BPA Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 @HKSR @JM_ So what cap and term do you think Miller will re-sign with the Canucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, JM_ said: we've all seen how bringing in UFAs can be a disastrous fit. We know Miller fits here. Thats actually worth something. The magic two year re-tool comes with risks as well. I don't see much effort on the 'move Miller' side acknowledging the risks of the prospects and picks we might get for Miller not working out. Exactly. The pro-trade Miller side just talks about best case scenario that everything turns out from picks, prospects and free agents. While they compare it to worst case scenario of Miller declining to oblivion within 2 years. Just amazes me sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, HKSR said: The bottomline is the issue is not Wheeler. No, the issue is they can't afford to add the quality depth players they need to be real contenders, in large part because they are over paying an aging asset 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, BPA said: @HKSR @JM_ So what cap and term do you think Miller will re-sign with the Canucks? I think it depends on how the bonuses are structured and how front loaded it is. Ideally similar to Hertl, given Miler is older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, JM_ said: great under Boudreau. Did you forget about the Green disaster to start the year? We'd likely be firmly in 3rd place in the pacific if we had Bruce all year, and no one would be talking about a Miller deal. Lets not trade our best F this year based on Green's inability to run this team. Laying the team’s shortcomings all on Green is a stretch. Obviously Boudreau has coached them better. However Boudreau has commented on the shortcomings of this group. Winning a Cup is what it is about. There is no guarantee that moving Miller will yield a Cup but I like the odds better than keeping him. That said there might be other options that JR is working on. Would love to be the fly on the wall. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, BPA said: @HKSR @JM_ So what cap and term do you think Miller will re-sign with the Canucks? Not saying he will come cheap. $9m x 8 years. By the end of that deal, it'd be the equivalent of $7.xx in today's cap world, so not exactly terrible. That's if he doesn't retire by year 7 or 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: No, the issue is they can't afford to add the quality depth players they need to be real contenders, in large part because they are over paying an aging asset Again, just generalizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: No, the issue is they can't afford to add the quality depth players they need to be real contenders, in large part because they are over paying an aging asset thats not our current problem though. Our is overpaying for middling players like Dickie, Poolman, Halak and Pearson. Shed those, and we're in great shape cap-wise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: The bottomline is the issue is not Wheeler. That they used Wheelers $8m+ contract on 2-3 quality depth players to support MS, CH, NE and JM they'd have been far, far, far better off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Could they have signed those kinds of players even if they were there? Hint, the answer is no because they have a cap number well above the actual limit. If not for Littles ltir status they'd have to shed even more quality players They have a very solid team. I actually really like their depth up and down the lineup, but when your best player and best goalie are having off years, you'll be a bubble team. The fact they are a bubble team in spite of that says they have built a very solid team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Again, just generalizations. As opposed to the one where you pick one outlier from Millers career as the basis to assume that's the player he's going to be from now on? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, JM_ said: thats not our current problem though. Our is overpaying for middling players like Dickie, Poolman, Halak and Pearson. Shed those, and we're in great shape cap-wise. I give up on trying to show logic. They are SOOOO fixated on Miller being an anchor they don't see how many other wasted cap hits exist on this roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, stawns said: As opposed to the one where you pick one outlier from Millers career as the basis to assume that's the player he's going to be from now on? Back to that again. I told you a billion times. Over the past 2 decades, RARELY ever does a player of his age sit top 10 in scoring. Ignoring it AGAIN. I'm done talking in circles with you. Waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Laying the team’s shortcomings all on Green is a stretch. Obviously Boudreau has coached them better. However Boudreau has commented on the shortcomings of this group. Winning a Cup is what it is about. There is no guarantee that moving Miller will yield a Cup but I like the odds better than keeping him. That said there might be other options that JR is working on. Would love to be the fly on the wall. I'm just not locked in to the idea that Miller is the problem sitting between us and a cup. There are a number of ways to improve this team. And they all come with risks. Take a Garland deal e.g., that might net us a RHD prospect, a pick and of course cap room. Maybe we trade Myers and pick up Klinberg and that works better for us. Maybe Brock is moved for Severson and Zacha. There could be many combinations that get us into the playoffs regularly over the next 4-5 years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: They have a very solid team. I actually really like their depth up and down the lineup, but when your best player and best goalie are having off years, you'll be a bubble team. The fact they are a bubble team in spite of that says they have built a very solid team. Sorry, bubble playoff team is not what I aspire this team to be 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: I give up on trying to show logic. They are SOOOO fixated on Miller being an anchor they don't see how many other wasted cap hits exist on this roster. Your "logic" hinges on the idea that a player in his 30's is not going to decline and that the one great season in his career is the one we use to project his next eight seasons 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 The reaction when he's resigned is going to be fun. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Your "logic" hinges on the idea that a player in his 30's is not going to decline and that the one great season in his career is the one we use to project his next eight seasons Never said he wouldn't decline, but ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: Never said he wouldn't decline, but ok. You really are your own worst enemy in this thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, stawns said: For the thousands of players who have played this game into their 30's, only a handful have continued to be dominant as they age. If we made a list of players that dominated in their 30's to players who had a steady decline in play, my list would be multitudes longer than yours, not even comparable. JT has had one dominant season in his career, the rest has been average to above average. I was very happy when JB traded for him, one of the few who were completely fine with what they gave and JT has lived up to that deal and that expectation. But the mythology that people have built around him in the last 6 months is laughable and he will almost certainly come down to earth and then start his decline as he enters his 30's. That's just biology Are you sure? I can direct you to a very scientific study where the "researcher" handpicked 23 random players 29/30 years of age containing at least 10 hall of fame players and showed half of them were still pretty decent at 35/36. Ha ha I laugh every time I see that thread. Needed a good laugh this morning. I also was one of the few people that loved the trade initially and I also think he has provided us tremendous value for that. At the end of this contract I don't think JB was ever planning on anything but a wait and see approach when it came to re-signing Miller. I don't think there is any way in the world he would be re-signing Miller in this situation. If he were to have continued at his pace and a 4 or 5 year deal at $7m or so was on the table I think it definitely would have been considered but .... not anymore. As you indicated no one outsmarts father time ... except Seriously though I get how much people are in love with Miller with the crazy claims they are making. I almost want to see him signed to a juicy retirement deal just so everyone can see all hoops and logistical obstacles we have to jump through just to ice a team. I will ultimately be blown away if JR and co go that route after their stated directives. Sufficed to say my expectations would be almost zero moving forward. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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