(Proposal) Tyler Johnson and more

[VegasCanuck]

Okay, so completely hypothetical proposal here, I doubt Tampa would do this

 

To Vancouver

Tyler Johnson

2021 1st round pick

 

To Tampa

Baerstchi 1 million retained

2021 2nd or 3rd round pick

 

Then,

 

To Ottawa:

Tampa 2021 1st round pick

Loui

 

To Vancouver

2021 6th round pick

Future Consideration

 

We free up 4 million in space for Tampa, and they can free up 1 million more by sending Baer to their farm team if he can't make it out of camp.

 

We lose a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year but free up about 8 million + in dead cap space but eat up 5 million of that with an effective winger who just won a cup.

 

This would free us up to sign our remaining RFA's and probably add one more D

 

Thoughts?

[Fanuck]

I know TB is in a bind right now but so was Vegas.  I see some team acquiring Johnson, not unlike JB getting Schmidt, for cheap , say a 4th rounder or so and I see him doing better than the past season where he was, rightfully so, pushed somewhat down the depth chart in TB.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

31 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I know TB is in a bind right now but so was Vegas.  I see some team acquiring Johnson, not unlike JB getting Schmidt, for cheap , say a 4th rounder or so and I see him doing better than the past season where he was, rightfully so, pushed somewhat down the depth chart in TB.

I'm a big Johnson fan but he just cleared waivers and no one took him for free. Unless Tampa retains 30% or more of his salary I don't see him having any value right now.

[Phil_314]

He's probably got too much term for us to really consider.  

For the next couple years we'll have too many guys locked up, and keep in mind it's flat cap so no added space available.
Brock, Bo, Miller each north of $5 million; Ferland (presuming he doesn't retire), Roussel, Beagle, (presumably) Virtanen each at $3.  Pete also needs a deal.  
Blue line, Myers, Schmidt each are basically $6 mil.  Replacement for Edler (unless it's Juolevi for cheap since he's unproven) would at least be several of Edler's $6 million.  Hughes needs a new contract the year after, and 10.2c aside he'll still want north of $6 mil easily. 

Demko (presuming he's the starter now) could command $3-$3.5 for his first big contract, paired with Holtby at $4.3.  

Assuming Benning doesn't buy out any long contracts (and before he replaces Pearson and Benn's depth role) that's probably around $50 million for the guys mentioned above plus Johnson.  If he wants any upgrades or reinforcements in any other area he might not be able to fit in Johnson.

[oldnews]

Johnson is a 20 million cap dump over 4 years of term.   Period. 

 

We're not in a position to eat cap for futures - certainly not that kind of cap.  Propose this years before an EP or Hughes arrive, it might make 'rebuild' sense - but it doesn't for this team at this stage.

 

2nd and a 3rd to move 3 million of cap this season, 1 next, and then add 2x5 million at the critical junctures, a few years in the future?

 

I just dont' see how this adds up as positive value for the Canucks in any form.

 

Dumping Baertschi alone and waiving Eriksson accomplishes this - without eating Johnson - and Baertschi alone is not likely to cost a 2nd and a 3rd to dump....and even if he did, we come out on the other side with no Johnson....

 

Eriksson at 2x6 = is actually preferable to a 4x5 cap dump - and the point is to move Eriksson's contract, not replace it longer term without any real payoff.

 

[Fanuck]

1 hour ago, Teemu Selänne said:

I'm a big Johnson fan but he just cleared waivers and no one took him for free. Unless Tampa retains 30% or more of his salary I don't see him having any value right now.

True,  completely forgot about the waivers.   Just don't see how TB rids themselves of this contract then.  I'm assuming their GM already contemplated retaining with no results?

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Okay, so completely hypothetical proposal here, I doubt Tampa would do this

 

To Vancouver

Tyler Johnson

2021 1st round pick

 

To Tampa

Baerstchi 1 million retained

2021 2nd or 3rd round pick

 

Then,

 

To Ottawa:

Tampa 2021 1st round pick

Loui

 

To Vancouver

2021 6th round pick

Future Consideration

 

We free up 4 million in space for Tampa, and they can free up 1 million more by sending Baer to their farm team if he can't make it out of camp.

 

We lose a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year but free up about 8 million + in dead cap space but eat up 5 million of that with an effective winger who just won a cup.

 

This would free us up to sign our remaining RFA's and probably add one more D

 

Thoughts?

Normally, I would say that Tampa would decline that deal, but after seeing the Neverlanch Ranch level screw job of the Canucks on Vegas for Nate Schmidt yesterday, I'm now of the belief that anything can help in this bizarre covid world.

 

Having said that, I still think Tampa declines that deal.   

 

On top of that, I'd be interested in seeing an actual cap break down in terms of how we'd be able to afford all of Demko, Pettersson, and Hughes for 2021-2022 with Tyler Johnson on the books.   Remember - Baertschi is off the books after this coming season.   His contract won't pose a threat to our big three.   

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:

He's probably got too much term for us to really consider.  

For the next couple years we'll have too many guys locked up, and keep in mind it's flat cap so no added space available.
Brock, Bo, Miller each north of $5 million; Ferland (presuming he doesn't retire), Roussel, Beagle, (presumably) Virtanen each at $3.  Pete also needs a deal.  
Blue line, Myers, Schmidt each are basically $6 mil.  Replacement for Edler (unless it's Juolevi for cheap since he's unproven) would at least be several of Edler's $6 million.  Hughes needs a new contract the year after, and 10.2c aside he'll still want north of $6 mil easily. 

Demko (presuming he's the starter now) could command $3-$3.5 for his first big contract, paired with Holtby at $4.3.  

Assuming Benning doesn't buy out any long contracts (and before he replaces Pearson and Benn's depth role) that's probably around $50 million for the guys mentioned above plus Johnson.  If he wants any upgrades or reinforcements in any other area he might not be able to fit in Johnson.

Agreed with this.

 

People have to remember that it's not just Petey and Hughes that we have to worry about for 2021-2022.   Demko will need to be re-upped as well, and if what we saw from Demko in these playoffs was his coming out party as the next elite goaltending superstar, then that's going to require copious amounts of coinage.    

 

The other thing to factor in an Edler replacement.    Will Juolevi, Rathbone, or a returning Tryamkin be good enough to play on a 2nd pairing with Schmidt or Myers next season?  If not - you might have to re-sign Edler for another year, or turn to the UFA market.   Bringing Tryamkin back will be nice, but he'll probably cost around 3 million himself.  

 

Canucks need to be very careful with regards to who they spend money on from here on out.        

 

For me, it's Vatanen or Hamonic on a one year deal or GTFO.   

[PunjabiCanucks]

Come 2022- 2023, Ericksson is off the book. Roussel, Beagle are off the books.

 

We could keep Sutter as a 3rd line center if Gaudette doesnt work out but south of 2 million if we do. Would be great is Pearson signs south of 3 so he can be our 3LW. 

 

Enter Poldkozin and Hoglander on ELC. 

We would have 55M in cap space - also of note Miller and Horvats deal expire that season.

 

Petty I would love if we could sign on a long term deal at 10M x 8years and Hughes at 9 M x  8 years. Assuming 20 Mill goes to them and Demko plays like how he did in the playoffs (7M) - Thats 27 M locked up in 3 players.

 

Boeser takes 7.5 M himself and now we have 35Mill approx in 4 players. Miller and Horvat could take 7 each in their next contract - assuming 15 for the both. 50Million in your core of 4 forwards, 1 dman, 1 goalie.

 

^ Thats scary - we need to get lucky and see the cap rise in 2 years when our struggle begins 

Myers and Schmidt take up another 12 and now we have 62 Million.

 

We need to sign 9 more forwards, 3 defenceman, 1 back up goalie with 20Million.

 

Heres hoping Benning can get bargain deals out of our core and create a contender.

 

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Agreed with this.

 

People have to remember that it's not just Petey and Hughes that we have to worry about for 2021-2022.   Demko will need to be re-upped as well, and if what we saw from Demko in these playoffs was his coming out party as the next elite goaltending superstar, then that's going to require copious amounts of coinage.    

 

The other thing to factor in an Edler replacement.    Will Juolevi, Rathbone, or a returning Tryamkin be good enough to play on a 2nd pairing with Schmidt or Myers next season?  If not - you might have to re-sign Edler for another year, or turn to the UFA market.   Bringing Tryamkin back will be nice, but he'll probably cost around 3 million himself.  

 

Canucks need to be very careful with regards to who they spend money on from here on out.        

 

For me, it's Vatanen or Hamonic on a one year deal or GTFO.   

I see fitting players in as a moving target for the next few years, it's going to take a lot of creative deal making, league wide.

 

What I'm proposing isn't a perfect solution. Ideally, next off season, we'd take a player like Johnson, bundle home with a 2nd round pick and say, Happy Birthday Kraken!

 

Right now, we need to improve and sow commitment to our new core, that we will constantly work to be better. Johnson for the next year, would be an upgrade on Baerstchi and Eriksson. Trying to think of ways to accomplish this without giving up too much in term or core assets or draft picks, as some have chosen to do.

 

It's extremely likely that we are at a flat cap for at least next off season and a strong possibility for the following as well.

 

I believe that both Pettersson and Hughes will likely do short term, bridge deals, banking on the cap to increase again in 3 years. This would allow them to lock in at a higher rate, later into their careers.

 

I know there is really no chance of this happening, but trying to think of creative approach to ultimate improvement instead of just parking Eriksson in Utica to save 1 million.

 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

True,  completely forgot about the waivers.   Just don't see how TB rids themselves of this contract then.  I'm assuming their GM already contemplated retaining with no results?

Yeah, I'm not sure what BriseBois has up his sleeve - Johnson & Killorn seem like the most desirable contracts to move from his perspective, but both have some level of NMC/NTCs.

 

Retention may be one option, and adding a sweetener will be the other (which I think this original proposal is touching on). TB has yet to lock up any of Sergachev, Cirelli or Cernak - all of whom would command decent value.

 

Palat & Gourde had great playoffs, so I'm sure he'd rather not lose them, but you never know.

 

BriseBois did trade his second next year for an additional one this year to quickly "replenish" his prospect pool, so I'm guessing he's looking for a team to move some picks/prospects for one of Johnson and/or Killorn + either Cirelli or Cernak - as I strongly doubt he'd risk losing Sergachev after this cup run.

 

[Provost]

8 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Okay, so completely hypothetical proposal here, I doubt Tampa would do this

 

To Vancouver

Tyler Johnson

2021 1st round pick

 

To Tampa

Baerstchi 1 million retained

2021 2nd or 3rd round pick

 

Then,

 

To Ottawa:

Tampa 2021 1st round pick

Loui

 

To Vancouver

2021 6th round pick

Future Consideration

 

We free up 4 million in space for Tampa, and they can free up 1 million more by sending Baer to their farm team if he can't make it out of camp.

 

We lose a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year but free up about 8 million + in dead cap space but eat up 5 million of that with an effective winger who just won a cup.

 

This would free us up to sign our remaining RFA's and probably add one more D

 

Thoughts?

I responded to this in another thread....but...

Make the trade with Ottawa first... Eriksson + Baertschi + 1st for whatever.  We could make it bigger and swap Tierney and Virtanen as well possibly.

Then make a trade with Tampa to take on Johnson +Cernak and give them Gaudette and Rafferty.

Frees up about $9.4 million in cap space for us and we eat about $9 for Johnson and Cernak.  We have significantly upgraded two positions, and it cost us a 1st round pick plus a couple of young players.  We can even expose Johnson to expansion and he is a hometown Seattle kid and Stanley Cup winner who could be attractive to them.

Tampa frees up the $5 million for Johnson and gets two cheap players in positions they are trying to exit expensive veterans in.  There isn't likely any way they can get rid of enough money to sign all three of their big RFAs, so prioritizing them I think Cernak is most expendable with Foote right behind him ready for a role (as well as Rafferty).

I don't see Tampa moving Foote since they need that cheap player, and we don't need Foote as much as we need an established top 4D.  Tampa isn't just in cap hell this year, they basically have no real money coming off the books for a few years.  There is no bandaid that helps them get by until contracts expire.  Palat is the first one and he has two years left... right when they have to use a bunch of that money to re-sign Point to a raise.  Killorn has 3 years of term, Johnson 4, and Gourde 5 years.   All of them have limited or full NTC to make them hard to move to bottom dwellers... they are all owed too much term and money to likely get picked up if they are waived.  Maybe Killorn...but they need to move three guys to afford their three RFAs.

Miller-Petterson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Johnson
Roussel-Tierney-Sutter
Motte-Beagle-MacEwan
Ferland-

Edler-Schmidt
Hughes-Cernak
Juolevi-Myers
Chatfield

Next year Edler signs for cheap or is let go and Schmidt can go back to the left side.
 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Provost

[Patel Bure]

On 10/13/2020 at 7:45 PM, PunjabiCanucks said:

Come 2022- 2023, Ericksson is off the book. Roussel, Beagle are off the books.

 

We could keep Sutter as a 3rd line center if Gaudette doesnt work out but south of 2 million if we do. Would be great is Pearson signs south of 3 so he can be our 3LW. 

 

Enter Poldkozin and Hoglander on ELC. 

We would have 55M in cap space - also of note Miller and Horvats deal expire that season.

 

Petty I would love if we could sign on a long term deal at 10M x 8years and Hughes at 9 M x  8 years. Assuming 20 Mill goes to them and Demko plays like how he did in the playoffs (7M) - Thats 27 M locked up in 3 players.

 

Boeser takes 7.5 M himself and now we have 35Mill approx in 4 players. Miller and Horvat could take 7 each in their next contract - assuming 15 for the both. 50Million in your core of 4 forwards, 1 dman, 1 goalie.

 

^ Thats scary - we need to get lucky and see the cap rise in 2 years when our struggle begins 

Myers and Schmidt take up another 12 and now we have 62 Million.

 

We need to sign 9 more forwards, 3 defenceman, 1 back up goalie with 20Million.

 

Heres hoping Benning can get bargain deals out of our core and create a contender.

 

 

 

I would even argue that Eriksson will be off the books as early as next season via retirement (only 2 million in real dollars owed), or via trade (1 year deal + sweetener = moveable contract a la Marc Staal style).

 

ps - Even with a strong performance this coming season, I don’t think Demko will get 7 million.  5.5-6 million tops.   Beagle and Roussel will be off the books by the time Horvat, Miller, and Boeser get reupped.  Ferland will likely be LTIR’d or retired at some point in the not so distant future, while Myers or Holtby will likely be claimed in the Expansion draft.  We should be fine cap wise once we get through the 2021 off season cap storm.
 

 

[VegasCanuck]

On 10/13/2020 at 7:45 PM, PunjabiCanucks said:

Come 2022- 2023, Ericksson is off the book. Roussel, Beagle are off the books.

 

We could keep Sutter as a 3rd line center if Gaudette doesnt work out but south of 2 million if we do. Would be great is Pearson signs south of 3 so he can be our 3LW. 

 

Enter Poldkozin and Hoglander on ELC. 

We would have 55M in cap space - also of note Miller and Horvats deal expire that season.

 

Petty I would love if we could sign on a long term deal at 10M x 8years and Hughes at 9 M x  8 years. Assuming 20 Mill goes to them and Demko plays like how he did in the playoffs (7M) - Thats 27 M locked up in 3 players.

 

Boeser takes 7.5 M himself and now we have 35Mill approx in 4 players. Miller and Horvat could take 7 each in their next contract - assuming 15 for the both. 50Million in your core of 4 forwards, 1 dman, 1 goalie.

 

^ Thats scary - we need to get lucky and see the cap rise in 2 years when our struggle begins 

Myers and Schmidt take up another 12 and now we have 62 Million.

 

We need to sign 9 more forwards, 3 defenceman, 1 back up goalie with 20Million.

 

Heres hoping Benning can get bargain deals out of our core and create a contender.

 

 

 

Even if Demko does play like he did in the playoffs (doubtful that he could sustain that over a whole season), he's not getting 7 million. His next contract will be in the 3.5 - 4.5 range, 1 - 2 years. With the flat cap, there would be no reason for him to make that type of commitment to a longer contract, all players know that they will be in a better position to negotiate longer term deals, 2 - 3 years down the road, once fans are back in buildings.

 

I would go as far as suggesting that Petterson and Hughes are likely both 2 - 3 year bridge deals around 7.5 - 8 million and will likely bank on the idea that the cap will start to rise again and that they can lock in closer to 11 or 12 million.

 

Boeser's next contract, you're about bang on, I think will be about 7.5 million, long term deal.

 

Until fans get back in the buildings, the cap is staying where it is, and as we've seen this off season, players will be signing for less than they are used to signing for.

 

If we weren't in flat cap, Toffoli is 5.5 - 6 million per season.

 

This team will continue to push to the cap, and we'll continue to see guys who are on their ELC's, making up a larger portion of the team. This is the way of the NHL for the next few seasons.

 

All things being equal, Duclair would be signed right now for 5+ per season. As it sits, at 25 years old, coming off a 23 goal season on a bad team, he'll be lucky to get 2.5 - 3 million.

[Lazurus]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:33 PM, Fanuck said:

I know TB is in a bind right now but so was Vegas.  I see some team acquiring Johnson, not unlike JB getting Schmidt, for cheap , say a 4th rounder or so and I see him doing better than the past season where he was, rightfully so, pushed somewhat down the depth chart in TB.

Tampa is so up against the cap they will be the team adding a sweetner

Johnson and a 1rst for a bag of pucks, they will not be able to take ANY money back because they have 3 RFA's of quality to sign. IMO they let one go, maybe use one as a sweetner.