Vancouver’s planning. (This coach, by the way, also said another difference between Dallas and Vancouver was the Stars sustained pressure in the offensive zone, which forced Vegas’s best forwards to change instead of rushing the puck up ice. Small thing, but a big thing.) 20 hours ago, EP40. said: He’s “overhauled” the defense last season and will continue to. Which is it? Begin an overhaul? Or did they already add Myers last offseason? And Hughes. Edler is going nowhere. The team has more than adequate LHD depth with Fantenburg, Benn, Juolevi, Rathbone, Brisebois, Sautner... So we are talking about two expiring RHD - Tanev and Stecher - not "beginning an overhaul". You can fluff Friedman all you want - these two expiring contracts are not 'wanting to begin an overhaul'. It is not even resolved yet whether they intend to move on from Tanev, where indications are that the team is interested in bringing him back, and Tanev has clearly stated his preference to return. Benning's comments were that he has "tough decisions to make on other guys" - trading other guys to create the cap to re-sign Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli. Benning told TSN1040 that being able to re-sign Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli would require trading other players in order to fit all three under the NHL salary cap, which will remain at $81.5 million next season. "Have to make some tough decision on other guys," Benning said. No indication of 'wanting to begin an overhaul of the blueline'. Might need to replace Tanev if he can't create the cap space...Not exactly an overhaul regardless - it isn't even determined if Stecher will re-signed or not. Friedman, Dayal, Dhaliwal's word, though, should be taken over Bennings... The second part the bolded mystery coach refers to....ironically, is something EP40 believes is wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP40. Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, oldnews said: Which is it? Begin an overhaul? Or did they already add Myers last offseason? And Hughes. Edler is going nowhere. The team has more than adequate LHD depth with Fantenburg, Benn, Juolevi, Rathbone, Brisebois, Sautner... So we are talking about two expiring RHD - Tanev and Stecher - not "beginning an overhaul". You can fluff Friedman all you want - these two expiring contracts are not 'wanting to begin an overhaul'. It is not even resolved yet whether they intend to move on from Tanev, where indications are that the team is interested in bringing him back, and Tanev has clearly stated his preference to return. Benning's comments were that he has "tough decisions to make on other guys" - trading other guys to create the cap to re-sign Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli. Benning told TSN1040 that being able to re-sign Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli would require trading other players in order to fit all three under the NHL salary cap, which will remain at $81.5 million next season. "Have to make some tough decision on other guys," Benning said. No indication of 'wanting to begin an overhaul of the blueline'. Might need to replace Tanev if he can't create the cap space...Not exactly an overhaul regardless - it isn't even determined if Stecher will re-signed or not. Friedman, Dayal, Dhaliwal's word, though, should be taken over Bennings... The second part the bolded mystery coach refers to....ironically, is something EP40 believes is wrong. Do you realize he’s said he’ll have to make “tough decisions” on the teams pending UFA’s too? Yes. But instead, you twisted it to as if he’s catering towards ONLY prioritizing them and nothing beyond that. Which is ludicrous. No team only works internally, they look externally to bring in outside reinforcements. You are completely forgoing that which is sad being it’s common sense management, hockey 101 some would say. And again, you seem incapable of adding up rather obvious clues. As of now, those clues are as simple as 1+1=2 taking into consideration JB’s track record/willingness to bring in a top pair dman from seasons past, the most trusted NHL insider+Canucks insider saying they’re looking to overhaul, and the cherry on top them saying we’re in talks to bring in an OEL. ...when there’s smoke, sometimes it’s a pile of steaming hot you-know-what. But in this instance, it’s clear as day it’s a blazing fire that is being acknowledged by all. Except you it seems...and again not even sure why myself and others are even entertaining your replies. It’s a never ending circle in which you have shown no admitting to even conceivably being wrong once. Something as straight forward as this. Good day to you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, EP40. said: Do you realize he’s said he’ll have to make “tough decisions” on the teams pending UFA’s too? Yes. But instead, you twisted it to as if he’s catering towards ONLY prioritizing them and nothing beyond that. Which is ludicrous. No team only works internally, they look externally to bring in outside reinforcements. You are completely forgoing that which is sad being it’s common sense management, hockey 101 some would say. And again, you seem incapable of adding up rather obvious clues. As of now, those clues are as simple as 1+1=2 taking into consideration JB’s track record/willingness to bring in a top pair dman from seasons past, the most trusted NHL insider+Canucks insider saying they’re looking to overhaul, and the cherry on top them saying we’re in talks to bring in an OEL. ...when there’s smoke, sometimes it’s a pile of steaming hot you-know-what. But in this instance, it’s clear as day it’s a blazing fire that is being acknowledged by all. Except you it seems...and again not even sure why myself and others are even entertaining your replies. It’s a never ending circle in which you have shown no admitting to even conceivably being wrong once. Something as straight forward as this. Good day to you ! talks around an OEL that has indicated he wants to come here - do not therefore indicate an intent to "begin an overhaul". What is this big defense that Friedman and his coach are talking about? the blueline that is the supposed prototype this team is supposed to goalpost chase? Klingberg 180 Heiskanen 185 Hanley 191 Sekera 200 Lindell 215 Oleksiak 255 Hughes 175 Stecher 185 Tanev 197 Fantenburg 206 Edler 212 Myers 229 The Canucks are 4 lbs heavier through the first 5 defensemen on that list - the blueline that is so "big and strong" compared to Vancouver's Okeksiak outweighs Myers - that is the solitary thing that tips that scale by 22 total pounds...divided by 6 defensemen. Nothing to see here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP40. Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldnews said: talks around an OEL that has indicated he wants to come here - do not therefore indicate an intent to "begin an overhaul". What is this big defense that Friedman and his coach are talking about? the blueline that is the supposed prototype this team is supposed to goalpost chase? Klingberg 180 Heiskanen 185 Hanley 191 Sekera 200 Lindell 215 Oleksiak 255 Hughes 175 Stecher 185 Tanev 197 Fantenburg 206 Edler 212 Myers 229 The Canucks are 4 lbs heavier through the first 5 defensemen on that list - the blueline that is so "big and strong" compared to Vancouver's Okeksiak outweighs Myers - that is the solitary thing that tips that scale by 22 total pounds...divided by 6 defensemen. Nothing to see here. Sorry but is this MMA or boxing? Why did you bring out the weighing scale? Not sure what promoted you to go off topic and mention such a ludicrous thing but let me be the first to say, overhaul ≠ weigh scale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, EP40. said: Sorry but is this MMA or boxing? Why did you bring out the weighing scale? Not sure what promoted you to go off topic and mention such a ludicrous thing but let me be the first to say, overhaul ≠ weigh scale the ironing is delicious? er - read the Friedman quote your thread depends on - re: the big, strong D that broke down Vegas...noticeably different how Dallas could handle Vegas.... you know - the basis upon which your entire "overhaul" is supposed to "begin" - chasing the Dallas goalposts. nevermind the leap to assuming that is what would inform Benning....to 'begin' an overhaul....nor the irony that 2 of the biggest 3 D were added the summer before last... er, we just watched the Dallas series, and realized, let's start an overhaul to get bigger. Btw - Ekman-larsson - is 200lbs - he would be joining a blueline that averages 201lbs - hypothetically 'replacing' a defenseman that is 197 lbs..... In order to "overhaul" the blueline - to make it bigger, stronger?? Edited October 4, 2020 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP40. Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 Just now, oldnews said: the ironing is delicious. er - read the Friedman quote your thread depends on - I just quoted it for you - re: the big, strong D that broke down Vegas...noticeably different how Dallas could handle Vegas.... you know - the basis upon which your entire "overhaul" is supposed to "begin" - chasing the Dallas goalposts. nevermind the leap to assuming that is what would inform Benning....to 'begin' an overhaul....nor the irony that 2 of the biggest 3 D were the summer before last... And btw - Ekman-larsson - is 200lbs - he would be joining a blueline that averages 201lbs - hypothetically 'replacing' a defenseman that is 197 lbs..... In order to "overhaul" the blueline - to make it bigger, stronger?? He also said they were able to take the puck out of the zone and sustain offensive zone time which played a major factor in their success. But once again, please go ahead and conveniently ignore that part which he said. “The irony is delicious” - seconded. Overhaul does not equate to weight. How are you even holding discussion with others with such poor general knowledge? You can weigh more than me but I can be “stronger” than you. And by “breaking down” a team, it doesn’t just have to literally mean physically. It’s by hockey smarts and ability which the Stars defense had a mix of. ...look no further than our very own team - is Stecher not strong because he doesn’t weigh as much as others? Was Hansen not strong? Were the Sedins’ not strong? I guess you think Gudbranson was strong for us solely off his weight even though he didn’t know how to throw his weight around and use it. There are many heavy “softies” that are not “strong”. Physically or on the puck or mentally. Now go twist something else out of context...I should take my own advice which Deniro seems to have and not bother with you. Delusional, bonkers, confusing, misleading, whatever you may want to call it - is all that your posts are full of. And you double down every time. My advice would be to stop living up to your name and being mindful of others. How is it that everyone else besides you is wrong? Should sleep on that. But for the sake my own sanity and others that have had meaningful discussion in this thread, yea sure you’re right & we’re all wrong. I’m sure that must be music to your ears 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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