boziffous Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 45 minutes ago, IBatch said: No worries. Right now we really don't have the components for a 3rd scoring line with BB, Motte and Sutter out. Once they are back we could do that though. With the existing guys can't really complain much with the effort, 23 shots in one period even against Detroit is pretty awesome. For sure before this season, we haven't had the right guys to make three scoring lines, it worked out decently with JV and AG two seasons ago though. Your right to say exactly that too, 20/20 is where we need to get to be competitive as a depth team. Just look at the last full season and where the 64-128 top scorers (forwards only), it could be said par is 20/20, good is 50, elite is 60. Second line 30/30 is par, 70 is elite. If we're talking about 3rd line players, wouldn't you need to look at the scoring for forwards in the 193 to 288 range? 64 to 128 would be low end first line and top end 2nd line forwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, EddieVedder said: He played between seguin and benn for stints. He has offensive talent. Agreed. I want to see him start displaying that here. I know it’s still early but we didn’t see that side during training camp, pre-season, and now these first 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 3 hours ago, IBatch said: Nobody ever said he had that. Only that he was a strong defensive player, which he is. I said this when we traded him several times, don't expect a scoring line with Dickinson as a third line C, and he's probably best suited on Sutters and Mottes line to create an awesome fourth defensive line. Play Miller as a third line C between Podz and Pearson/Hogs or whomever. Your not seeing it, because it's not there. Nothing wrong with 12-15 goals and 20 plus points on a defensive shut down line either. Edit: The "nobody" in this instance - were the experts. Shortly after the trade, Benning did say that he saw some untapped offensive potential in Dickinson and so maybe I got my hopes up for nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 11 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: Cliff Ronning + Alex Burrows = Conor Garland. I agree, Garland plays a lot like Ronning. What an awesome trade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 6 hours ago, Petey_BOI said: i don't remember anyone saying he had offensive potential Benning like a day or two after he made the Dickinson trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 10 hours ago, Patel Bure said: My pleasant surprise list: -Garland -OEL -Podkolzin -Hoglander -Myers -Burroughs Kind of what I expected: -Pettersson -Hughes -Miller -Rathbone -Demko -Highmore -Chiasson Disappointed in so far: -Dickinson -Pearson -Halak Horvat has been a disappointment so far as well, doesn;t seem to be in any rhythm and gripping the stock to tight in chances. Certainly not concerned, it's 3 games, but I expect much more from Bo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 We’ve been competitive in each game and all these new additions have so far proven to be valuable. What got me was that these hockey “experts” were calling OEL washed up. I knew he was would be Re-energized here. Here is to those idiot “experts”: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 9 hours ago, Patel Bure said: True, but how is that any different from what we saw out of Jay Beagle and Brandon Sutter these past few years? Only difference being that those guys can win face-offs. Dickinson was advertised as a guy that had some untapped hidden offensive potential. He was supposed to be our 3rd line center that could play a two way game while serving as a playmaker for our talented wingers. So far, I’m not seeing this offensive side or this hidden offensive potential. It does not have to be offensive side of game for as long as he does his job defensively as a 3C/4C role. His only weakness is faceoff side of thing as it is well known then and we should not be surprised by it. Even if they lose the faceoff, the only thing it matters is not allowing goals against right after the faceoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 44 minutes ago, Patel Bure said: Shortly after the trade, Benning did say that he saw some untapped offensive potential in Dickinson and so maybe I got my hopes up for nothing. Gotcha ... that sure would be great wouldn't it! Also think Motte does too...can't wait for him and Sutter to come back as feel Motte - Sutter - Dickinson could take heavy PK minutes and D starts for the team, plus add some goals against the best of the best. To me that's a 10-12 minute defensive fourth line waiting to get its chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 41 minutes ago, BCNate said: Horvat has been a disappointment so far as well, doesn;t seem to be in any rhythm and gripping the stock to tight in chances. Certainly not concerned, it's 3 games, but I expect much more from Bo. We will get it over an 82 game schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 45 minutes ago, BCNate said: I agree, Garland plays a lot like Ronning. What an awesome trade. I loved the Ronning. Called him "Radar" because with his helmet on he looked a lot like that M.A.S.H. character. If Garland is the next "Ronning" a total coupe by JB. Got excited about Garland when i read about how much ARI was disappointed to lose him lol. For sure stats wise, JB took a risk on a player with so few games. Guys got some Martin St. Louis in him - a gigantic chip on his shoulder given he was passed on the first draft, then after leading the entire CHL in points was drafted....but not really where he probably should have gone. If Ronning is his low bar and St. Louis is his high bar, by far the best signing JB has ever, ever made, and one of the best in club history. So far so good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, boziffous said: If we're talking about 3rd line players, wouldn't you need to look at the scoring for forwards in the 193 to 288 range? 64 to 128 would be low end first line and top end 2nd line forwards. Man my brain is done. Yes your correct. Guess i was into the mad 80's-early 90's zone. For sure thanks for the post. 32 x 3 ... plus the same, plus the same again. In that regard, 30-40 points is the range where we want to be. Edit: It's why i mentioned AG/JV as doing their job two seasons ago, and how badly we needed that secondary scoring last season...and only Sutter came to play. Edited October 18, 2021 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, IBatch said: Gotcha ... that sure would be great wouldn't it! Also think Motte does too...can't wait for him and Sutter to come back as feel Motte - Sutter - Dickinson could take heavy PK minutes and D starts for the team, plus add some goals against the best of the best. To me that's a 10-12 minute defensive fourth line waiting to get its chance. A part of me also wonders what a Miller-Dickinson-Podkolzin line could do in terms of shutting down opponents while also possessing the ability to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Patel Bure said: A part of me also wonders what a Miller-Dickinson-Podkolzin line could do in terms of shutting down opponents while also possessing the ability to score. For me, before the season and injuries disclosed, it seemed like we could create three actual scoring lines using Miller as the 3rd C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 29 minutes ago, coolboarder said: It does not have to be offensive side of game for as long as he does his job defensively as a 3C/4C role. His only weakness is faceoff side of thing as it is well known then and we should not be surprised by it. Even if they lose the faceoff, the only thing it matters is not allowing goals against right after the faceoff. Agreed. I guess I just want to see more out of Dickinson. We all know that Dickinson can play strong defensively, win board battles, and out work opponents. So could Jay Beagle....except Beagle was also good at face offs. With Dickinson, I just want to see a bit more offense other than being a solid defensive player just so we know that he’s an overall upgrade on a guy like Beagle. Dickinson being able to be a two way threat on a third line could be a huge advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 minute ago, IBatch said: For me, before the season and injuries disclosed, it seemed like we could create three actual scoring lines using Miller as the 3rd C. While I was never a huge fan of playing Miller as a center, I probably would have been open to..... Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser Pearson-Pettersson-Podkolzin Dickinson-Miller-Garland etc. Before training camp, I had slotted the following lines: Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser Miller-Pettersson-Podkolzin Pearson-Dickinson-Garland etc. Unfortunately, I’m not sure if Dickinson would have had enough of an offensive game to maximize Garland and Pearson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 30 minutes ago, IBatch said: We will get it over an 82 game schedule. 100%. Like I said, not concerned in any way, but he has had multiple grade A+ chances and nothing to show for it. He'll figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindiculous Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, boziffous said: If we're talking about 3rd line players, wouldn't you need to look at the scoring for forwards in the 193 to 288 range? 64 to 128 would be low end first line and top end 2nd line forwards. hahaha IKR. If we go back to the last full season 2018/19, 193rd had 16/16 32 points, and 288th had 8/12 20 points. If our third line players are able to score above that, we have an above average third line. The nonsense of thinking that 20/20 is normal for a usual third liner is insane. There's only been a couple teams in the last decade to have 7 20 goal scorers (aka 1 20 goal scorer on the third line), and there has not been a single teams with 8 20 goal scorers since the 2005/06 Red Wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby James Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Patel Bure said: True, but how is that any different from what we saw out of Jay Beagle and Brandon Sutter these past few years? Only difference being that those guys can win face-offs. Dickinson was advertised as a guy that had some untapped hidden offensive potential. He was supposed to be our 3rd line center that could play a two way game while serving as a playmaker for our talented wingers. So far, I’m not seeing this offensive side or this hidden offensive potential. I dunno I don't remember hearing anything about Dickinson's offensive potential, apart from some commenters here on the boards saying he has some. From what I heard when the trade was announced was that he is a excellent defensive forward that will kill penalties, but won't bring much scoring. So I'd say the main difference between him and the players you listed is that Dickinson is younger, better and cheaper. Cheaper being my favorite part. I just want him to be a solid tough defensive center that will allow our top 6 to focus more on generating offense, in particular allowing Horvat to have more offensive freedom then past seasons. Edit - just to confirm I see you mentioned it was Benning who said he had untapped offensive potential, which is fair I must have missed that though. From what I was reading and hearing from analysts and Stars fans (who were upset he was gone which is a good sign) is don't expect much offense, but he is great defensively. Edited October 18, 2021 by Bobby James update 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bobby James said: I dunno I don't remember hearing anything about Dickinson's offensive potential, apart from some commenters here on the boards saying he has some. From what I heard when the trade was announced was that he is a excellent defensive forward that will kill penalties, but won't bring much scoring. So I'd say the main difference between him and the players you listed is that Dickinson is younger, better and cheaper. Cheaper being my favorite part. I just want him to be a solid tough defensive center that will allow our top 6 to focus more on generating offense, in particular allowing Horvat to have more offensive freedom then past seasons. This is the article where both Dickinson and Benning state their beliefs that Dickinson has more to give offensively: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-hoping-newly-acquired-jason-dickinson-can-fill-third-line-void/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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