DeNiro Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: It would be great for us if he took that risk on a shorter term, but I don’t see him doing that. Do any players who can sign longer term and big dollars take shorter term and less that are in Miller’s position? Either way I hope that Miller and his agent are looking at this rationally. If he walks to free agency next summer what do you think the odds are of teams lining up to offer him a 7 year deal at 30 are? I think the lack of trade interest has already shown that it’s not high. And that’s not even factoring worst case scenarios like injury shortened seasons or a season where he puts up like 60-70 points. If the Canucks have a 5 year 40 million dollar contract on the table for him he should take it. I don’t see teams going more than 6 for him, and he’s certainly not getting more than 8 mil if he doesn’t have a strong follow up season. Its a big risk to not take the money now. I’m glad that management seems to be sticking to their guns. They absolutely can’t afford another inflated contract for an aging player. Edited July 23, 2022 by DeNiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: They have. It is called salary cap. If the market calls for it then they deserve it. Markets need correction from time to time and, imo, the market isn't working and it's hurting the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Either way I hope that Miller and his agent are looking at this rationally. If he walks to free agency next summer what do you think the odds are of teams lining up to offer him a 7 year deal at 30 are? I think the lack of trade interest has already shown that it’s not high. And that’s not even factoring worst case scenarios like injury shortened seasons or a season where he puts up like 60-70 points. If the Canucks have a 5 year 40 million dollar contract on the table for him he should take it. I don’t see teams going more than 6 for him, and he’s certainly not getting more than 8 mil if he doesn’t have a strong follow up season. Its a big risk to not take the money now. I’m glad that management seems to be sticking to their guns. They absolutely can’t afford another inflated contract for an aging player. I'd have no issue with a 4 year, $8m deal.........5 is a year too long for my comfort level at that aav. That said, it wouldn't be disasterous like a longer deal would be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: Markets need correction from time to time and, imo, the market isn't working and it's hurting the game. If a guy is good enough to make the league at 18 or 19, how long is it fair that a team controls them just because they drafted the. These kids are the stars of the league now. They deserve to get paid. who it isn’t fair to is the mid range guys. They are getting frozen out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 27 minutes ago, Warhippy said: If he can get $8+ million over 4 years and maintain that level of play to within 10-15 points, he at 33-34 would be able to sign another 3-4 year deal that's comparable based on increasing cap hits and comparable contracts without giving a team the fear of the 35+ contract. At that point he holds his destiny in his own hands In the ideal world both parties wins. We make an off the record deal that we'll give him another 4-5 years at 6-8M once he isn't part of the cap, and even if he plays like a 3rd or 4th line centre, the only hurt is FAs check book. But if JR/PA gets sacked before Millers 4 year deal is up, the next GM might not be interested in any deals made behind the scenes... Or if Millers form drops to aforementioned level JR/PA may suddenly suffer from amnesia, if FA isn't prepared to pay a 3rd 4th line player 6-8M Miller could be on the street licking his wounds... Hence the gamble.... I'd love if they could make a deal like that, but I would be very surprised to see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: If a guy is good enough to make the league at 18 or 19, how long is it fair that a team controls them just because they drafted the. These kids are the stars of the league now. They deserve to get paid. who it isn’t fair to is the mid range guys. They are getting frozen out. yes, probably 65% of the league........the guys you have to have to win Championships. Huge contracts should be a reward for years of consistently high level play, not forwhat they might do in the future. I'd like to see a graduated system where young players get a % raise on each contract and where a bonus for hitting incentives that is counted for their raise and with term limits. I don't see anything wrong with a system where the cap is more evenly distributed. Edited July 23, 2022 by stawns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Alflives said: My concern with Miller playing this season without a contract is with our owner allowing a TDL Trade that will definitely hurt the club’s playoff chances. Actually the sooner the better so it doesn't become a distraction. Imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Just now, stawns said: yes, probably 65% of the league........the guys you have to have to win Championships. Huge contracts should be a reward for years of consistently high level play, not forwhat they might do in the future. I'd like to see a graduated system where young players get a % raise on each contract and where a bonus for hitting incentives that is counted for their raise and with term limits. I don't see anything wrong with a system the cap is more evenly distributed. Makes no sense. Connor McDavid is worth more than any other player in the league no matter their level of experience and should get paid for it. We wouldn’t tolerate that kind of salary control in any other career, these billionaire scumbag owners get enough control over these young peoples lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, spook007 said: We make an off the record deal Then league finds out and the team loses their next 5 first, and 2nd round draft picks for cap circumvention. Plus a huge fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 43 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I would like to see players not being able to sign one year deals when they’re RFAs eliminated. They’ve given too much leverage to players that way IMO. I'd even be happy just to see term limits on rfa contracts.......make them all 3 years until they hit UFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Hairy Kneel said: Actually the sooner the better so it doesn't become a distraction. Imo I don’t see him or his agent wanting to go into next season without a contract either. Every game where he performs under his 99 point season hurts his value: This is a game of chicken right now, we’ll see who caves first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Makes no sense. Connor McDavid is worth more than any other player in the league no matter their level of experience and should get paid for it. We wouldn’t tolerate that kind of salary control in any other career, these billionaire scumbag owners get enough control over these young peoples lives. they would just make bonus incentives a bigger part of the system. Say McD has a $5m base salary and an extra $2m for hitting 100 pts, $1m for hitting 40 goals etc etc. they could also raise the max salary for entry level deals that would give a player like McD a significant salary to start off with Edited July 23, 2022 by stawns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 49 minutes ago, Warhippy said: If he can get $8+ million over 4 years and maintain that level of play to within 10-15 points, he at 33-34 would be able to sign another 3-4 year deal that's comparable based on increasing cap hits and comparable contracts without giving a team the fear of the 35+ contract. At that point he holds his destiny in his own hands Well this is the way it should really work. I wished the NHL had a ceiling of a 3-5 year contract. It's a business that the NHL wants to succeed and no market loves seeing a player being a deadweight anchor with an overpaid contract for too many years. Too many guys are getting paid for their potential instead of their current level and it's all about the pressure that a team may lose them. The game itself would also be better if more guys were in contract years being more accountable to themselves. Makes for an interesting off-season too. A guy like Miller I wouldn't worry about from a mental perspective. I think he'll give it his all regardless. It's his age that is the concern. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 55 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I would like to see players not being able to sign one year deals when they’re RFAs eliminated. They’ve given too much leverage to players that way IMO. Everyone says it's a business when GMs make moves in the best interest of the team, but have a problem when players start playing the business side. Now everyone wants rules to cut them at the knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 41 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I’ll play devils advocate and say that it’s always smarter to take guaranteed money now than hoping for it in the future. Anything could happen in the next season. He could have a serious injury or he could have a season where he only puts up 60 points. Both would obviously eliminate any chance of him getting anything close to 8 million. If him and his agent are smart and there’s 50 million on the table right now they should take it and run. From a players' perspective, absolutely. The problem is that the system is now rigged for the players, making the product more vulnerable. I'm all for players getting their well earned salaries, whatever the number. But think of the number of contracts that teams were pressured to do, which then handcuffed them not long after. That's the crap the league should eliminate and a cap on the number of years in a contract would do that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, stawns said: they would just make bonus incentives a bigger part of the system. Say McD has a $5m base salary and an extra $2m for hitting 100 pts, $1m for hitting 40 goals etc etc. they could also raise the max salary for entry level deals that would give a player like McD a significant salary to start off with Rookie deals already have significant bonuses. That is enough protection for the owners. Good GMs use their leverage and keep the deals down but on the elites players they need the freedom to pay the elite guys. If you have an elite player like McDavid or Makar then they should get paid. No need to complicate things further. The cap evens it out in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Rookie deals already have significant bonuses. That is enough protection for the owners. Good GMs use their leverage and keep the deals down but on the elites players they need the freedom to pay the elite guys. If you have an elite player like McDavid or Makar then they should get paid. No need to complicate things further. The cap evens it out in the end. clearly it doesn't back on topic, would you, or anyone, do Severson and Mercer for Miller straight up? Edited July 23, 2022 by stawns 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Everyone says it's a business when GMs make moves in the best interest of the team, but have a problem when players start playing the business side. Now everyone wants rules to cut them at the knees. GMs are under a lot more pressure than the players and have less leverage. I see the players taking advantage of GMs more now than ever. I mean yea get as much as you can but don’t complain when there’s a lockout because player salaries have gotten too inflated. It’s up to players to regulate themselves too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawbone Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said: Well this is the way it should really work. I wished the NHL had a ceiling of a 3-5 year contract. This! So much money wasted on the last few years of long term speculative contracts. Nobody can predict how a player is going to perform over a 7 or 8 year span and what situation his team will be in. I’d be totally fine signing Miller to a big dollar 3 year contact, but of course that’ll never happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Just now, DeNiro said: GMs are under a lot more pressure than the players and have less leverage. I see the players taking advantage of GMs more now than ever. I mean yea get as much as you can but don’t complain when there’s a lockout because player salaries have gotten too inflated. It’s up to players to regulate themselves too. the problem will never be fixed with self regulation, by neither player not GM. They need to be restricted and I see nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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