Coronavirus outbreak

[-DLC-]

10 minutes ago, bolt said:

Omicron has been running wild in South Africa and other places for over a month with mild cases.  So I guess I'm a troll for having a different view than yourself.  

No, you're (perhaps) a troll for ignoring requests to cite sources and to respond to claims you've made.  So please, do so.

 

Also, the inflammatory way you present your "case".

[stawns]

1 minute ago, bolt said:

Omicron has been running wild in South Africa and other places for over a month with mild cases.  So I guess I'm a troll for having a different view than yourself.  

You're a troll because we're two years into this and you still haven't learned anything, but you keep playing the same hand over and over and over.

 

There's a good chance omicron might turn out to be mild, that's what we all want, but you refuse to look at the bigger picture.  Everytime we get over confident, we get smacked down and people get very sick and people die.  Of course we're going to be extremely cautious until we know with certainty.  

 

You also seem to gloss over the fact that delta hasn't gone away and is surging as well.  The vaxxed are mainly dealing with omicron, but delta is still out there causing severe sickness and deaths, primarily among the unvaxxed.

 

[gizmo2337]

Our top doctor is a genius in psychological aspects of a pandemic. Captain obvious sees she has no idea about the science though. Covid is airborne and *primarily* spreads through the air. But hey, go wash your hands instead of wearing a proper mask. The top doctor knows best. Bonnie is ignoring the science even recommended by the WHO. Her failure to admit the disease is airborne is really sad. She should know better having been part of SARS1 and had 2 years to do the reading on SARS2. 
I'll give you a hint. There is plenty of proper science papers that covid is airborne. To be clear, my qualm is about recommendations for proper masks and ventilation, not the quarantine measures.
 

[stawns]

Just now, gizmo2337 said:

Our top doctor is a genius in psychological aspects of a pandemic. Captain obvious sees she has no idea about the science though. Covid is airborne and *primarily* spreads through the air. But hey, go wash your hands instead of wearing a proper mask. The top doctor knows best. Bonnie is ignoring the science even recommended by the WHO. Her failure to admit the disease is airborne is really sad. She should know better having been part of SARS1 and had 2 years to do the reading on SARS2. 
I'll give you a hint. There is plenty of proper science papers that covid is airborne. To be clear, my qualm is about recommendations for proper masks and ventilation, not the quarantine measures.
 

Didn't she just announce it was airborne?

[gizmo2337]

Just now, stawns said:

Didn't she just announce it was airborne?

The quote I read was "there is no evidence to support that" which was truly insulting, because there is plenty of science papers on it. Or maybe I missed a re-quote in the past 2 days.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

The quote I read was "there is no evidence to support that" which was truly insulting, because there is plenty of science papers on it. Or maybe I missed a re-quote in the past 2 days.

"In a shift in messaging, Henry also acknowledged the greater spread of the Omicron variant in the air was a factor in its high transmissibility."

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8473155/bc-covid-19-update-christmas-eve/amp/

 

I agree with you, for the most part, on hers, and many others, refusal to acknowledge aerosol transmission to this point in the pandemic.

[-DLC-]

 

12 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

Our top doctor is a genius in psychological aspects of a pandemic. Captain obvious sees she has no idea about the science though. Covid is airborne and *primarily* spreads through the air. But hey, go wash your hands instead of wearing a proper mask. The top doctor knows best. Bonnie is ignoring the science even recommended by the WHO. Her failure to admit the disease is airborne is really sad. She should know better having been part of SARS1 and had 2 years to do the reading on SARS2. 
I'll give you a hint. There is plenty of proper science papers that covid is airborne. To be clear, my qualm is about recommendations for proper masks and ventilation, not the quarantine measures.
 

First of all, she's pushed all along for a number of measures, not just hand washing:  masks (it's up to us to have learned about "proper" masks by now and make a responsible decision).  Avoiding close contact.  Hand washing, yes.  She never said "go wash your hands instead of".  All along, it's been a number of things we all can do to protect ourselves and, at this point, it's about loosening some restrictions when we're able to and then having to revisit them as things change.  There's a balance that's being struck as much as possible.  We're ALL learning on the fly and she's fairly well equipped to do so.

 

The goal is obviously to do what it takes to keep our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed and people from becoming seriously ill.  She's done a good job of leading us through that and is trying to balance out "life getting back to normal" with weighing out current risks and the situation at hand.   She's well aware of the fact that people are tired and is trying to find a happy medium that keeps people as safe as possible.

 

Please show us where/how she's ignoring the science?   These variants present new challenges and I trust that she IS doing her research and carefully weighing it all out.  If she doesn't have all the answers on an immediate basis...I'm not sure many do (yet).

 

Here are her qualifications....but sure, challenge her.  What are yours?

 

Quote

Dr. Bonnie Henry was appointed as Provincial Health Officer for the Province of BC in 2018. As BC’s most senior public health official, Dr. Henry is responsible for monitoring the health of all British Columbians and undertaking measures for disease prevention and control and health protection. Most recently, Dr. Henry has led the province’s response on the COVID-19 pandemic and drug overdose emergency. 

Dr. Henry’s experience in public health, preventative medicine and global pandemics has extended throughout her career. Prior to her current role, Dr. Henry was the deputy provincial health officer for three years. She also served as the interim provincial executive medical director of the BC Centre for Disease Control (BCCDC) from December 2013 until August 2014.

She was the medical director of Communicable Disease Prevention and Control and Public Health Emergency Management with the BCCDC and medical director for the provincial emerging and vector-borne diseases program, as well as a provincial program for surveillance and control of healthcare associated infections from 2005 to 2014.

Dr. Henry joined Toronto Public Health in 2001 as Associate Medical Officer of Health, where she was responsible for the Emergency Services Unit and the Communicable Disease Liaison Unit. In 2003, she was the operational lead in the response to the SARS outbreak in Toronto. She was a member of the executive team of the Ontario SARS Scientific Advisory Committee.

Dr. Henry is a specialist in public health and preventive medicine and is board certified in preventive medicine in the U.S. She graduated from Dalhousie Medical School and completed a Masters in Public Health in San Diego, residency training in preventive medicine at University of California, San Diego and in community medicine at University of Toronto.

She has worked internationally including with the WHO/UNICEF polio eradication program in Pakistan and with the World Health Organization to control the Ebola outbreak in Uganda.

Dr. Henry is an associate professor at the University of British Columbia, Faculty of Medicine. She is the past chair of Immunize Canada and a member of the Canadian National Advisory Committee on Immunization and the National Infection Control Guidelines Steering Committee. She chaired the Canadian Public Health Measures Task Group and was a member of the Infection Control Expert Group and the Canadian Pandemic Coordinating Committee responding to the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic.

She has been involved with planning, surveillance and response to mass gatherings in Canada and internationally, including with the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. She is also the author of “Soap and Water and Common Sense” a guide to staying healthy in a microbe filled world.

 

 

[gizmo2337]

Just now, stawns said:

"In a shift in messaging, Henry also acknowledged the greater spread of the Omicron variant in the air was a factor in its high transmissibility."

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8473155/bc-covid-19-update-christmas-eve/amp/

 

I agree with you, for the most part, on hers, and many others, refusal to acknowledge aerosol transmission to this point in the pandemic.

SARS1 was also aerosol and she was involved in that. Her credentials are no longer relevant to me. We make the fibers for N95 masks right here in BC, and ship them to 3M in USA. We also make masks right here in Burnaby. I managed to get a box the other day, but it's probably the last of 10 boxes in the province. 

There's no greater aerosol spread with omicron variant. It's always been that way with respiratory diseases! The only thing that is different with omicron is it takes less viral load to infect you. You are at even greater risk if you don't wear a proper mask in public. The statement should have been easy to make from health perspective.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

SARS1 was also aerosol and she was involved in that. Her credentials are no longer relevant to me. We make the fibers for N95 masks right here in BC, and ship them to 3M in USA. We also make masks right here in Burnaby. I managed to get a box the other day, but it's probably the last of 10 boxes in the province. 

There's no greater aerosol spread with omicron variant. It's always been that way with respiratory diseases! The only thing that is different with omicron is it takes less viral load to infect you. You are at even greater risk if you don't wear a proper mask in public. The statement should have been easy to make from health perspective.

I agree it's been aerosol from the beginning.  However, it's not just her who has been dancing around that.

[JM_]

17 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

Our top doctor is a genius in psychological aspects of a pandemic. Captain obvious sees she has no idea about the science though. Covid is airborne and *primarily* spreads through the air. But hey, go wash your hands instead of wearing a proper mask. The top doctor knows best. Bonnie is ignoring the science even recommended by the WHO. Her failure to admit the disease is airborne is really sad. She should know better having been part of SARS1 and had 2 years to do the reading on SARS2. 
I'll give you a hint. There is plenty of proper science papers that covid is airborne. To be clear, my qualm is about recommendations for proper masks and ventilation, not the quarantine measures.
 

So if Henry's motivations aren't to be of service to BC and keep the damage as low as possible, what do you think she's up to?

[gizmo2337]

I have no idea. Bonnie was brilliant in 2020, and a complete failure in 2021. I can only assume she backed herself into her own corner. I guess it's hard to admit your own failure?

-we make the mask fibers in BC

-we make masks in BC

-no recommendations for proper KN95+ masks

-the teachers union is trying to get proper masks for ages, but can't get any. I feel sorry for those that know better.

-the science including WHO suggests masks and proper ventilation should be primary response to mitigate risk

-still no proper public response on aerosol transmission, and the public thinks washing their hands is the primary response. 

-if in doubt, go check the japan response and why their case numbers are low. It's better ventilation and masks.

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

Just now, gizmo2337 said:

I have no idea. Bonnie was brilliant in 2020, and a complete failure in 2021. I can only assume she backed herself into her own corner. I guess it's hard to admit your own failure?

-we make the mask fibers in BC

-we make masks in BC

-no recommendations for proper KN95+ masks

-the teachers union is trying to get proper masks for ages, but can't get any. I feel sorry for those that know better.

-the science including WHO suggests masks and proper ventilation should be primary response to mitigate risk

-still no proper public response on aerosol transmission, and the public thinks washing their hands is the primary response. 

-if in doubt, go check the japan response and why their case numbers are low. It's better ventilation and masks.

 

 

 

 

you're mixing a lot of things up here. Manufacturing is out of her hands.

 

And as far as this article goes, I don't see her "failing" on mask recommendations, its more around trying to accurately describe it, e.g. is this variant (or others) more or less virulent than other ones like measles?

 

and she is recommending mask use: https://globalnews.ca/news/8473155/bc-covid-19-update-christmas-eve/

 

you can pick out errors along the way, but overall Henry and Dix have done a decent job.

 

[bolt]

16 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I have no idea. Bonnie was brilliant in 2020, and a complete failure in 2021. I can only assume she backed herself into her own corner. I guess it's hard to admit your own failure?

-we make the mask fibers in BC

-we make masks in BC

-no recommendations for proper KN95+ masks

-the teachers union is trying to get proper masks for ages, but can't get any. I feel sorry for those that know better.

-the science including WHO suggests masks and proper ventilation should be primary response to mitigate risk

-still no proper public response on aerosol transmission, and the public thinks washing their hands is the primary response. 

-if in doubt, go check the japan response and why their case numbers are low. It's better ventilation and masks.

 

 

 

 

She's dealing with an unstoppable new variant. Bonnie didn't appease to either side (ie. Closing gyms while keeping casinos open) Not much anyone can do now. 2020 Alpha covid vs 2021 delta and omicron are different beasts.

Edited December 27, 2021 by bolt

[gizmo2337]

https://globalnews.ca/news/8473155/bc-covid-19-update-christmas-eve/

"Editor’s note: a previous version of this story said the province had acknowledged the “airborne” spread of Omicron. In fact, officials acknowledged the increased risk of aerosol transmission, but did not describe it as airborne by the ‘definitions we use in a health-care setting.’"

Same continued ignorance. Covid is airborne, and she won't say those words. The revision to the original was probably because she realized how badly she was about to get roasted in not following the science (as a scientist). No need to fight semantics or definitions. Maybe they will change the definition next week instead of admitting the failure?
It travels through the air, and they knew that since 2003 SARS1. Get BC some masks and work on the ventilation. The science says so.

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8473155/bc-covid-19-update-christmas-eve/

"Editor’s note: a previous version of this story said the province had acknowledged the “airborne” spread of Omicron. In fact, officials acknowledged the increased risk of aerosol transmission, but did not describe it as airborne by the ‘definitions we use in a health-care setting.’"

Same continued ignorance. Covid is airborne, and she won't say those words. The revision to the original was probably because she realized how badly she was about to get roasted in not following the science (as a scientist). No need to fight semantics or definitions. Maybe they will change the definition next week instead of admitting the failure?
It travels through the air, and they knew that since 2003 SARS1. Get BC some masks and work on the ventilation. The science says so.

Again, I agree with what you're saying and do think the province has been bad for fence sitting through it all.  However, I also acknowledge that BC has done pretty well through this pandemic

[Gawdzukes]

3 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8473155/bc-covid-19-update-christmas-eve/

"Editor’s note: a previous version of this story said the province had acknowledged the “airborne” spread of Omicron. In fact, officials acknowledged the increased risk of aerosol transmission, but did not describe it as airborne by the ‘definitions we use in a health-care setting.’"

Same continued ignorance. Covid is airborne, and she won't say those words. The revision to the original was probably because she realized how badly she was about to get roasted in not following the science (as a scientist). No need to fight semantics or definitions. Maybe they will change the definition next week instead of admitting the failure?
It travels through the air, and they knew that since 2003 SARS1. Get BC some masks and work on the ventilation. The science says so.

Maybe the problem is you're paying to  much attention to a talking head. Everybody knows you're supposed to wear a mask regardless of the description given in a press release, aerosol, airborne, touch, whatever. It's just common sense. She probably has a reason not to call it airborne or whatever your complaining about which was conceived while collaborating with all the other health care personnel she works with.

 

Why would someone be concerned with this unless they're just trying to needlessly bash someone? I thought you guys had access to masks in BC, or are you saying she got rid of them all? They're readably available everywhere else in Canada.

[GSP*]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Again, I agree with what you're saying and do think the province has been bad for fence sitting through it all.  However, I also acknowledge that BC has done pretty well through this pandemic

They’ve said this variant has “changed things” but unless I’m missing it I haven’t seen any updated protocols or discussions regarding return to school. 

[Ghostsof1915]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

Again, I agree with what you're saying and do think the province has been bad for fence sitting through it all.  However, I also acknowledge that BC has done pretty well through this pandemic

Considering the extremes on both sides that's probably the best you can do. 

[bolt]

4 minutes ago, GSP* said:

They’ve said this variant has “changed things” but unless I’m missing it I haven’t seen any updated protocols or discussions regarding return to school. 

Bonnie said its inevitable we'll come across this new variant, so not much we can do.  The two options are complete lockdowns and the current system.  Arguably both don't work and will be fought by both sides of the spectrum.

Edited December 27, 2021 by bolt

[gizmo2337]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Again, I agree with what you're saying and do think the province has been bad for fence sitting through it all.  However, I also acknowledge that BC has done pretty well through this pandemic

I commend Bonnie for her 2020 response, I personally think it was excellent. The 2021 response and measures aren't backed by science and among the worst on the planet.

"definitions we use in a health-care setting.’"

That's politics and legal responsibility right in the wording. If she says covid is airborne with no masks to protect, who do you sue when your family member dies? She is not a lawyer or a politician though, and should start reading the science in her own field.