SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Declining asset? Are you not pumping Millers tires whenever possible? He's a poster perfect example of a likely declining asset. If Toews can't do it, or Benn, or Sequin...or Hall... why should we assume Miller can? He's not a generational talent. Or ending up in the HHOF. He's just really good right now, and we've seen (ok well i sure have) a ton of guys hockey players do this over the years and very very few, do what Pavelski has done. It's debatable the Sedins even managed it. Their deals were in the 8.6ish range in todays money x 2. We literally just went through this as a team and fanbase. Burrow's? He got paid for past production big time. Kesler? He earned every cent of his deal. And fans still turned on him. Miller has punched well above his cap hit, everyone knows that. But id bet. as soon as he gets paid 8-9, he's going to be scrutinized if he's in a slump, isn't at least a PPG guy etc. And based on history, it's slim odds - extremely slim, that he's going to be a good number one center the duration of his next deal. Half of it will be ok, the other half not good. It would be fine IF we had a backlog of prospects waiting to balance the books we don't. This is what i predict is going to happen. Horvat will re-sign, it won't hurt us either. Unless Miller is traded before the season starts, the odds of him re-signing go way down, same with the odds of him getting traded. When is the last time you've seen a team in a good playoff spot trade their best forward? Has it ever even happened? And i think this is a playoff team. Love Miller, but there are solid reasons why media types keep speculating. I'd love to have Miller on our team for 11ish years total. Is that going to happen though? Not very likely. That’s a leaps and bounds statement, but your not associating it with any loss of production from Horvat, which will happen also. Horvat at 7m declining from his production now, is more of a loss to us than the decline Miller might have from 100 pts at 8m. Using Toews as an example, if you like.. Millers numbers dropping to 40 or 50 points after 4 seasons is basically matching those of Horvats now. so what do Horvats numbers decline to in 4 years at 7m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Dubois has already said he’s testing the market. Horrendous proposal. Now your overvaluing Horvat. There are many here who think their favorite players are gods. Dubois could / should start to prime next season , especially going somewhere offering the opportunities Bo has been given. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackdawg Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, SilentSam said: That’s a leaps and bounds statement, but your not associating it with any loss of production from Horvat, which will happen also. Horvat at 7m declining from his production now, is more of a loss to us than the decline Miller might have from 100 pts at 8m. Using Toews as an example, if you like.. Millers numbers dropping to 40 or 50 points after 4 seasons is basically matching those of Horvats now. so what do Horvats numbers decline to in 4 years at 7m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackdawg Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Rackdawg said: Imo horvat at 31 will be in full out freefall.. Edited July 29, 2022 by Rackdawg 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 59 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: You know, it is possible that part of the issue on trading him is, that other teams are having sticker shock on what Miller wants as next contract and are backing away due to that. You look at the fact that Kadri hasn't signed a long term deal right now, the money isn't out there, and its not going to get significantly better next summer. Look at Toronto for next summer. They have 7 guys hitting UFA, they only have 12 currently signed and they will have roughly 15 million after the increase to fill out 10..ish spots. Miller can't control where the Canucks trade him. Or can he? Any team that wants to deal will want him to resign as part of the trade. If JT isn't much interested in going to a particular team he can make demands that ensure the acquiring team's interest will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 35 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: lol how is that not working for him player value wise? he's getting 8mil + for a guy that have never been a ppg guy in his career.. he's like a 0.75 points per game guy at best.. with 2 30 goal season in his career.. his stats are literally identical to horvat.. if anything he's overpaid.. if hertl is getting 8.2?? horvat should be pointing to that as comparables That’s what I’m saying, Hertyl is overpaid. Bo shouldn’t even get 7m on a love me I’m a Canuck for life contract. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Yes, two different players, two different styles, why do we have to replace what Horvat brings to us? We’re not replacing that if we trade Miller. If we traded for Bo for Dubois, I think a sweetener would be included from the Jets, a pick? why because defense wins championship in the playoff? it's also funny you mention Bo have already given us his best.. ok so Bo being 26 have already peaked.. but Miller at 29 will continue to get better?? why do we have to replace what horvat brings to the team? so who's taking all those big defensive draw? who's playing against other teams top line? who's going to provide you the 30+ goals in a defensive role? Miller? the guy that doesn't really play defense? or we going to take EP and put him in a defensive role? bo literally had a career year in goal with 31 goals in 70 games at 26 in a 2nd line defensive role vs Miller 26 goals in 82 games at 26 in a first line offensive role.. but Bo apparently is not allowed to get any better.. i he remained healthy for the last 12 games.. he prolly hit 35 goals.. is miller hitting those numbers in a defensive role? possible but he'll be giving up god knows how many goals against other teams top line since he won't be coming back to the defensive zone anytime soon. funniest comment i've read the past couple weeks.. trade bo for dubois who literally pretty much guaranteed he won't play for any other team as long as montreal offers him a contract in ufa 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, Rackdawg said: Imo horvat at 31 will be in full out freefall.. He’s been injured a bit too. Thus the other argument, what if he gets hurt at the start of the season? .. that’s how it ended last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Just now, wai_lai416 said: why because defense wins championship in the playoff? it's also funny you mention Bo have already given us his best.. ok so Bo being 26 have already peaked.. but Miller at 29 will continue to get better?? why do we have to replace what horvat brings to the team? so who's taking all those big defensive draw? who's playing against other teams top line? who's going to provide you the 30+ goals in a defensive role? Miller? the guy that doesn't really play defense? or we going to take EP and put him in a defensive role? bo literally had a career year in goal with 31 goals in 70 games at 26 in a 2nd line defensive role vs Miller 26 goals in 82 games at 26 in a first line offensive role.. but Bo apparently is not allowed to get any better.. i he remained healthy for the last 12 games.. he prolly hit 35 goals.. is miller hitting those numbers in a defensive role? possible but he'll be giving up god knows how many goals against other teams top line since he won't be coming back to the defensive zone anytime soon. funniest comment i've read the past couple weeks.. trade bo for dubois who literally pretty much guaranteed he won't play for any other team as long as montreal offers him a contract in ufa Wasn’t this your argument with LE staying with the Canucks? exceptional defensive numbers, leader in the room.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Now your overvaluing Horvat. There are many here who think their favorite players are gods. Dubois could / should start to prime next season , especially going somewhere offering the opportunities Bo has been given. How am I overvaluing Horvat? Dubois is testing the market, period. Dumb trade. Downgrading for a guy who is leaving. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 10 minutes ago, Rackdawg said: Imo horvat at 31 will be in full out freefall.. Pretty wild speculation, what are you basing this on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post canuck73_3 Posted July 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) @SilentSamgonna have a jammer when Bo re-signs. Astonishing logic that JT is a force at 30+ and Bo at 26 is spiralling downward too. Edited July 29, 2022 by canuck73_3 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Just now, VegasCanuck said: Pretty wild speculation, what are you basing this on? Come on man, you know EVERY player that hit's 30 goes on free fall! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Declining asset? Are you not pumping Millers tires whenever possible? He's a poster perfect example of a likely declining asset. If Toews can't do it, or Benn, or Sequin...or Hall... why should we assume Miller can? He's not a generational talent. Or ending up in the HHOF. He's just really good right now, and we've seen (ok well i sure have) a ton of guys hockey players do this over the years and very very few, do what Pavelski has done. It's debatable the Sedins even managed it. Their deals were in the 8.6ish range in todays money x 2. We literally just went through this as a team and fanbase. Burrow's? He got paid for past production big time. Kesler? He earned every cent of his deal. And fans still turned on him. Miller has punched well above his cap hit, everyone knows that. But id bet. as soon as he gets paid 8-9, he's going to be scrutinized if he's in a slump, isn't at least a PPG guy etc. And based on history, it's slim odds - extremely slim, that he's going to be a good number one center the duration of his next deal. Half of it will be ok, the other half not good. It would be fine IF we had a backlog of prospects waiting to balance the books we don't. This is what i predict is going to happen. Horvat will re-sign, it won't hurt us either. Unless Miller is traded before the season starts, the odds of him re-signing go way down, same with the odds of him getting traded. When is the last time you've seen a team in a good playoff spot trade their best forward? Has it ever even happened? And i think this is a playoff team. Love Miller, but there are solid reasons why media types keep speculating. I'd love to have Miller on our team for 11ish years total. Is that going to happen though? Not very likely. Your opinion could be used with Horvat just as easy.. The difference between Horvat and Miller is aprx.. 50 pts and 1m per year on the next contract. Nothing coming back from a Miller trade is going to replace him. But it’s possible to get something similar, plus an asset back from moving Horvat. I think my assumptions are less than yours on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, SilentSam said: He’s been injured a bit too. Thus the other argument, what if he gets hurt at the start of the season? .. that’s how it ended last season. Are you trolling now? Too much time out in the sun? No sleep yet? You're usually a good poster. But this has been non-stop nonsense lately. We do not have to trade any of our top players. Period. Dot. Dot. Only if the right deal comes along, should we jump on it. All these doom and gloom predictions of injury, et al are so ridiculous. It is the end of July = the middle of the summer. Those are the risks of pro sports; always. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, SilentSam said: He’s been injured a bit too. Thus the other argument, what if he gets hurt at the start of the season? .. that’s how it ended last season. Can happen with any player. 2018/19 - played all 82 games 2019/20 - played all 69 games before season pause 2020/21 - played all 56 games of the Covid shortened season 2021/22 - played 70 games before hurting his ankle blocking a shot. So, all told, missed 12 games in the last possible 289 games. That hardly constitutes any issues with injuries. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: @SilentSamgonna have a jammer when Bo re-signs. Astonishing logic that JT is a force at 30+ and Bo at 26 is spiralling downward too. Not at all. I could really care less about what happens because it’s out of my control. but if Bo does go, going to be a lot of broken pink hearts in Vancouver, and on these boards.… as there was when we traded a 1st rnd pick for JT. best move this team has made since 2011, apart from drafting Demko. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 minute ago, SilentSam said: Not at all. I could really care less about what happens because it’s out of my control. but if Bo does go, going to be a lot of broken pink hearts in Vancouver, and on these boards.… as there was when we traded a 1st rnd pick for JT. best move this team has made since 2011, apart from drafting Demko. I'd say drafting Pettersson and Hughes have been pretty high up there as well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackdawg Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 8 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: @SilentSamgonna have a jammer when Bo re-signs. Astonishing logic that JT is a force at 30+ and Bo at 26 is spiralling downward too. Bo will be 28 fyi start of next yrs playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 4 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: Are you trolling now? Too much time out in the sun? No sleep yet? You're usually a good poster. But this has been non-stop nonsense lately. We do not have to trade any of our top players. Period. Dot. Dot. Only if the right deal comes along, should we jump on it. All these doom and gloom predictions of injury, et al are so ridiculous. It is the end of July = the middle of the summer. Those are the risks of pro sports; always. Lol, no .. I’m making conversations about other possibilities that exist at this time. Moving Horvat is a possibility.. if another team called and said ”why haven’t you signed Horvat yet?” .. and that team made an offer they can’t refuse,. do you keep him because it upsets the fan base too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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