2022 NHL Entry Draft

[HighOnHockey]

2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Hopefully right into our laps, he is no Jordan Schroeder. He has elite skills, skating, and IQ, but I don't see him making it out of the top 10. 

You don't think people thought the same sort of things about Schroeder his draft year? His draft year stats look more impressive than Savoie's, even taking into account Schroeder's late birthday. Schroeder played under-age at both U18s and U20s (that's practically under-age and a half considering the late birthday), Savoie did not do either.

 

I dunno, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be a superstar, but I've been expressing concerns about Savoie since before it was cool.

Edited June 23, 2022 by HighOnHockey

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

You don't think people thought the same sort of things about Schroeder his draft year? His draft year stats look more impressie than Savoie's, even taking into account Schroeder's late birthday. Schroeder played under-age at both U18s and U20s (that's practically under-age and a half considering the late birthday), Savoie did not do either.

 

I dunno, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be a superstar, but I've been expressing concerns about Savoie since before it was cool.

Schroeder also took a major steps back in both years after being drafted some how, went from 45 pts in 35 games in NCAA (1.28pts/game) to 28 pts in 37 games in NCAA (0.76 pts/game) + 9 pts in 11 AHL games (0.82 pts/game) to 28 pts in 61 AHL games (0.46 pts/game). Savoie actually has a decent defensive game for his size due to smarts and skating. 

[HighOnHockey]

12 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Schroeder also took a major steps back in both years after being drafted some how, went from 45 pts in 35 games in NCAA (1.28pts/game) to 28 pts in 37 games in NCAA (0.76 pts/game) + 9 pts in 11 AHL games (0.82 pts/game) to 28 pts in 61 AHL games (0.46 pts/game). Savoie actually has a decent defensive game for his size due to smarts and skating. 

I don't see your point at all. We can't compare them based on what they did after their draft years because Savoie isn't there yet. Retrospect is 20/20 they say, and all we knew about Schroeder at the time of his draft was what he had done prior to that time, and at the time many people were very excited about Schroeder's upside. The only real knock seemed to be on his size, which was considered more of a big deal back then than it is now. Here's an example of one media scouting report,

 

"Although most will dwell on his size, Schroeder more than makes up for this deficiency with his outstanding hockey sense and intelligence, poise, pucks skills and blazing speed. He is the ultimate team player, has excellent creativity and is not intimidated by the physical play despite his size. Actually, as noted below in scouting combine notes, he is very stocky and has a rock solid core. He is described as more of a playmaker, but the shot he exhibited at the WJC was just as lethal as his passing."

 

Sounds pretty similar to Savoie. I agree with you about his defensive play, but I've long had significant concerns about his consistency and commitment to being responsible with the puck.

[Bure_Pavel]

23 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I don't see your point at all. We can't compare them based on what they did after their draft years because Savoie isn't there yet. Retrospect is 20/20 they say, and all we knew about Schroeder at the time of his draft was what he had done prior to that time, and at the time many people were very excited about Schroeder's upside. The only real knock seemed to be on his size, which was considered more of a big deal back then than it is now. Here's an example of one media scouting report,

 

"Although most will dwell on his size, Schroeder more than makes up for this deficiency with his outstanding hockey sense and intelligence, poise, pucks skills and blazing speed. He is the ultimate team player, has excellent creativity and is not intimidated by the physical play despite his size. Actually, as noted below in scouting combine notes, he is very stocky and has a rock solid core. He is described as more of a playmaker, but the shot he exhibited at the WJC was just as lethal as his passing."

 

Sounds pretty similar to Savoie. I agree with you about his defensive play, but I've long had significant concerns about his consistency and commitment to being responsible with the puck.

My main point was we shouldn't also expect Savoie to take significant steps backwards if developed properly. He will continue to develop nicely on a powerhouse Winnipeg Ice team. To each their own though, the only major rating that I have seen not have him in the top 10 is Button I believe. He had a good year 7th in league scoring, 3rd in +/-, over 50% in faceoffs, a shooting percentage of 16.7%, and his team finished #1 in the WHL reagular season.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[Nucker 67]

Thinking back to the 2019 Draft, DET had the #6 and took Seider, and I recall that it felt too high to take the Dman, especially with Cozens, Zegras, Podkolzin, Caufield and Soderstrom still available. But boy has that pick turned out, Seider just winning the Calder. Taking a Dman (the right Dman) high is important. Canucks need that kind of quality in their D core. Unless Gauthier falls or Kasper is there at #15, I think the Canucks should take a D - Korchinski, Mintyukov, Bichsel

[Smashian Kassian]

44 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Thinking back to the 2019 Draft, DET had the #6 and took Seider, and I recall that it felt too high to take the Dman, especially with Cozens, Zegras, Podkolzin, Caufield and Soderstrom still available. But boy has that pick turned out, Seider just winning the Calder. Taking a Dman (the right Dman) high is important. Canucks need that kind of quality in their D core. Unless Gauthier falls or Kasper is there at #15, I think the Canucks should take a D - Korchinski, Mintyukov, Bichsel

Has to be the right D, can't be reaching for a D & leave a much better player on the board.

 

Mintyukov for sure, the others I'm less sure about. Bichsel seems like a limited upside guy, doesn't seem to have the hands of a high end defenseman, and Korchinski's been mentioned.

 

 

[Smashian Kassian]

@HighOnHockey how do you feel about Ostlund?

 

[Nucker 67]

59 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Has to be the right D, can't be reaching for a D & leave a much better player on the board.

 

Mintyukov for sure, the others I'm less sure about. Bichsel seems like a limited upside guy, doesn't seem to have the hands of a high end defenseman, and Korchinski's been mentioned.

 

 

They're still going to need LD, a player who could jump into the lineup to eventually replace OEL

[EP Phone Home]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Thinking back to the 2019 Draft, DET had the #6 and took Seider, and I recall that it felt too high to take the Dman, especially with Cozens, Zegras, Podkolzin, Caufield and Soderstrom still available. But boy has that pick turned out, Seider just winning the Calder. Taking a Dman (the right Dman) high is important. Canucks need that kind of quality in their D core. Unless Gauthier falls or Kasper is there at #15, I think the Canucks should take a D - Korchinski, Mintyukov, Bichsel

I was thinking about this just the other day when he won the Calder. I believe scouts ranked him in the low 20s which was why many people thought it was a shock that the Red Wings picked him. But this is Stevie Y who built the Tampa team so he knew the kind of player Seider is and will become. 

[NucknAsia]

Really feel like if we can't move up into the top ten it may make sense to move down and gather more picks. 

 

I'm thinking trade with AZ

 

Hoglander, Rathbone, #15, and our 3rd

 

for 

#27, #34, #36

 

Then load up on RD 

Sam Rinzel

Noah Warren

Artem Barabosha

[R3aL]

3 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

@HighOnHockey how do you feel about Ostlund?

 

He shared his opinion when I asked a few pages back maybe if u can search his posts you’ll find it quick 

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

I'm not sold on Savoie.  Reading about scouts' concerns about his game translating to the NHL.  Button dropped Savoie to late in round one.  I see a Jordan Schroeder fall for Savoie.

Can you please post these scouts concerns up.

I haven't read them. 

 

[Ilunga]

8 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Hopefully right into our laps, he is no Jordan Schroeder. He has elite skills, skating, and IQ, but I don't see him making it out of the top 10. 

This is what I see in the video I have watched.

 

@HighOnHockey 

What are your thoughts now on Savoie ?

[HighOnHockey]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

This is what I see in the video I have watched.

 

@HighOnHockey 

What are your thoughts now on Savoie ?

 

I've had him hovering around 10-12 most of the year now. Nothing new. I certainly don't dislike him, just not as high on him as most people are. I first saw him back at U17s when he was under-aged and was amazed by his skillset, but I remember he started on a line with Guenther and McTavish and they looked great against weaker teams but spent more time in their own zone than they ought have. Later in the tournament he was put on the second line with Cole Sillinger to cover for his mistakes. My overall impression was good though, I expected he was top 5 for this draft. His YOGs was pretty disappointing, but I gave him a bit of a flyer there as he had just weeks before been knocked out cold by an open-ice hit in WHL, and if not post-concussion he was hearing footsteps and seeing shadows to say the least. Still had some really exciting moments there too though. And it's been more of the same for me since then. Shows tons of potential, but he's inconsistent and makes a lot of mistakes trying to force offense. I'm sure he'll be a good player, but I expect his development curve will be a fair bit longer than other players in the same range.

 

I guess the thing for me is, there are so many undersized elite-skilled forwards at the top end of the draft, and I like a few of them better than Savoie. And you know they're not all going to go top ten, so a couple are gonna drop a bit. I prefer Cooley, Nazar and Lekkerimaki for sure. I've been kinda down on Kemell most of the year as well but have been coming around a bit late in the year, those two are very close in my books.

[Smashian Kassian]

2 hours ago, R3aL said:

He shared his opinion when I asked a few pages back maybe if u can search his posts you’ll find it quick 

 

Thanks! @HighOnHockey sorry for my laziness. 

[Gollumpus]

7 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

You don't think people thought the same sort of things about Schroeder his draft year? His draft year stats look more impressive than Savoie's, even taking into account Schroeder's late birthday. Schroeder played under-age at both U18s and U20s (that's practically under-age and a half considering the late birthday), Savoie did not do either.

 

I dunno, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be a superstar, but I've been expressing concerns about Savoie since before it was cool.

Can't say that I know a lot about Savoie.

 

A mental segue here, I recall back in the day, around when Gillis was having his first draft, and Hodgson had fallen to 10th from what might have been two or three positions higher (according to some pundits). There was a lot of talk about, "What is wrong with Hodgson that other teams passed on selecting him?" Granted, Stamkos and a very good crop of d-men crowding up the top five selections had something to do with it, but there was still a feeling among some that there was something wrong with Hodgson which other team's had noticed in their interviews. Why did Nashville select Wilson, or the Islanders choose Bailey? Did Columbus or Phoenix go with the BPA (at least on their lists)? Maybe.

 

I recall seeing/hearing similar comments when Schroeder was drafted the following year, as well as when Shinkaruk and McCann were drafted. The comments weren't necessarily that the guy was going to be a bust, but rather that there were red flags which suggested caution in selecting this guy.

 

So, getting to the point of this, if  Savoie does drop to Canucks, was it because the previous 14 guys taken were the BPA, or a guy who better fit the other teams' positional needs, or did they find Savoie lacking in some way which raised some red flags? Or is it merely because he's small?

 

                                                  regards,  G.

[Smashian Kassian]

 

On 6/21/2022 at 10:31 AM, R3aL said:

I haven’t watched them play much just the recent international play and their highlights and some tape with scouting reports to highlight points.

 

but my understanding for Ostlund is:

 

- great skater uses crossovers effectively to build speed 

- extremely gifted passer 

- very responsible defensively

- plays C properly and opens the ice for wingers

- high IQ 

- good at protecting puck / possession player 

- knows where to be on ice when doesn’t have puck 

 

cons:

 

- weight / strength 

- didn’t adjust to SHL speed right away needs more time

 

I didn’t take him for a flashy player in what I’ve read and seen outside of his recent int play. 
 

I feel like he’s playing a more valuable position C and his play, playmaking (passing especially) has boosted his two wingers production and it’s getting overlooked a little because of their finish.

 

but he’s ranked below both wingers by majority of public rankings so like you’ve said I’m missing info or just seeing things differently from the greater majority.

 

we will see I just get the feeling people are sleeping on this kid a little. 

 

On 6/21/2022 at 11:50 AM, HighOnHockey said:

Have you seen the highlights on Ostlund? I think it's Recrutes has a really fun one called the elusiveness of Noah Ostlund or something like that. Kid is shifty.

 

But the big question I think we're getting at here is playmaking with the puck vs. playmaking without the puck. Ostlund is generally always the one with the puck leading play into the offensive zone. Very few players in this draft better at making plays through the neutral zone. Lambert is the only one I can think of that I would take over Ostlund in that regard. But then once in the offensive zone, how much can be credited to Ostlund making high level plays with the puck and how much should be credited to Lekkerimaki and Ohgren making high level plays off the puck that allow Ostlund to make good plays to them. I tend to think that making good plays off the puck is more of a pro-level skill, whereas so many top junior players can make elite plays with the puck. Ostlund is almost certainly not going to be able to drive play and always carry the puck at the NHL level to the extent he does in junior.

 

The other question I'm always trying to ask myself with highly skilled, high event players like this in junior is what percentage of those high events is he clicking on. Guys that make a lot of high-end plays while almost never make a bad play (Wright, Cooley) are obvious top picks. But guys like Ostlund, Kemell, Lambert, Savoie, who make a lot of high-end plays, but also make a fair amount of mistakes while attempting those high-end plays, gives some cause for reservation. Because you're not going to get so many opportunities to dictate play in the NHL if you're making a lot of mistakes trying to do so.

 

 

 

 

Phenomenal skater. Zone entry machine. As HoH says its not going to be as easy in the NHL however.

 

I kind of get a Zegras feel, but I don't think he uses his teammates as effectively. He's always going 100mph, & it seems like he's trying to skate himself into space then make a play, rather than occasionally slowing it down & utilizing a teammate. He's also not a shooting threat. 

 

Someone on HF made the point he's probably gotta be a C rather than transitioning to Wing, since skating through the middle of the ice is his biggest strength. Which is a decent point, but I'm sure his speed could still be valuable as a Winger.

 

I question how his game will translate & if he'll be able to adjust to having less space to whiz around in. I have Ohgren & Lekkerimaki higher myself. I'm basing this off limited video though, curious what you guys think of that?

[Gawdzukes]

12 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The two biggest drops in consensus seem to be after Savoive at 7 (69) and Mateychuk at 17 (98). The question would be are there 25 valid individual scouting sources out there or are some mock draft build using others rankings which would increase consensus. Love seeing these lists though.

This was from when it was only 17 sites.

 

The following websites were used: The Athletic (Wheeler & Pronman), Bleacher Report, Elite Prospects, Sportsnet, MyNHLDraft, Tankathon, Smaht Scouting, Dobber Prospects, McKeen's, The Hockey Writers (Baracchini, Zator, & Forbes), NHL.com (Kimelman & Morreale), Recruit Scouting, and FC Hockey. TSN (Button & McKenzie), The Hockey News, and Recruit Scouting's mock draft, haven't been updated or released yet. I expect several of those will be updated in the coming week or two and I'll update the spreadsheet as they roll in.

 

I assume they're all quite respected and at the forefront.

[Guest]

Anybody been watching the Memorial Cup?  

 

I've been trying to notice any draft-elligible players but the one who's stood out the most to me has been Mavrik Bourque, Dallas Stars' draft pick that plays center.  Such a smart, skilled and patient player.  

[R3aL]

12 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Phenomenal skater. Zone entry machine. As HoH says its not going to be as easy in the NHL however.

 

I kind of get a Zegras feel, but I don't think he uses his teammates as effectively. He's always going 100mph, & it seems like he's trying to skate himself into space then make a play, rather than occasionally slowing it down & utilizing a teammate. He's also not a shooting threat. 

 

Someone on HF made the point he's probably gotta be a C rather than transitioning to Wing, since skating through the middle of the ice is his biggest strength. Which is a decent point, but I'm sure his speed could still be valuable as a Winger.

 

I question how his game will translate & if he'll be able to adjust to having less space to whiz around in. I have Ohgren & Lekkerimaki higher myself. I'm basing this off limited video though, curious what you guys think of that?

I had never seen the recrutes website before HoH referenced it there. 
 

they have ostlund at 4 and Smaht has him at 10.

 

those are the highest rankings I’ve seen for him. 
 

I don’t think he will be a Winger I think he’s going to be a C. And I think he’s going to take take some time to develop.

I think his biggest critics say:

 

- he looked overwhelmed in his appearance in SHL 

- his slight size / weight 

- he makes more mistakes than the top top end guys of drafts usually so (lottery pick plates top 2/3)

I think he makes mistakes because he is very young and is always pushing the pace.

 

pace and speed are key in nhl now. Look at Aves they fly.

 

also he’s like a dog on a bone he’s relentless. So you know even if his skill doesn’t translate to the NHL he has the Motor to be a bottom 6 player worst case scenario.

 

I really like the kid. I think with patience in his development in Sweden, in the weight room and maybe some time in ahl with some extra Swedish attention from say the sedins the kid could be something very special.

 

I’m visualizing success for this kid. I’ll be watching him closely post draft wherever he goes