Provost Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, oldnews said: Palat Cirelli Johnson Kucheov Point Johnson Stamkos Cirelli Johnson Palat Point Johnson Palat Johnson Gourde Killorn Cirelli Johnson Those are Johnson's 6 most frequent 5 on 5 line formations this year. Cirelli 44 pts. Palat 41 pts Kucherov 85 pts Point 64 pts Killorn 49 pts Gourde 30 pts. Johnson 51.7% ozone starts. 31 pts. 4th among Tampa forwards in powerplay ice time. You are proposing to bring in that 20 million of contract....? And "boost his value" playing him with Roussel and MacEwen? I mean, anything is "possible" but.....No. thank. you. Hard pass on that not particularly well thought out 'plan'. You are being incredibly disingenuous by cherry picking stats as usual. A season ago Johnson scored 29 goals and 47 points in 3rd line minutes. He has been a reliable 45-50 point guy who can play in all situations. Cirelli is just younger, cheaper, and has overtaken him. We don't have a Cirelli on our team... Almost all his production lately in Tampa has been 5 on 5... no fluffing his goal totals on the PP. Positive numbers everywhere. Repeated Selke voting for him over numerous years, he is a great defensive player. More than double the goals of his fellow 3rd line linemate the season before last... J.T. Miller He isn't worth $5 million only because of the current economic conditions. He isn't the 72 point player he was when playing higher up in the Tampa lineup and getting PP time, but he is on Tampa and hasn't needed to be that. If we get a significant sweetener which would be the only way we do a deal, he is either a legitimate top 6 player for us or an elite 3C who can kill penalties and score 20 goals or more a season. Even if he was on the 3rd line, he would be getting 2nd unit PP time on our team. GMs are also smart enough not to just cherry pick a couple of stats and stare at point totals when evaluating a player. There would definitely be interest in him from Seattle as there is no question Johnson would play a bigger role on our squad than a stacked Tampa Bay one. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Provost said: You are being incredibly disingenuous by cherry picking stats as usual. A season ago Johnson scored 29 goals and 47 points in 3rd line minutes. He has been a reliable 45-50 point guy who can play in all situations. Cirelli is just younger, cheaper, and has overtaken him. We don't have a Cirelli on our team... Almost all his production lately in Tampa has been 5 on 5... no fluffing his goal totals on the PP. Positive numbers everywhere. Repeated Selke voting for him over numerous years, he is a great defensive player. More than double the goals of his fellow 3rd line linemate the season before last... J.T. Miller He isn't worth $5 million only because of the current economic conditions. He isn't the 72 point player he was when playing higher up in the Tampa lineup and getting PP time, but he is on Tampa and hasn't needed to be that. If we get a significant sweetener which would be the only way we do a deal, he is either a legitimate top 6 player for us or an elite 3C who can kill penalties and score 20 goals or more a season. Even if he was on the 3rd line, he would be getting 2nd unit PP time on our team. GMs are also smart enough not to just cherry pick a couple of stats and stare at point totals when evaluating a player. There would definitely be interest in him from Seattle as there is no question Johnson would play a bigger role on our squad than a stacked Tampa Bay one. Some entertaining knee jerk there. An "elite 3C" is my favorite part - a player that has never been under 50% ozone starts, a sub 50% faceoff guy - a guy that killed 4 seconds of penalties / game this season - Tampa's 23rd leading penalty killer.... A year ago!! Johson spent the vast majority of the season playing with Kucherov and Point - his most frequent line combination that did not include those two - was the 4.2% he spent playing the Stamkos and Palat..... 5 on 5 ice time: Kucherov Point Johnson = 50.8% Gourde Point Johnson = 12.5% Palat Johnson Kucherov = 5.95 Palat Stamkos Johnson = 4.2% Kucherov 128 pts Point 92 pts Johnson...47 pts. Yes - putting things in context helps. Er, he was stuck behind those great linematez! Kucherov Point Johnson 4x more frequent linemates than any other combination - his second most frequent line was with Point and Gourde, 3rd most frequent Kucherov and Palat..... But - he is going to uptick on his production here! Playing in the Canucks bottom six! with Roussel and MacEwen...because he's an "elite 3C"! J.h.C. This year he spent his entire season with Tampa's top 9....the only one of his linemates that did not outproduce him was Gourde, who had 1 pt less than Johnson... No, his powerplay production was not inflated - because in spite of getting the 4th most minutes of any Tampa forward = 1:58 of powerplay ice time a game - he scored 1 g and 6 assists on that powerplay. Just a horrible season - playing with very good forwards all around. And a completely unimpressive season the year before, riding on Kucherov and Point's wing - and producing a distant fraction of what they did. Miller 47 pts on Tampa's 3rd line. Johnson 47 pts playing with Kucherov and Point. The comparable...is.....evident! 7 points and -7 in 25 playoff games this post season, with 52.3% offensive zone starts. Shocking that no one claimed that $20 million contract off waivers. You two might want to figure out what the entire NHL knows - and you don't - and hence the entire league passed on him. But, but, of course Seattle would claim him! Cuz we're gonna uptick him = to an elite 3C via Roussel and Mac....if only he'd played with that kind of elite 3rd line talent in Tampa... Edited October 16, 2020 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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oldnews Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Provost said: More than double the goals of his fellow 3rd line linemate the season before last... J.T. Miller Talk about comical cherry picks... 2018/19 Johson 47 pts playing with Kucherov and Point Miller 47 pts playing with Cirelli and Killorn And yet, here @Provost is, fluffing that season of Johnson's..... But that's not even the best part - the best part was your take on JT Miller.... Quote On 6/24/2019 at 12:37 PM, Provost said: Worst case, we gave up a top lottery pick plus a sweetener for a slight upgrade in Sutter. Best case, we paid full retail value on an average top 6 player. Edited October 16, 2020 by oldnews 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks-12 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I say don’t give up any assets to get rid of bad contracts. Ride out of the wave next 2 years and after that Canucks will be set with only good contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Canucks-12 said: I say don’t give up any assets to get rid of bad contracts. Ride out of the wave next 2 years and after that Canucks will be set with only good contracts. Depends on what the cost is and if it allows us to acquire a good young player. For example I would have no problem trading a 1st to dump Eriksson if we were able to acquire Cernak or Tuch on the cheap. Both of those players are guys I would gladly trade a 1st for anyways. Having cap space this offseason is more valuable than most offseasons because of teams cap crunches. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, oldnews said: Talk about comical cherry picks... 2018/19 Johson 47 pts playing with Kucherov and Point Miller 47 pts playing with Cirelli and Killorn And yet, here @Provost is, fluffing that season of Johnson's..... But that's not even the best part - the best part was your take on JT Miller.... what a bunch of reactionary WADR... You haven’t pulled that old standard hack trick of yours for a long time, I must have really hit a nerve for you to spend your evening scouring through hundreds of my old posts to find and necro one that you can try to take out of context... you don’t have much of a varied playbook... . Can’t take the time to look at my posts on that thread for context. Right from about an hour after the trade after getting over the shock of them not making the 1st lottery protected (immediately after Ottawa was facing giving up a 1st overall in an ill advised trade), I had the same take. We win the Miller trade if that 1st was from 20-31; we lose the trade if it turns out to be a top 10; and we don’t know until much later if it turns out to be an 11-19 pick. Miller player well enough to make a mid round pick still a win. Great, Miller outplayed expectations for a year. I should have given more weight to him being buried deeper in the Tampa lineup where his role was to defer to the star players. ... you know, exactly what you are doing right now with Johnson... If we had the cap space and Tampa was willing to give us a 1st or Cernak... I do that deal all day long, as does pretty much everyone else... not matter how you cherry pick single stats from various seasons to make up a story. Edited October 16, 2020 by Provost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Depends on what the cost is and if it allows us to acquire a good young player. For example I would have no problem trading a 1st to dump Eriksson if we were able to acquire Cernak or Tuch on the cheap. Both of those players are guys I would gladly trade a 1st for anyways. Having cap space this offseason is more valuable than most offseasons because of teams cap crunches. Ding Ding Ding... this exactly. Maybe make a pick top 5 protected or something just to reduce the risk, but the value right now of cap space could create massive trade opportunity, well beyond what a mid/late 1st round pick wild likely garner. Being bad has a cost, being good creates opportunities. If we show progress next year, we create a better bargaining position for Petterson and Hughes, as well as attracting free agents who may be looking for a cheap short term deal until the cap crunch isn’t as nasty... it won’t be much better next offseason than this. If we take a big step backwards, it costs us more to sign our own players and attracting any free agents. Just as one example, getting one of Killorn, Palat, or Johnson plus a guy like Cernak make us significantly better on paper than we are now and better than last season. We clearly have good will with our players and amongst players in the league that lee giving the same message about how our team opened their eyes while in the bubble. We need to leverage and build on that, not squander it. We have a lot of important players to re-sign over the next 2 offseasons... give them a reason to stay here at a discount. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsuro88 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 maybe a 3-way trade on this: TB 7th round pick (DET) VAN Tyler Johnson (TB) $500k retained (net $4.5M cap) 2nd Round pick (TB) DET Loui Eriksson (VAN) 1st Round Pick (TB) 5th Round Pick (VAN) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tetsuro88 said: maybe a 3-way trade on this: TB 7th round pick (DET) VAN Tyler Johnson (TB) $500k retained (net $4.5M cap) 2nd Round pick (TB) DET Loui Eriksson (VAN) 1st Round Pick (TB) 5th Round Pick (VAN) Honestly i would be fine if JB just did Eriksson+ 2nd+ prospect to get rid of him and then go to TB and get a 2nd back to take Johnson with like 1M retained. Edited October 16, 2020 by Nicklas Bo Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 11 hours ago, Provost said: I must have really hit a nerve you hit the funny bone, alright. thanks for the laugh. much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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