[GDT/PGT - Preseason] Calgary @ Vancouver Monday, Sept. 27/21 7:00 PM Abbotsford Centre

[stawns]

1 hour ago, mordekai said:

Is kinda ridiculous for people to compare a smooth skating playmaking defender vs a 2-way player and say the pmd is way ahead just because rathbone looks fancy with the puck

 

Pretty sure rathbone can’t knock down tkachuk like oj did last year without having any forward momentum 

I'd say OJ is a superior puck mover to Rathbone.  JR might be able to skate the puck out, but he can't out skate a good pass and OJ is an excellent passer.  He's calm and cool with the puck and I've yet to see a bad giveaway from him in two games.

 

He might not skate like JR, but he's solid everywhere else

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I like that we're all just assuming Hughes is going to be signed and in the lineup by the time the regular season starts.

I honestly think JR might make QH expendable at some point

[Pure961089]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Of course Juolevi's injury has held him back, to the point where he's been arguably overtaken by other players. The problem is that this narrative about Rathbone being underappreciated is a major exaggeration. Rathbone is good, and his performance in camp has arguably helped his case more so than Juolevi. That being said, Juolevi provides something that Rathbone doesn't - the PK. Juolevi made some pretty good defensive plays, including one where he saved a goal by breaking up the pass.
 

For all the things that Rathbone gets praised for, Juolevi is actually the one who is underappreciated. He has never been flashy, so it's hard to argue that he'd "look better" than Rathbone. But you have to look beyond the offense of Rathbone - does he play a complete game?

There are questions about Hughes' game and the fact that his defensive game needs work - is Rathbone at the stage that Hughes is? You have to ask these questions about how Rathbone will fit into the roster, in light of these supposed defensive deficiencies. It takes a lot of time for defensemen to come and play hard NHL minutes.

Juolevi was supposed to be the chosen one. He was compared to Lidstrom, drafted 5th overall, Rathbone was picked in the 4th round and went back to high school.  Clearly Rathbone is the underdog.   We live in 2 different realities. 

[stawns]

43 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

He doesn’t have to be if he’s paired with a physical defensive d.  Poolman would be the perfect fit.  Rathbone can run and gun with our forwards.  But it really doesn’t matter how good or how hard our defencemen try if the forwards don’t come back and help out.  Gaudette and Virtanen are no longer on tue team, they were terrible defensively.  Our bottom 6 has improved significantly. 

it's got nothing to do with being outmuscled.  I actually am not hugley concerned about that, he's a strong kid.  He's all over the place in his own end and completely over commits at the wrong times.  He's got great offensive instincts, but he's up against the best players in the world and to defend against that you need to know where you need to be and have the discipline to stay there.  He's got a lot to learn about defense and the NHL isn't the place to learn that.  

 

I'm hoping he spends a year with Cull and they work hard at shoring up that part of his game and he can come in and make Hughes expendable

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Juolevi was supposed to be the chosen one. He was compared to Lidstrom, drafted 5th overall, Rathbone was picked in the 4th round and went back to high school.  Clearly Rathbone is the underdog.   We live in 2 different realities. 

[greenbean30]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

it's got nothing to do with being outmuscled.  I actually am not hugley concerned about that, he's a strong kid.  He's all over the place in his own end and completely over commits at the wrong times.  He's got great offensive instincts, but he's up against the best players in the world and to defend against that you need to know where you need to be and have the discipline to stay there.  He's got a lot to learn about defense and the NHL isn't the place to learn that.  

 

I'm hoping he spends a year with Cull and they work hard at shoring up that part of his game and he can come in and make Hughes expendable

This is my feeling as well. He's got great skills, there's no doubting that and I think he will be a really good player but I don't think he is quite ready for the NHL yet. We don't have to rush our prospects, they can be down in the AHL getting lots of playing time and experience and get the call up when there is an injury.

I believe Juolevi is ready, he's good defensively and has good positioning. Sure he's not as flashy as Rathbone, but at this point I think he is the all around better defenseman.

 

You also have to look at team need. We need a defenseman who is more defense minded, who can PK and relied on in tough matchups. OJ is getting there, and Rathbone is just not that type of player right now.

[Locke Lamora]

Rathbone made some defensive improvements in his second game. As long as he shows further progression in this area in the remaining pre-season games, he’ll be on the team. Harman Dayal is talking about this very thing right now on 650. 

 

 

[FaninMex]

31 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I like that we're all just assuming Hughes is going to be signed and in the lineup by the time the regular season starts.

I just gave up caring and the whole circular convos about contract

[48MPHSlapShot]

13 minutes ago, stawns said:

I honestly think JR might make QH expendable at some point

That's a good problem to have, but that doesn't make it any less tricky to maneuver. Ideally I'd like to have a decent idea of what we have in Rathbone before we pull the trigger, but with the way the D is structured right now, and especially with the Hamonic situation, that does make it difficult to keep the more defensively sound Juolevi out of the lineup over Rathbone. Even I can admit that much.

 

If Quinn is still in Michigan to start the season we might very well see both guys in the lineup, but having two rookie blueliners in the lineup at the same time could be a recipe for disaster as well. Both guys are gonna go through some growing pains. 

 

It's a tricky situation, but if Rathbone can provide 75% (or more) of the offense Quinn can, while playing a better defensive game (I know there are some question marks about that aspect of his game right now, but I detect some of the "never say die" attitude that a guy like Stetcher had to his defensive game in Rathbone, which I don't see in Quinn), maybe Quinn does become expendable. Maybe Quinn is the piece we move to attain that elusive top pairing right D?

[Bure_Pavel]

34 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Juolevi was supposed to be the chosen one. He was compared to Lidstrom, drafted 5th overall, Rathbone was picked in the 4th round and went back to high school.  Clearly Rathbone is the underdog.   We live in 2 different realities. 

 

 

 

 

Bag skate to Juolevi:

[Gawdzukes]

58 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

We live in a multiverse of opinions.  I must be a Variant.  

Haha, you make good points. I really hope he is as good defensively as you speculate. I haven't seen much to be honest.

[Pure961089]

40 minutes ago, stawns said:

it's got nothing to do with being outmuscled.  I actually am not hugley concerned about that, he's a strong kid.  He's all over the place in his own end and completely over commits at the wrong times.  He's got great offensive instincts, but he's up against the best players in the world and to defend against that you need to know where you need to be and have the discipline to stay there.  He's got a lot to learn about defense and the NHL isn't the place to learn that.  

 

I'm hoping he spends a year with Cull and they work hard at shoring up that part of his game and he can come in and make Hughes expendable

These things you can teach and Rathbone is a fast learner.  Rathbone has skills you can’t easily teach. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

These things you can teach and Rathbone is a fast learner.  Rathbone has skills you can’t easily teach. 

No argument here, but the NHL isn't the place to develop those skills

 

[Pure961089]

I’m not politics at all but I was always puzzled why the term “alternative facts” made everyone crazy.  I was like yeah this is an actual thing that exists and of course was scoffed at.  I debunked their argument in 2 seconds.  
 

I showed them a picture of a glass half full/ half empty.  I asked which one is it?  Because whatever you choose the opposite opinion is the alternative fact.  It is possible to have 2 opposite facts.  
 

And then there’s confirmation bias, we’re all guilty of it. Even me.  

[greenbean30]

4 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

These things you can teach and Rathbone is a fast learner.  Rathbone has skills you can’t easily teach. 

They are things you can teach, and you should teach them down in the AHL where the game is slower and you have more time to learn.

Rath definitely has some natural skills and is very talented. He's just got some learning to do, which should be done down in the AHL with some games in the NHL. No need to rush him because he is showing flashes of being close. Let him get the experience.

[Pure961089]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

No argument here, but the NHL isn't the place to develop those skills

 

He’s a quick learner and he’s too skilled to send down.  His mobility is too valuable to Greens system. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

I’m not politics at all but I was always puzzled why the term “alternative facts” made everyone crazy.  I was like yeah this is an actual thing that exists and of course was scoffed at.  I debunked their argument in 2 seconds.  
 

I showed them a picture of a glass half full/ half empty.  I asked which one is it?  Because whatever you choose the opposite opinion is the alternative fact.  It is possible to have 2 opposite facts.  
 

And then there’s confirmation bias, we’re all guilty of it. Even me.  

Why do you want to rush him?! Isn't it better to put him in a position to succeed?

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Locke Lamora said:

Rathbone made some defensive improvements in his second game. As long as he shows further progression in this area in the remaining pre-season games, he’ll be on the team. Harman Dayal is talking about this very thing right now on 650. 

 

 

he didn't face much in the way of NHL competition in game 2. 

[stawns]

21 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

That's a good problem to have, but that doesn't make it any less tricky to maneuver. Ideally I'd like to have a decent idea of what we have in Rathbone before we pull the trigger, but with the way the D is structured right now, and especially with the Hamonic situation, that does make it difficult to keep the more defensively sound Juolevi out of the lineup over Rathbone. Even I can admit that much.

 

If Quinn is still in Michigan to start the season we might very well see both guys in the lineup, but having two rookie blueliners in the lineup at the same time could be a recipe for disaster as well. Both guys are gonna go through some growing pains. 

 

It's a tricky situation, but if Rathbone can provide 75% (or more) of the offense Quinn can, while playing a better defensive game (I know there are some question marks about that aspect of his game right now, but I detect some of the "never say die" attitude that a guy like Stetcher had to his defensive game in Rathbone, which I don't see in Quinn), maybe Quinn does become expendable. Maybe Quinn is the piece we move to attain that elusive top pairing right D?

100% agree.  Let him spend the year in the AHL as the #1 guy and see what they've got by the end of next year.  If it looks like he can cover some of the offense Hughes provides and provide better defense, it might be a good thing for JB..........moving Hughes would bring in a big return that can help in other spots

[Pure961089]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Why do you want to rush him?! Isn't it better to put him in a position to succeed?

How do you know he won’t succeed unless you play him and find out?  He looked good last year and got better with each game