[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[coryberg]

7 hours ago, dougieL said:

Drance just said...

 

6 hours ago, dougieL said:

The Athletic has...

[dougieL]

22 minutes ago, coryberg said:

 

Dismissing something based solely on who stated it is actually incredibly ignorant.

[ShawnAntoski]

9 hours ago, dougieL said:

 

 

So it is True, that the Sedins did vouch for LE 2.0, when JB was making the deal.  World class scouting that Delorme can be proud off.

 

I wonder if Sekeres will be willing to revisit this interview with Daniel ?  

Edited January 10, 2023 by ShawnAntoski

[dougieL]

27 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

So it is True, that the Sedins did vouch for LE 2.0, when JB was making the deal.  World class scouting that Delorme can be proud off.

 

I wonder if Sekeres will be willing to revisit this interview with Daniel ?  

I do really wonder if anyone would have the guts to ask the Sedins if OEL has met their expectations. 

[dougieL]

The thing that interview with Daniel shows is that they were aware of OELs poor play in the years prior to the trade. So they just assumed that he'd magically turn things around at age 29 and be worth the contract for the next 6 years ...that kind of defies logic. And Daniel says OEL took full responsibility for his down form the couple of years...as if that is somehow supposed to be any indication that he will suddenly recover his 2016 form? Just weird stuff.

[ShawnAntoski]

2 minutes ago, dougieL said:

The thing that interview with Daniel shows is that they were aware of OELs poor play in the years prior to the trade. So they just assumed that he'd magically turn things around at age 29 and be worth the contract for the next 6 years ...that kind of defies logic. And Daniel says OEL took full responsibility for his down form the couple of years...as if that is somehow supposed to be any indication that he will suddenly recover his 2016 form? Just weird stuff.

When I first heard of the rumor, I did some digging about why Arizona, was so desperate to trade him - and what was obvious to the naysayers of the trade had NOW been proven.  Imo, he is just an extension of LE and both had something to do with the Sedins - smh.  Read the replies from two years ago...

[ShawnAntoski]

28 minutes ago, dougieL said:

I do really wonder if anyone would have the guts to ask the Sedins if OEL has met their expectations. 

Sedins are untouchable in Vancouver and criticizing them, means you are not a fan.  Anyways, it won't happen unless job security for the reporter, is not important...

Edited January 10, 2023 by ShawnAntoski

[dougieL]

16 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Sedins are untouchable in Vancouver and criticizing them, means you are not a fan.  Anyways, it won't happen unless job security for the reporter, is not important...

Yep.

[ShawnAntoski]

3 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Yep.

Great find and good on you for posting the tweet...

[FaninMex]

11 hours ago, dougieL said:

Drance just said that OEL and Myers are playing basically at replacement level. At least Myers comes off the books soon. OEL is not just a problem for our long term outlook, he's a problem right now.

Do you really brag about listening to Drance? HAHHA keep up the good work. HAHAHAH

[jyu]

10 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Now the issue with the start of the season was with the amount of fresh faces on the team, they didnt have an opportunity to work on the new systems and build chemistry/comfortability with the systems and new players. If you look back (not that I expect you to lol) Vancouver started to turn the page after game 13. They began practicing finally but then the Pettersson injury 13 games later really hurt us and to top it off COVID shortly after sealed our fate for sure.

As for Montreal, they really werent that good of a team, Vancouver barely missed the playoffs that season despite all the adversity they battled. Montreal barely made it in and had “The Price is Right”. They battled and won games by committee, meanwhile Price shut the door. Thats not on JB and to fire someone over that season alone for Vancouver and all that they went through, would be a bit of a black mark against the organization and I think people would hesitate to come here if its that cutthroat. If you really think of it, how would it even be remotely fair to JB to get canned 5 years into the sh*t show he walked into? No prospects, aged and depleted roster with little to no value and made the playoffs twice despite all he had to deal with in 5 years. Thats pretty impressive to be fair to JBs credit. He also had a team that won a play-in series, smoked the defending champs and then took VGK to 7. 1 game from the WCF. Anyhoo, lets hope that this management group gets their sh*t together quick, because as much as everyone hates JB, this could get a lot uglier a lot quicker.

Yes, I'm convinced that they had a tough season and various reasons played into it as you mentioned. I disagree that they ever turned it around whether it was game 13 or 45 -- although there were stretched of games where they did play better.

 

I'm a believer in incremental changes, upgrading the roster gradually but surely progressing towards contention. 

 

And in that sense, I look at JB's tenure with the Canucks in two parts: pre-bubble and post.

 

I give JB a lot of credit for his work leading up to 2020. He did exactly what he said he would do: bring in foundational players so that we don't throw the young players into difficult situations. Yes, he had to overpay for some players to do so, but the guys that he brought in (Beagle, Sutter, Ryan Miller, etc) along with the existing guys that he kept (Edler, Marky, Tanev, etc) provided leadership qualities and mentored the younger guys. Moreover, they were the ones that handled the tough minutes and sacrificed their bodies in doing so. And that allowed development of guys like Petey and Hughes in a better environment and led us to that run in 2020. I also like JT Miller acquisition as well as Toffoli. I think those were all great moves and provided the missing pieces.

 

But then, he turned over some of the most important personnel in 2020 without even doing his best to keep them. When any organization, let alone a professional sports team, turns over that many key personnel, you can't be expecting them to gel immediately and produce. The fact that he was doing that amidst COVID, showed that he had lost his own direction. Or he got overzealous by his own success and he "ran out of time".

 

I wonder how our 2021 season would have went if we had kept Tanev and Marky. They were key leadership players in my opinion. Since they and Edler left, no one has stepped into those roles. Miller unfortunately is not the leadership player in the same vein as Edler, Tanev, and Marky. In fact, my wild conjecture is that having those three players would have kept Miller playing his role better as he wouldn't be leaned upon for leadership.

 

Anyhow, back to Tanev and Marky. Tanev could have easily been kept as his cap was taken over by Schmidt, who actually cost 1.5 mil more than what Tanev signed for.

 

We let Marky walk and brought in Holtby to give Demko a bit more time to develop his game. It failed spectacularly as we all know, well I guess Demko developed but Holtby was a giant failure. I understand the rationale for letting Marky walk with the expansion draft on the horizon. But could we have re-signed Marky and defer the decision somehow? The worst case was that Seattle would pick whoever we exposed, a medium case was we give Seattle a draft pick (2nd or lower) in return for not picking Marky/Demko, and a best case would have been to find a trade partner for Marky/Demko at a decent price like Schneider for 1st (Horvat). As it happened, there was one case worse than I envisioned: Marky signing with the Flames.

 

Then 2021, OEL trade. Well, I don't mind the players we got, I like OEL and Garland. But giving up a 1st, already determined as 9th overall, for 42 million dollar cap dump (Arizona treated OEL as a cap dump) who had designated Vancouver and Boston as the only destinations... We gave up 9th overall and a 2nd rounder to dump 12 million dollars but Arizona gave up Garland to dump a 42 million dollar contract with trade restrictions. 

 

I will only briefly mention other decisions that I hated since 2020.

- Edler. A franchise leader in games played for defencemen. A guy who re-invented his game in the middle of his career and became a pretty solid defensive player, who blocked shots and ate up pucks and took hits.

- Stecher. Small but feisty and playing hard every game. A local kid. There was some sort of camaraderie building amongst the young players like in the days of the Sedins and he was one of them.  

- Toffoli. The victim of the cap crunch. I understand the rationale but I disliked letting him walk. A good player who had few more seasons to give.

 

The leadership? gone. The chemistry? gone. Secondary scoring? gone. Brought in bunch of new guys who were all playing different styles and different systems and were aging? Check, check, and check.

 

You really have to look at JB's tenure in two parts. The first part, I liked quite a bit. Incremental upgrades. Some failed but a lot of the moves worked out too. The second part, he was terrible.

 

A proactive and well run organization with a president residing over the GM would have seen JB fired after that bubble season. At the very least, he would have been stopped from making overzealous decisions. 

 

Unfortunately, JB was the president and the GM and no one but the owner resided over him, who probably knows very little about hockey operations. And that's how we got here.

 

[Diamonds]

19 hours ago, dougieL said:

The Athletic has OEL at -7.3m surplus value 

Any analysis that starts to rate players as negative money value I have to severely question. In a league where guys like Brad Hunt and Riley Stillman are NHL players (like it or not they play games consistently in the NHL on multiple teams) there is no way in which OEL is worth negative money. Stillman and Hunt are not worth 8M (league minimum plus 7.3M) more than OEL. Obviously OEL is not playing like a stud 1D but that doesn't mean he's not an NHL player.

 

If the scale is such that a value of 0 means they are playing at their contract then the scale is purposely built to skew negative. There are plenty of players in the NHL not worth their contracts where teams would be better off with the cap space instead but no examples where players are exceeding contracts by 10M (except for maybe 3rd year ELC McDavid).

[dougieL]

3 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Any analysis that starts to rate players as negative money value I have to severely question. In a league where guys like Brad Hunt and Riley Stillman are NHL players (like it or not they play games consistently in the NHL on multiple teams) there is no way in which OEL is worth negative money. Stillman and Hunt are not worth 8M (league minimum plus 7.3M) more than OEL. Obviously OEL is not playing like a stud 1D but that doesn't mean he's not an NHL player.

 

If the scale is such that a value of 0 means they are playing at their contract then the scale is purposely built to skew negative. There are plenty of players in the NHL not worth their contracts where teams would be better off with the cap space instead but no examples where players are exceeding contracts by 10M (except for maybe 3rd year ELC McDavid).

Think about it in terms of assets we'd have to attach in order for a team to take OEL off our hands.

 

[dougieL]

Bik and Sat on the postgame show just mentioned that today wasn't the first time OEL actively got out of the way of a shot that ended up in his net. 

[dougieL]

16 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

So it is True, that the Sedins did vouch for LE 2.0, when JB was making the deal.  World class scouting that Delorme can be proud off.

 

I wonder if Sekeres will be willing to revisit this interview with Daniel ?  

It goes farther than just this. On an interview with 650, Benning said that ARZ came back and asked for an additional second round pick. It was the Sedins, citing OELs high value, who ultimately convinced Benning to add that pick to complete the trade.

 

I would have loved to have heard how that conversation went. The sheer stupidity of it might be good comic relief for what is happening right now to the team.

 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Bik and Sat on the postgame show just mentioned that today wasn't the first time OEL actively got out of the way of a shot that ended up in his net. 

When this trade happened my thoughts about Benning

[dougieL]

29 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Bik and Sat on the postgame show just mentioned that today wasn't the first time OEL actively got out of the way of a shot that ended up in his net. 

I guess Daniel neglected to mention OELs propensity for dodging shots when pumping OELs tires.

 

[ShawnAntoski]

2 hours ago, dougieL said:

It goes farther than just this. On an interview with 650, Benning said that ARZ came back and asked for an additional second round pick. It was the Sedins, citing OELs high value, who ultimately convinced Benning to add that pick to complete the trade.

 

I would have loved to have heard how that conversation went. The sheer stupidity of it might be good comic relief for what is happening right now to the team.

 

The Sedins deserved the HOF but the team and fanbsed had also given them A LOT and conitnues to give them more: $ and a lifetime hero status. Anyways, I still don't think they should be the one, to help set the new culture....

 

I wonder, if that interview can be located somewhere, in the interweb ?

Edited January 11, 2023 by ShawnAntoski

[DownUndaCanuck]

4 hours ago, dougieL said:

Bik and Sat on the postgame show just mentioned that today wasn't the first time OEL actively got out of the way of a shot that ended up in his net. 

Even now you see Edler lay out to blocm shots.

 

Think we're going down with the OEL ship sadly, hopefully he retires before his contract expires but if he's out there avoiding shots he could go on forever

[dougieL]

38 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Even now you see Edler lay out to blocm shots.

 

Think we're going down with the OEL ship sadly, hopefully he retires before his contract expires but if he's out there avoiding shots he could go on forever

In my opinion, OEL is a huge reason for the hopelessness surrounding this team. There is just so little chance that a team can be successful when a player on the roster is underperforming his contact by that much. And you'd figure he'd at least eat a few shots to try to earn a bit of that contract. Nope. ACTIVELY gets out of the way of shots.