[Proposal] Proposal How to fix our defense

[Scottydzik]

Nate Schmidt 30 percent retained Jake virtanen Kole Lind 2021 4th round pick to Boston for Jake debrusk Jeremy lauzon 2021 2nd pick 

 

2021 3rd olli juolevi to Colorado for Ryan graves 

 

signing 

Adam Larsson 5x6.2 million 

 

Defense 

Hughes Larsson

Graves lauzon 

rathbone Myers 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Scottydzik

[Phil_314]

24 minutes ago, Scottydzik said:

Nate Schmidt 30 percent retained Jake virtanen Kole Lind 2021 4th round pick to Boston for Jake debrusk Jeremy lauzon 2021 2nd pick 

Virtanen and DeBrusk have to be close-ish in value (of course our Jake is probably lesser given the legal issues), so I'm guessing that the 4th is the sweetener?  (DeBrusk underachieved in Boston this year so his value has to be at a low right now).  With that said, I think we're giving up too much (Schmidt with 30% retention which brings him down to $4 million approx. should increase his value, and he still did better than Lauzon last season, so if Boston wants to improve by getting Schmidt I'm not sure why we need to retain AND add Kole Lind.  You may be of the camp that Schmidt is done since he had an off year or that the rumors are true about him wanting out, but IDK if we need to have both the retention and the add to get Lauzon and a 2nd -- I think at $4 mil he can get that alone, since he still outproduced Lauzon and played more minutes).  I think it's close but I probably wouldn't want to do it.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Phil_314

[Scottydzik]

8 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Virtanen and DeBrusk have to be close-ish in value (of course our Jake is probably lesser given the legal issues), so I'm guessing that the 4th is the sweetener?  (DeBrusk underachieved in Boston this year so his value has to be at a low right now).  With that said, I think we're giving up too much (Schmidt with 30% retention which brings him down to $4 million approx. should increase his value, and he still did better than Lauzon last season, so if Boston wants to improve by getting Schmidt I'm not sure why we need to retain AND add Kole Lind.  You may be of the camp that Schmidt is done since he had an off year or that the rumors are true about him wanting out, but IDK if we need to have both the retention and the add to get Lauzon and a 2nd -- I think at $4 mil he can get that alone, since he still outproduced Lauzon and played more minutes).  I think it's close but I probably wouldn't want to do it.  

Ya I think lauzon played really well I just don’t think they even do it unless with retain some on Schmidt 

[Bertuzzipunch]

6.2 errr no thanks

[Scottydzik]

26 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

6.2 errr no thanks

It’s gonns be another case of Myers slight overpay during free agency but you get a steady rock for Hughes for next 3 or 4 years 

[Bertuzzipunch]

1 minute ago, Scottydzik said:

It’s gonns be another case of Myers slight overpay during free agency but you get a steady rock for Hughes for next 3 or 4 years 

No thanks

[YEGCanuck]

$6.2m is a gross over-payment for Larsson. And yes I understand you would have to entice to leave the Oil, but he is simply not worth it.

[King Heffy]

No retaining on a long term deal.  Schmidt had a rough year but he doesn't have negative value.  Let's not repeat the mistakes of the idiot who left a huge mess for Benning to clean up.

[BigTramFan]

If Schmidt truly does want to leave, this is what I would try and do with this coming off season:

[Scottydzik]

55 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

If Schmidt truly does want to leave, this is what I would try and do with this coming off season:

The defense gets eaten up that was a problem we had no tough defensive d who are hard play against 

[KariyaSakicAnderson]

I like Larsson, he would be an excellent fit on this team to play along side Quinn.   I think he would sign here for close to his current contract 5 yrs at around 4 to 4.25 per.

Jim wants a big Dman that can hit, Hakanpaa is on his radar I'm sure, he'd be probably around 1.1 to 1.4 per on a 2 or 3 yr deal

 

Schmidt at 30% retention, there will be a fair amount of teams in on him especially after the expansion draft.  The Canucks could very likely get a 2nd round pick plus some mid level prospect.  Schmidt played quite well this past year especially when considering all that transpired.  New team, no practice for the 1st month or so, no time to really learn the system and gel with teammates, poor d deployment and d system front to back.

[mll]

2 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

If Schmidt truly does want to leave, this is what I would try and do with this coming off season:

 

Hamilton played with Slavin who is as solid as they come defensively.  Not sure going from him to Hughes would work.

 

Who is the next player Boston is set to lose in expansion.  A 3rd round pick might not be worth it for them.

 

There is noise that Schmidt isn’t too pleased in Vancouver with himself and the team struggling.  Seattle hired Haskol who doesn’t strike as a win now coach but has experience with young players. Feels like Seattle is going to build rather than try and replicate Vegas.  Probably not the best fit for Schmidt either if he wants to play on a win now team.

 

Could see Seattle picking players to flip them further but teams can retain only on 3 players.  Schmidt at 6M might not be worth much at full cap and retaining for 4 years might not necessarily be worth it either.

 

Dhaliwal just reported that Beagle will be ready for training camp.  

 

There is a bonus overage of ~649K that will also count against the cap (number from Puckepedia).

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by mll

[mll]

6 minutes ago, KariyaSakicAnderson said:

I like Larsson, he would be an excellent fit on this team to play along side Quinn.   I think he would sign here for close to his current contract 5 yrs at around 4 to 4.25 per.

Jim wants a big Dman that can hit, Hakanpaa is on his radar I'm sure, he'd be probably around 1.1 to 1.4 per on a 2 or 3 yr deal

 

Schmidt at 30% retention, there will be a fair amount of teams in on him especially after the expansion draft.  The Canucks could very likely get a 2nd round pick plus some mid level prospect.  Schmidt played quite well this past year especially when considering all that transpired.  New team, no practice for the 1st month or so, no time to really learn the system and gel with teammates, poor d deployment and d system front to back.

 

~1.8M against the cap for 4 more years for only a 2nd round pick.  Is it really worth it over clearing his full cap for a lesser pick.

 

Larsson is closing in on a deal with Edmonton.  Been reported for weeks but isn’t done yet.  Not sure 4-4.5 would be sufficient for him to look elsewhere.

[BigTramFan]

17 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Hamilton played with Slavin who is as solid as they come defensively.  Not sure going from him to Hughes would work.

 

Who is the next player Boston is set to lose in expansion.  A 3rd round pick might not be worth it for them.

 

There is noise that Schmidt isn’t too pleased in Vancouver with himself and the team struggling.  Seattle hired Haskol who doesn’t strike as a win now coach but has experience with young players. Feels like Seattle is going to build rather than try and replicate Vegas.  Probably not the best fit for Schmidt either if he wants to play on a win now team.

 

Could see Seattle picking players to flip them further but teams can retain only on 3 players.  Schmidt at 6M might not be worth much at full cap and retaining for 4 years might not necessarily be worth it either.

 

Dhaliwal just reported that Beagle will be ready for training camp.  

 

There is a bonus overage of ~649K that will also count against the cap (number from Puckepedia).

 

Well that would just be for next season.

After which I would likely be trading Hughes for a kings ransom, if he hasn’t shown significant improvement in his defense, and signing Lindholm to be our 1LD alongside Hamilton.

 

Also I would be looking to upgrade Juolevi unless we see big improvements next season.
 

This thread was entitled “fixing the defense”!

[KariyaSakicAnderson]

20 minutes ago, mll said:

 

~1.8M against the cap for 4 more years for only a 2nd round pick.  Is it really worth it over clearing his full cap for a lesser pick.

 

Larsson is closing in on a deal with Edmonton.  Been reported for weeks but isn’t done yet.  Not sure 4-4.5 would be sufficient for him to look elsewhere.

I personally think that the Canucks could get a 2nd round pick for Schmidt after the expansion with no retention.  I just didn't want to be overzealous and say that a team would offer a 1st or more.

 

Those Larsson updates have been around for a while, his agent did mention a day or two ago that they are close, still working on the term but that also his client wants to think about everything.  Never know what that "think about everything" means. 

 

If he was available I think Vancouver would be a top choice for him.  Could he get more money else where? sure, not sure how much or from which team but one thing about Swedes that I have noticed is that they would take a bit less money to play in place they and their family would prefer.  I do think a 5 year term at around his current salary wouldn't be too far off for him.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by KariyaSakicAnderson

[Crabcakes]

I don't see adding a big salary at all.  Hughes is going to have a big number.  Edler is probably getting re-signed but at $2M or less so they wash.

 

RHD are so hard to find.  Does going with Schmidt, Hamonic and Myers sound like such a bad idea?

 

So the 6th piece is the question.  The 2nd pair LHD (Edler 3rd pair....14 mins...PK).  Is it Rathbone?  As conservative as Benning seems to be I would expect a mid level LHD defense first player similar to Hamonic.  Sorry, I don't have a name.  This player would partner with Schmidt so that he could play more aggressively on offense and have his back covered.

 

It's not aggressive but it is do-able.

 

Hughes Hamonic

XXXXX Schmidt

Edler Myers

Rathbone

 

As for Rathbone's future, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't a regular by the end of the season and Edler is the No 7

 

 

 

 

[mll]

17 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Well that would just be for next season.

After which I would likely be trading Hughes for a kings ransom, if he hasn’t shown significant improvement in his defense, and signing Lindholm to be our 1LD alongside Hamilton.

 

Also I would be looking to upgrade Juolevi unless we see big improvements next season.
 

This thread was entitled “fixing the defense”!

Might not be a king’s ransom if he is a defensive liability and the Canucks look to move him when he is still so young and produces at such a high rate.  Suggest they don’t think they can win with him.

 

Can’t see them trading Hughes anyway.  

[mll]

14 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I don't see adding a big salary at all.  Hughes is going to have a big number.  Edler is probably getting re-signed but at $2M or less so they wash.

 

RHD are so hard to find.  Does going with Schmidt, Hamonic and Myers sound like such a bad idea?

 

So the 6th piece is the question.  The 2nd pair LHD (Edler 3rd pair....14 mins...PK).  Is it Rathbone?  As conservative as Benning seems to be I would expect a mid level LHD defense first player similar to Hamonic.  Sorry, I don't have a name.  This player would partner with Schmidt so that he could play more aggressively on offense and have his back covered.

 

It's not aggressive but it is do-able.

 

Hughes Hamonic

XXXXX Schmidt

Edler Myers

Rathbone

 

As for Rathbone's future, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't a regular by the end of the season and Edler is the No 7

 

 

 

 

 

Depends how much they think this season and the one before was a fluke.  They were pretty much ranked last across the board in expected goals against this season by the main models and it’s not like they were much better the season before.  

 

Baumgartner is returning so it doesn’t feel like they think it’s systems.

 

There’s apparently an understanding that Vancouver will try and move Schmidt as it hasn’t quite worked out for both sides.  

 

[Crabcakes]

3 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Depends how much they think this season and the one before was a fluke.  They were pretty much ranked last across the board in expected goals against this season by the main models and it’s not like they were much better the season before.  

 

Baumgartner is returning so it doesn’t feel like they think it’s systems.

 

There’s apparently an understanding that Vancouver will try and move Schmidt as it hasn’t quite worked out for both sides.  

 

This is Friedge going on partial information.  It sounds to me like Schmidt said something right after the season ended off the record with the caveat that he hadn't had his exit interview yet and who wasn't disappointed then?  I sure was but after having reflected for a while, I thought that the season was one where everything went wrong a couple of times.  Too many changes followed by not enough practice time and a heavy schedule to start.  Once they got over that and started playing decently, Petey was injured and then Covid slammed them which forced a ridiculous schedule to finish.  It's not fair to take anybody's performance seriously last season 

 

I think the best idea is to make Schmidt happy.  If they can't then they'll be forced to pay a premium to replace him with a similar quality player.  They'd be totally over a barrel.  That deal would make the Canucks a weaker team.  And the fallout on the cap would not be pretty.

[mll]

56 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

This is Friedge going on partial information.  It sounds to me like Schmidt said something right after the season ended off the record with the caveat that he hadn't had his exit interview yet and who wasn't disappointed then?  I sure was but after having reflected for a while, I thought that the season was one where everything went wrong a couple of times.  Too many changes followed by not enough practice time and a heavy schedule to start.  Once they got over that and started playing decently, Petey was injured and then Covid slammed them which forced a ridiculous schedule to finish.  It's not fair to take anybody's performance seriously last season 

 

I think the best idea is to make Schmidt happy.  If they can't then they'll be forced to pay a premium to replace him with a similar quality player.  They'd be totally over a barrel.  That deal would make the Canucks a weaker team.  And the fallout on the cap would not be pretty.

 

Fair enough.  Even Drance says he doesn't think there was something as dramatic as a trade request.

 

Benning said that their competitive window will truly open up in 2 years.  Schmidt is 30 and his years are ticking away.  I could understand if he prefers playing on a team that is already a legit contender.

 

How to make Schmidt happy also.  In Vegas he was playing with McNabb.  Can they find a similar player that is not going to be too old once the Canucks window really opens up. 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by mll