[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[higgyfan]

28 minutes ago, aGENT said:

*Yet. The TDL is still a month away. Patience.

 

And based on...? HF?.....

 

Who's suggesting we "take whatever we get". If we're only getting offers that we could get in the summer, we hang on to him until the summer.

 

He'll want the same deal Zib has on the Rangers. $8.5 x 8, with clauses. At minimum.

Which is why other teams are losing interest in a trade to get him.  The return in a trade for him is so high, along with the prospect of trying to re-sign him is staggering for any of the contending teams.  Some might do the $, but the term is

ridiculous.

 

I don't see him getting traded anytime soon.

[Podz92]

7 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Oh… and also… why?

I am a tarantula breeder, I ship tarantulas to collectors all across Canada. Weird I know but it’s my passion... 

[grandmaster]

17 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Why would the Canucks trade the best player they've had since the Sedins were in their prime?  Miller is the heart and soul of the team. Ripping that out of the roster kills their chances of playoffs. Even if they get a really nice return, they would be missing his drive and determination. I don't think Miller is going anywhere, just the Canucks f***ing with the rest of the league   Then when they all realize Miller isn't available, they'll be lining up for Garland.

[RWJC]

6 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Which is why other teams are losing interest in a trade to get him.  The return in a trade for him is so high, along with the prospect of trying to re-sign him is staggering for any of the contending teams.  Some might do the $, but the term is

ridiculous.

 

I don't see him getting traded anytime soon.

We don’t really know that though, but very likely.

 

Could definitely see teams waiting for the UFA signing competition and not lose any major future assets to acquire talent. Like the Habs have stated they intend to do.

Edited February 26, 2022 by RWJC

[Gawdzukes]

43 minutes ago, aGENT said:

*Yet. The TDL is still a month away. Patience.

 

And based on...? HF?.....

 

Who's suggesting we "take whatever we get". If we're only getting offers that we could get in the summer, we hang on to him until the summer.

 

He'll want the same deal Zib has on the Rangers. $8.5 x 8, with clauses. At minimum.

Yeah HF boards material at it's best. Where does this guy get no significant offers from, MS? lol some people

[Gawdzukes]

32 minutes ago, aGENT said:

It's what anyone with a brain can see his value is. Zib is a recently signed, similar aged, similar production comparable. Probably the best one out there. 

 

You guys can't argue he's the second coming for us, while simultaneously suggesting his value isn't that high.

lol, like duh

[Provost]

14 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Which is why other teams are losing interest in a trade to get him.  The return in a trade for him is so high, along with the prospect of trying to re-sign him is staggering for any of the contending teams.  Some might do the $, but the term is

ridiculous.

 

I don't see him getting traded anytime soon.

That doesn't even make sense... 

Contending teams have a window and pay 1st round picks for journeymen players who are pure rentals for two months.  Getting a cheap player who is producing at a top ten in the entire league rate for two playoffs runs gives them a better chance at the Cup during their contending windows.  They would pay a kings ransom even if they didn't intend on signing him after that.

Also GMs aren't worried about possible issues 8-10 years down the line, the entire history of the NHL free agency period makes that startlingly clear.  They aren't going to have that job by then and all sorts of things can happen, not least of which is Miller still being a 1st line calibre player at the end of his contract which would have become a great value with rising cap inflation.

[higgyfan]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

That doesn't even make sense... 

Contending teams have a window and pay 1st round picks for journeymen players who are pure rentals for two months.  Getting a cheap player who is producing at a top ten in the entire league rate for two playoffs runs gives them a better chance at the Cup during their contending windows.  They would pay a kings ransom even if they didn't intend on signing him after that.

Also GMs aren't worried about possible issues 8-10 years down the line, the entire history of the NHL free agency period makes that startlingly clear.  They aren't going to have that job by then and all sorts of things can happen, not least of which is Miller still being a 1st line calibre player at the end of his contract which would have become a great value with rising cap inflation.

The Miller trade will likely require more than draft picks.  Nucks will want the 1st, a really good prospect and a good young nhl player.  Teams like the Rangers are still young, so their window several years.  It's the aging teams that want 1 last go at the SC that would be interested, but rarely have the pieces that the Nucks would want.  Seriously, look at the proposal thread; Capitals, Penquins, Vegas, Bruins, Blues etc.  These teams really don't have much of what the Canucks want.  They will probably pick up the pending UFA guys that are being dangled.

 

I don't see a decent trade for Miller right now and that's why the trade 'talk' has died down.  I think they will keep him and trade him in the offseason or sometime next season.

 

 

 

 

 

[Crabcakes]

27 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Agree with everything except Miller not being worth more than 7. That’s totally incorrect in contrast to his current league wide market value. Maybe 4 years ago?

 

oh, and Myers does bring value. You just have to objective and look at it fairly. He may not be up to his contract value in some people’s eyes, but again, look at the market and AAV’s and he’s at least close. It’s not his contract undermining this franchise. 

I wasn't clear enough on that point.  What I meant to say was that on this roster you don't want players who aren't named Demko, Pettersson or Hughes earning more than $7M.  Assuming those are the players that they are building this team around.  This doesn't mean that Miller wouldn't get more than $7M on the open market.  The reason is that if you have too many big salaries, you sacrifice depth.  A team can't win without high end skill but it also can't win without depth and in a cap world, all of this takes tremendous discipline.

 

Myers is a funny one because he has played indifferently for a number of years but has been playing much better this year.  Is this improvement permanent?  I think that he brings value to a team just not at $6.0 and there is a thread dedicated to this discussion.  I think that at 3.5 or 4 he would be a good addition.  

 

I thought it would be interesting to lay out the top salaries on the Canucks and say, ok, you want cap space?  You want a top 4 RHD?  Who do you pick to move on from?

 

Look at Pittsburgh.  Rutherford and Allvin come from there and they have Crosby, Malkin and Letang over $7.0, the bare bones core of the team.  Guentzel at $6.0 and the rest of the team is under 5.0.  And they have depth.  This is their model.

[Provost]

Just now, higgyfan said:

The Miller trade will likely require more than draft picks.  Nucks will want the 1st, a really good prospect and a good young nhl player.  Teams like the Rangers are still young, so their window several years.  It's the aging teams that want 1 last go at the SC that would be interested, but rarely have the pieces that the Nucks would want.  Seriously, look at the proposal thread; Capitals, Penquins, Vegas, Bruins, Blues etc.  These teams really don't have much of what the Canucks want.  They will probably pick up the pending UFA guys that are being dangled.

 

I don't see a decent trade for Miller right now and that's why the trade 'talk' has died down.  I think they will keep him and trade him in the offseason or sometime next season.

 

 

 

 

 

Guess what... Miller isn't a journeyman hockey player either so of course he isn't going to be the same price.

There is zero evidence that trade talks have died down because other teams are losing interest as you have suggested.  What is out there from media and sources around the league is literally the opposite and that it is the Canucks have pulled back on the Miller trade front at the moment.

[RWJC]

3 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The Miller trade will likely require more than draft picks.  Nucks will want the 1st, a really good prospect and a good young nhl player.  Teams like the Rangers are still young, so their window several years.  It's the aging teams that want 1 last go at the SC that would be interested, but rarely have the pieces that the Nucks would want.  Seriously, look at the proposal thread; Capitals, Penquins, Vegas, Bruins, Blues etc.  These teams really don't have much of what the Canucks want.  They will probably pick up the pending UFA guys that are being dangled.

 

I don't see a decent trade for Miller right now and that's why the trade 'talk' has died down.  I think they will keep him and trade him in the offseason or sometime next season.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, but that's also the way "parity" goes in the NHL.

It's the calculated risk that a couple teams take at every deadline.

It's cost of pursuing the cup.

There's definitely a market and a deal or two available for Miller at the price point the Nux have set him at.

I don't think it so much the acquisition cost right now as much as waiting to see what else comes available. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by RWJC

[RWJC]

3 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I wasn't clear enough on that point.  What I meant to say was that on this roster you don't want players who aren't named Demko, Pettersson or Hughes earning more than $7M.  Assuming those are the players that they are building this team around.  This doesn't mean that Miller wouldn't get more than $7M on the open market.  The reason is that if you have too many big salaries, you sacrifice depth.  A team can't win without high end skill but it also can't win without depth and in a cap world, all of this takes tremendous discipline.

 

Myers is a funny one because he has played indifferently for a number of years but has been playing much better this year.  Is this improvement permanent?  I think that he brings value to a team just not at $6.0 and there is a thread dedicated to this discussion.  I think that at 3.5 or 4 he would be a good addition.  

 

I thought it would be interesting to lay out the top salaries on the Canucks and say, ok, you want cap space?  You want a top 4 RHD?  Who do you pick to move on from?

 

Look at Pittsburgh.  Rutherford and Allvin come from there and they have Crosby, Malkin and Letang over $7.0, the bare bones core of the team.  Guentzel at $6.0 and the rest of the team is under 5.0.  And they have depth.  This is their model.

Totally, but the other part of the structure that PIT has isn't just the top players deservingly making the big dough, but their top players are also the team leadership group.

Miller is a team leader here. EP will be, he's not necessarily that right now.

In terms of the Nux salary structure, Miller should very well be at EP $ level or above. He will get above on the market. Egos also have to be appeased, and Miller has used his to the team's advatange on the ice thus far. I'd argue he's run more of the show the last few years than EP has.

[Crabcakes]

49 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Don't other teams that have top guys pay them more than we do ours though?  Look at teams like the LOSER Leafs.  The have four guys totalling 40 million, right?  We can pay guys 8 or less and have 6 guys making that much.  So we have more good players, no?

It's the Penguins model.  

 

The loser Leafs actually fit the model despite their crazy top heavy line up.  3 players over 7.0 (a lot over). 3 players between 5 & 7.

 

Even the loser Oilers follow this.  3 players over 7 (next year), 2 players between 5 & 7 and the rest.

 

But these are flawed line ups imo.  Maybe we should look at the total for the top 3 and the total for the top 6 or 8.  But I think that if a team has 8 players north of 5.0, they are up against the cap.

[grandmaster]

12 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The Miller trade will likely require more than draft picks.  Nucks will want the 1st, a really good prospect and a good young nhl player.  Teams like the Rangers are still young, so their window several years.  It's the aging teams that want 1 last go at the SC that would be interested, but rarely have the pieces that the Nucks would want.  Seriously, look at the proposal thread; Capitals, Penquins, Vegas, Bruins, Blues etc.  These teams really don't have much of what the Canucks want.  They will probably pick up the pending UFA guys that are being dangled.

 

I don't see a decent trade for Miller right now and that's why the trade 'talk' has died down.  I think they will keep him and trade him in the offseason or sometime next season.

 

 

 

 

 

You got the first part right. 
 

I see this organization signing Miller to an extension this summer. They will have their entire management staff on this one. No “running out of time” crap. 
 

Edited February 26, 2022 by grandmaster

[higgyfan]

6 minutes ago, Provost said:

Guess what... Miller isn't a journeyman hockey player either so of course he isn't going to be the same price.

There is zero evidence that trade talks have died down because other teams are losing interest as you have suggested.  What is out there from media and sources around the league is literally the opposite and that it is the Canucks have pulled back on the Miller trade front at the moment.

Guess what...Forsburg and Giroux are not journeyman players either.  As we get closer to TDL, there may be others being offered when teams realize their playoff hopes are gone.

 

The only recent 'trade talk' regarding Miller is coming via the Leafs and they have nothing the Canucks would want. 

[Crabcakes]

3 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Totally, but the other part of the structure that PIT has isn't just the top players deservingly making the big dough, but their top players are also the team leadership group.

Miller is a team leader here. EP will be, he's not necessarily that right now.

In terms of the Nux salary structure, Miller should very well be at EP $ level or above. He will get above on the market. Egos also have to be appeased, and Miller has used his to the team's advatange on the ice thus far. I'd argue he's run more of the show the last few years than EP has.

You're right.  I don't see EP or Hughes as leaders.  

 

If they keep Miller then, they need to move on somebody else.  I'm torn myself.  Selling high and netting a great return vs keeping a really good player in his prime

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

It's the Penguins model.  

 

The loser Leafs actually fit the model despite their crazy top heavy line up.  3 players over 7.0 (a lot over). 3 players between 5 & 7.

 

Even the loser Oilers follow this.  3 players over 7 (next year), 2 players between 5 & 7 and the rest.

 

But these are flawed line ups imo.  Maybe we should look at the total for the top 3 and the total for the top 6 or 8.  But I think that if a team has 8 players north of 5.0, they are up against the cap.

true.  but because we arent stupid like the loser leafs, and paying out top guys several million too much each, we can afford one more 7 million dollar player.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, higgyfan said:

Guess what...Forsburg and Giroux are not journeyman players either.  As we get closer to TDL, there may be others being offered when teams realize their playoff hopes are gone.

 

The only recent 'trade talk' regarding Miller is coming via the Leafs and they have nothing the Canucks would want. 

both coming ufas.  miller comes with two playoffs.  

[higgyfan]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

both coming ufas.  miller comes with two playoffs.  

They have the option of re-signing or not (these teams are usually close or over the cap, so probably wouldn't).  The point is, they will pay less for 1yr in a trade for those guys than for Miller's 2yrs

[Crabcakes]

19 minutes ago, Provost said:

Guess what... Miller isn't a journeyman hockey player either so of course he isn't going to be the same price.

There is zero evidence that trade talks have died down because other teams are losing interest as you have suggested.  What is out there from media and sources around the league is literally the opposite and that it is the Canucks have pulled back on the Miller trade front at the moment.

Maybe they know what they can get for Miller now.  Maybe they are going through the players who they might trade and seeing what possible returns are.  There has been talk lately of moving Myers for example.  

 

Closer to the trade deadline they will make their final decision(s).