[proposal] With the Pearson signing, would trading Motte+ for a decent 3rd line center make sense?

[DownUndaCanuck]

Motte's one of the best bottom-6 players in the league - plays hard, kills penalties and can score big goals. The playoffs is where he really shines, he's very much a Chris Higgins-type player in his prime. 

 

Unfortunately I think his worth is more than what his true trade worth is if that makes sense - he's treated as a 1-2M player and a 10-15 minute forward but in actual fact he does so many things for a team to make them successful that he's worth much more, money and trade-wise.

 

I'd love to acquire a solid center (Tierny from Ottawa is a prime example who has been thrown around a lot) and that will cost us, if Motte can get it for us then absolutely I'd have a look but I've got a feeling his value isn't as high as it should be for a player who brings so much to a team.

[higgyfan]

I wouldn't give up Motte for cheap 3C.  Our team needs to retool the bottom 6, not trade away the best player/leader.

 

My preference is to look at the upcoming UFA market.  The C market is excellent this year.  If the team has the cap hit, they can pick up a young C that could be signed for multiple years.  There's several that will be in the 3-4m range.

 

If not, there are a lot of vets that are aging out, but still have the skill to perform for a couple more years.  I don't think we'll see last year's Covid desperation cheap signings, but I still think there will be some solid Cs in the 2m range.

[Phil_314]

7 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

why do you like faska so much? the only thing that stands out as special is his size and has very good faceoff% (but one extra possession per game is whatever)I feel players like these are available every year in free agency. 

Contenders (or would-be contenders) need that impact 3rd C who's good on draws, can transition the puck and has defensive ability to provide depth up the middle and take on shutdown duties.  Bo's not cut out to be a shutdown guy (his numbers in his own end aren't all that great) and we're still figuring out what Gaudette will be for us. Of course if we can sign Laughton for not that much money to fill that role without giving up any assets then that's great.  My offer might have been a bit much with both JV and Motte, but at least an offer built around JV should be sent their way as we'd need to clear cap and offer some value for someone that the Stars might see as a foundational piece.  The question would be whether Motte's value would also be needed in exchange.

Also, seeing JB's record I would prefer him not to dip into free agency.  Knowing him he'll unearth another Sutter/ Roussel doozy of a contract and lock the guy in until he's in his mid 30's at $4 million or something crazy.  This year's UFA class is also either all has-been's in their 30's or guys like RNH, Lowry and Danault who will still get paid.  Faksa at $3.25 is palatable, plus he's only 27, is durable (has hardly missed any games in his career) and does not have any movement clauses.  

[BigTramFan]

13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'd be in favour of a trade to get a legit 3C.  Lowry is probably unreachable because of our cap space so most likely we'd have to trade for one.

 

Gaudette is never going to be our 4th line centre, but on another team he could be a winger on the 2nd or 3rd line, and Motte probably has the most trade value of anyone worth trading.  Gaudette is cheap and tradeable and Motte is on a great contract so I'd do a Motte and Gaudette deal to get a legit 3C.  Not sure who is out there but I'd be looking.  Especially with Beagle maybe being done we definitely will need a 3C/4C for next year.  Kole Lind might be a candidate to fill one of those 2 spots as well.

 

I don't think Seattle will take Loui, even with a first round pick.  I am hoping he has agreed to retire and go back to Sweden to make Sedish meatballs in his restaurants.

What is your opinion on Lowry's next deal? I figure he could be looking at a 4m x 4 years. If this is the case, I reckon the Canucks need to go for it. He fills a significant area of need, and is a clear cut #1 UFA for that 3C spot.

 

That contract is do-able with these assumptions/moves:

- Sign UFA Lowry for 4m

- Beagle + Ferland on LTIR

- Resign EP 7m, QH 7m, Edler 2m, Hamonic 2m, Tryamkin 2m, Gaudette 1m, Vesey 1m

- Sign Podz to ELC 925k

- Buy out Eriksson, Holtby

- Waive Roussel

- Sign Wedgewood 1.5m as backup goalie

 

Roster next season $81.3m including all recaptures & buy outs (excl LTIR):

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Hoglander

Vesey Lowry Podkolzin

Motte Gaudette Virtanen

(Lind)

 

Edler Schmidt

Hughes Hamonic

Juolevi Myers

(Rathbone Tryamkin)

 

Demko

Wedgewood

 

Looks ok to me. Would expect Lind and Jasek to fight Gaudette for that 4C role at training camp. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

What is your opinion on Lowry's next deal? I figure he could be looking at a 4m x 4 years. If this is the case, I reckon the Canucks need to go for it. He fills a significant area of need, and is a clear cut #1 UFA for that 3C spot.

 

That contract is do-able with these assumptions/moves:

- Sign UFA Lowry for 4m

- Beagle + Ferland on LTIR

- Resign EP 7m, QH 7m, Edler 2m, Hamonic 2m, Tryamkin 2m, Gaudette 1m, Vesey 1m

- Sign Podz to ELC 925k

- Buy out Eriksson, Holtby

- Waive Roussel

- Sign Wedgewood 1.5m as backup goalie

 

Roster next season $81.3m including all recaptures & buy outs (excl LTIR):

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Hoglander

Vesey Lowry Podkolzin

Motte Gaudette Virtanen

(Lind)

 

Edler Schmidt

Hughes Hamonic

Juolevi Myers

(Rathbone Tryamkin)

 

Demko

Wedgewood

 

Looks ok to me. Would expect Lind and Jasek to fight Gaudette for that 4C role at training camp. 

I also think Lowry will get 4x4. It’s possible Benning can squeeze that contract in. But Beagle would have to go on LTIR and Aquilini would have to agree to 2 buyouts. 
 

Lowry would be a huge upgrade on anyone we have. And he’s a heavyweight fighter to boot. I’d do a 4x4 for him no problem. I’m hoping Pearson’s deal doesn’t screw up our summer. I guess we will have to have faith in Benning that he knows things that we don’t.
 

Maybe Loui has agreed to retire. Maybe Aquilini is okay with some buyouts. We don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. It just seems weird that signing Pearson even before the season is over was such a big priority. It’s like Benning knows something that we don’t. 

[Pazura92]

I didn’t want to start a thread about this ,

but what’s up with grabner ?

if we could get him to sign here then our lines could be 

hoglander-Peterson-grabner 

podz-horvat-boeser

pearson-Miller-Virtanen/gaudette

mac-Lind-motte

 

everyone else as forwards I don’t care for so they can be traded or bought out .. whatever gives us more cap space 

 

[BigTramFan]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I also think Lowry will get 4x4. It’s possible Benning can squeeze that contract in. But Beagle would have to go on LTIR and Aquilini would have to agree to 2 buyouts. 
 

Lowry would be a huge upgrade on anyone we have. And he’s a heavyweight fighter to boot. I’d do a 4x4 for him no problem. I’m hoping Pearson’s deal doesn’t screw up our summer. I guess we will have to have faith in Benning that he knows things that we don’t.
 

Maybe Loui has agreed to retire. Maybe Aquilini is okay with some buyouts. We don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. It just seems weird that signing Pearson even before the season is over was such a big priority. It’s like Benning knows something that we don’t. 

I was asking myself the same question this morning. I think the Pearson signing shocked me a bit because Pearson is a supporting role player. Surely we need to get our core guys signed as a priority and also find out whether Beagle and Ferland are out for all next season before signing Pearson. Also who is Seattle selecting and what is the impact on cap? All of that SHOULD come first. I was thinking the same thing..."what does JB know that we don't know?"...or perhaps I am overthinking it...

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just wondering about 4 candidates for our 3rd line center. What do you think about these guys?

 

1. Lowry (28) $2,900,000 (UFA)...........................................$3,659,000 with 25% raise

2. Laughton (26) $2,300,000 (UFA)......................................$2,875,000  with 25% raise

3. Wennberg (26) $2,250,000 (UFA)....................................$2,812,500 with 25% raise

4. Paul (26) $ 1,350,000 (RFA)

 

I don't see the UFA's getting much more than a 25% raise by their parent club. (Covid and flat cap excuse)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by janisahockeynut

[J.I.A.H.N]

Double post..sorry!

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by janisahockeynut

[BigTramFan]

5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Just wondering about 4 candidates for our 3rd line center. What do you think about these guys?

 

1. Lowry (28) $2,900,000 (UFA)...........................................$3,659,000 with 25% raise

2. Laughton (26) $2,300,000 (UFA)......................................$2,875,000  with 25% raise

3. Wennberg (26) $2,250,000 (UFA)....................................$2,812,500 with 25% raise

4. Paul (26) $ 1,350,000 (RFA)

 

I don't see the UFA's getting much more than a 25% raise by their parent club. (Covid and flat cap excuse)

 

Jan - all good options IMO. JB should be considering all of these guys strongly. And don't put all his eggs in the one basket, because the 3C role is that important.

 

Key stats:

Lowry = 0.49 pts/GP, Av TOI 15.8 mins, 66% dZS, 49.3% FO, 2.5 mins PK/GP

Laughton = 0.46 pts/GP, Av TOI 15.6 mins, 64% dZS, 48.9% FO, 1.9 mins PK/GP

Wennberg = 0.45 pts/GP, Av TOI 18.0 mins, 46% dZS, 50.6% FO, 2.6 mins PK/GP

Paul = 0.31 pts/GP, Av TOI 16.3 mins, 60% dZS, 53.9% FO, 1.8 mins PK/GP

 

I think Lowry is the best choice if we can afford him. Best production with highest Dzone starts. He's also a monster and a good heavy weight fighter if required. Agree that he will be more expensive than the others.

 

Wennberg has been deployed more as an offensive center this season, but he has the skills to take on a more defense orientated role. However my sense is that Wennberg will be keen to stay in Florida as things seem to have fit well for him and he may consider that their contending window has opened and he can be a major part of that.

 

Nick Paul has another year on his current contract and will not be a UFA until the end of next season - so we would have to trade for him.

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

7 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Jan - all good options IMO. JB should be considering all of these guys strongly. And don't put all his eggs in the one basket, because the 3C role is that important.

 

Key stats:

Lowry = 0.49 pts/GP, Av TOI 15.8 mins, 66% dZS, 49.3% FO, 2.5 mins PK/GP

Laughton = 0.46 pts/GP, Av TOI 15.6 mins, 64% dZS, 48.9% FO, 1.9 mins PK/GP

Wennberg = 0.45 pts/GP, Av TOI 18.0 mins, 46% dZS, 50.6% FO, 2.6 mins PK/GP

Paul = 0.31 pts/GP, Av TOI 16.3 mins, 60% dZS, 53.9% FO, 1.8 mins PK/GP

 

I think Lowry is the best choice if we can afford him. Best production with highest Dzone starts. He's also a monster and a good heavy weight fighter if required. Agree that he will be more expensive than the others.

 

Wennberg has been deployed more as an offensive center this season, but he has the skills to take on a more defense orientated role. However my sense is that Wennberg will be keen to stay in Florida as things seem to have fit well for him and he may consider that their contending window has opened and he can be a major part of that.

 

Nick Paul has another year on his current contract and will not be a UFA until the end of next season - so we would have to trade for him.

 

Hi BTF

 

I really like all of these options. Thanks for putting up the stats on them. It was late when I did that, and was getting tired (Lazy) Yes, all are great options. 

 

When I was researching centers for the 3rd line, I used several different factors, when deciding who I wanted. First was cost. The player had to fit in our budget, so as not to handcuff, our other targets (signings). The second thing I targeted was age, I wanted as young of a player as I could find, so to be part of the core for 4 or 5 year at minimum. Thirdly, and most obvious, was that they would defensively responsible, but with offensive upside. Fourthly they had to be playing minimum 15 minutes a night and hopefully more. Lastly but just as important, was size with speed. I wanted anyone we signed to be able to handle a physical game.

 

So, with that, I also wanted drive.........that factor that allows a player to compete on a daily basis with a high standard. I think also was F/O percentage needed to be around 50%. 

 

I wanted guys, that play an honest game, and are aware of themselves on the ice, and know how to play hard without taking needless penalties. A guy that can play hard and hit, check, and angle off, without taking those type of penalties.

 

IMO, the home team that has the player has a handcuff in that they can not just re-sign a player to a huge raise (more than 25% - 30% ) unless the guy has really shown a huge improvement. These guys contribute to their teams in a very positive way but to sign them for much more than that in any year, will send a loud message to their other players that they should re-sign for big dollars. IMO, they do not want that.

 

Where as a UFA coming in, is seen in a different light, and most players will accept the higher dollar value as part of obtaining a good UFA.

 

In saying all that, Benning has to sign a player that will not be a risk to not play to his expected performance level. Which is another reason, these guys are targets. Personally, I would spend a mid round pick (4/5)  to see if we could re-sign him early. Somewhat like the TDL , where you get first chance to re-sign, if you like the player.

 

Yes, Nick Paul is a RFA, and Ottawa may not want to trade him, but will he fit into their internal cap? Either way, Benning needs to sneakedly, be interviewed in the press to say he will be actively looking to Free Agency to get a center. He can use the Beagle injury as a reason, but it will send a message to the UFA agents not to have their clkients re-sign with their original clubs. Note that Internal cap, really does tie up GM's hands alot of the time.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by janisahockeynut

[Dats hockey]

No sign motte

[BigTramFan]

On 4/13/2021 at 5:35 AM, janisahockeynut said:

Yes, Nick Paul is a RFA, and Ottawa may not want to trade him, but will he fit into their internal cap? Either way, Benning needs to sneakedly, be interviewed in the press to say he will be actively looking to Free Agency to get a center. He can use the Beagle injury as a reason, but it will send a message to the UFA agents not to have their clkients re-sign with their original clubs. Note that Internal cap, really does tie up GM's hands alot of the time.

 

Hi Jan. I'm not sure where you are seeing this info about Paul but capfriendly has Nick Paul signed through next season with OTT at 1.35m and only after next season he will be a UFA, not RFA. I'm pretty sure OTT are happy to keep him at that cap hit for next season, and unless we trade for him, we won't be able to make a free agency offer until 2022-23 season. I'm not sure Paul has the offense required to be a 3C, but he would be an ideal 4C at that cap hit.

 

Laughton has resigned with PHI, so only really Lowry and Wennberg available as 2021-22 UFAs from your list now. Both of those guys probably feeling they are with "contender" teams right now, so that may factor into their desire to resign rather than move to VAN. We would have to pay more than WPG and FLA to get one of these guys.

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Hi Jan. I'm not sure where you are seeing this info about Paul but capfriendly has Nick Paul signed through next season with OTT at 1.35m and only after next season he will be a UFA, not RFA. I'm pretty sure OTT are happy to keep him at that cap hit for next season, and unless we trade for him, we won't be able to make a free agency offer until 2022-23 season. I'm not sure Paul has the offense required to be a 3C, but he would be an ideal 4C at that cap hit.

 

Laughton has resigned with PHI, so only really Lowry and Wennberg available as 2021-22 UFAs from your list now. Both of those guys probably feeling they are with "contender" teams right now, so that may factor into their desire to resign rather than move to VAN. We would have to pay more than WPG and FLA to get one of these guys.

You Sir, are absolutely correct, and I am in error! Thank you for pointing out my "MISTAKE" lol........seriously Thanks!

I did actually know he was still under contract, but somehow, in my small mind, I translated it into RFA and this year.......

I did notice after posting that Laughton had re-signed......he must like Phili, he could have got more

 

If I had a choice of remaining players, I would go after them in this order

 

Lowry, Paul, and then Wenneberg, but would gladly take any of them as a 3rd line center.............

 

From the way Lowry is being talked about, he could be getting a nice raise........maybe 4.0 to 4.25 Million X 5 years.......I would pay that!