[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[cripplereh]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Is he scoring at a 30 goal pace or a 20 goal pace. Quit with the nitpicking. He’s had unfortunate injury luck as I have mentioned a few times he’s also had to play in 2 shortened seasons. So is it really fair to complain he hasnt actually hit the number 30?  23 goals in 56 games in a shortened season. Seems to me he coulda kept going and lit the lamp 10-15 more times. He was 1 flippin goal away in his rookie season when an open gate door took his lower back out. The pace he is scoring at is there, is it not? How about he plays a full season or doesnt have to deal with anymore shortened seasons?

Yes in his rookie season and so far has not reached the same potential.Hw has worked hard and end of last season seems to have put it together.But again this year like others have said if he struggles at all I would be trading him.I like BB but he is slow and has not showed he can be a 30 plus goal scorer. Management has said a player we all like might be gone and to me it is BB if he does not no matter how many games he plays get over 30 will get that player.Look back at the track record of management the answer is there.I am all for keeping BB but business is business.If you don't produce you get traded. Make or break season for BB and he knows it.

 

 

[wai_lai416]

9 hours ago, SilentSam said:

I think we’re going to realize we are in a fantastic position to trade one of Horvat or Boeser for a top 2 > 4 upcoming D man..

 

Boeser is lined up to have fantastic point accumulation for 2 months,  and Bo to show how great his F/O strength is below JT and Petey in the line up.

The needs of another team will dictate it.

 

I think ..       EITHER :

                Bo    OR.   Brock 

 

For one of:       R Dahlin  OR   O Power from Buffalo.

 

OR 

 

one of  :  Dobson or Romanov from the Isles.

 

( yes, a lot of people said the Habs would NEVER part with Romanov lol)

 

bo and brock combined wouldn't even get you a Power.. and u ain't getting dobson out of islander with neither brock or bo unless you are adding a 1st + more.. not especially with dobson's team friendly cap hit 

[cripplereh]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

bo and brock combined wouldn't even get you a Power.. and u ain't getting dobson out of islander with neither brock or bo unless you are adding a 1st + more.. not especially with dobson's team friendly cap hit 

You are right but the BB have Carlo on a decent contract and after this year their best center and winger might be gone,so might be a deal there as he would be great with QH.

[SilentSam]

5 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Is he scoring at a 30 goal pace or a 20 goal pace. Quit with the nitpicking. He’s had unfortunate injury luck as I have mentioned a few times he’s also had to play in 2 shortened seasons. So is it really fair to complain he hasnt actually hit the number 30?  23 goals in 56 games in a shortened season. Seems to me he coulda kept going and lit the lamp 10-15 more times. He was 1 flippin goal away in his rookie season when an open gate door took his lower back out. The pace he is scoring at is there, is it not? How about he plays a full season or doesnt have to deal with anymore shortened seasons?

To be honest I’ve been thinking it Brock or Bo , but not both.

 

You had me thinking a bit more in a statement you made about talking more about “positions of strength” when talking about players rather than bashing them.

 

Its an interesting debate,   Are we at a better strength overall at the wing position or the Center position?

That is where the most “weight” would normally be placed from managements thinking in this case one would think?

 

.. and is Bo’s pending contract / unsettled, throwing more weight n to himself to be moved?

 

in general,  I think we are actually in a great position to acquire what we need by using either of those 2 as assets .

 

 

[SilentSam]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

bo and brock combined wouldn't even get you a Power.. and u ain't getting dobson out of islander with neither brock or bo unless you are adding a 1st + more.. not especially with dobson's team friendly cap hit 

Well I’m glad your so sure  

[wai_lai416]

32 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Well I’m glad your so sure  

don't think you need more than an ounce of brain to determine buffalo ain't going to give up their 1st overall pick from a year ago that haven't even played a single game in the NHL for a player that more than likely won't re-sign and/or a player that you determined is overpaid for his cap hit lol.. nor horvat without signficant heavy add is worth a premier rhd with a team friendly contract and still be under team control when it's up. 

[spook007]

43 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

To be honest I’ve been thinking it Brock or Bo , but not both.

 

You had me thinking a bit more in a statement you made about talking more about “positions of strength” when talking about players rather than bashing them.

 

Its an interesting debate,   Are we at a better strength overall at the wing position or the Center position?

That is where the most “weight” would normally be placed from managements thinking in this case one would think?

 

.. and is Bo’s pending contract / unsettled, throwing more weight n to himself to be moved?

 

in general,  I think we are actually in a great position to acquire what we need by using either of those 2 as assets .

 

 

If they choose to go down that route, absolutely true. Either or even both all being considered. Or maybe neither as there are others that may be interesting to other teams. 
Think everyone is in play at this stage for verious reasons except for probably Demko and QH...

[spook007]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Please just read my reply through to the end so you can understand where I am coming from.

 

I guess you didnt understand me. Its not that I am against trading Boeser, its THE APPROACH you guys are using. Bashing him for a down season and then saying “if he does that again”…. Is ignorant and heartless. To actually complain and hold it against him is just soooo morally wrong. 
 

If you approached the idea of trading Boeser as @SilentSamdid when he replied on behalf of you guys, that “he is our best trade asset” I would be more supportive of your reason to move him. Do you understand where I am coming from?

 

If he’s sh!t again, dump his a$$ in the desert

vs

We need a top 4RHD and our best chances to acquire one would be to move Boeser, hes our best asset and teams need 30goal scorers like we need a RHD. 
 

I want to see a positive reason to trade Boeser
Not a negative reason. There’s just too much negativity on these forums and too much negativity in the media surrounding this team.

 

The approach did not sit well with me, as I personally have seen a very good family friend go through a hopeless battle with probably on of the most devastating disease ALS. Its incredibly hard to watch someone go through that.

 

and this is my concern with where some of your heads are at. How people are ready to ridicule this 25 year old kid who went through hell last year. This year isnt going to be much easier for him. Hes going to go through all of his firsts without his dad. On the fathers trip, everyone’s dad will be there, except Duke. All the holidays, Dads birthday, parents anniversary, the anniversary of his death, Fathers day…. All of this, by himself, in another Country, away from his family. Do any of you take ANY of this into consideration with your expectations?

There is a time and place for cutthroat business and there is a time when you separate business from reality. The reality is he has a tough year ahead, it might not look too good to toss him to the wayside if he has mental stress dealing with everything that is coming up this year for him. If Allvin wants to make a trade, do it next off-season or wait til the following TDL. This guy guarantees 25+ goals even when he’s struggling. Be respectful to the players and the players respect you back. Treat ‘em like they’re disposable and they’ll dispose of you. You could run into negotiation issues with other players, trade demands because how management doesnt give a flying f*** about *PEOPLE* they arent just employee’s they are real human beings. Might find it harder to attract UFA’s too. I mean look at how Gillis ran things, hasnt landed a GM position since and struggled to attract UFA’s after the way he dealt with things and no one around the league wanted to do Gillis any favours.

 

 

Let me start by saying I feel sorry for your friend and what he has to go through. 
My own nephew is diagnosed with MND, so I know only too well, how it is to have to deal with illnesses at close hand. Both my parents also died from cancer, so yes I know about loss...

 

If you can find a single post over the years, where I have said 'if he is sh!t again, dump his a$$'...

 

What I said was, this is professional sport.

The reality is, its the GMs job is to find a winning formula for his team. 
He may have to make decisions that makes him look like a heartless SOB, but that is his job. 
 

If he feels trading Brock is what this team needs to win, he will do so. Just like he will with Bo (contractual issues), or with JT had he not signed. If any player doesn't perform to their cap hit or above, they will be discussed regardless of circumstances. Its tough, but its reality.
 

There is not a single person, who doesn't hope Brock will recover from the trauma of having to go through, what he did (especially being so close to his dad, as he was) and secondly (as a fan) obviously keeps finding the back of net on a regular basis. 

Can I just end this with I think Brock will be stronger now, as his dad has peace... Its now up to him to show, what he can be....

 

[SilentSam]

52 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

don't think you need more than an ounce of brain to determine buffalo ain't going to give up their 1st overall pick from a year ago that haven't even played a single game in the NHL for a player that more than likely won't re-sign and/or a player that you determined is overpaid for his cap hit lol.. nor horvat without signficant heavy add is worth a premier rhd with a team friendly contract and still be under team control when it's up. 

Someone shit in your mouth? 
 

why so nasty Rocky?

[Sophomore Jinx]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Oooh somebody is upset. You’re huffin and puffin pretty hard there Huffle Puff.

 

I am not at all against trading Boeser, its the approach that these posters are coming at it with. 
 

Speaking negatively about his last season, is the wrong way to approach it. Saying the reason to trade him if he has “another bad season like that” is disgusting. Its no wonder why the Canuck fan base isnt a very popular one. There is no need for me to repeat myself on what he went through last season. 

First off, here’s how I’ll spin the 19 game avg you say he misses per season.
 

I wont use the 9 game stint that he didnt miss a single game, because it was just a stint and would severely hamper the calculations in my favour of the 19 games you say he misses on average.
 

‘17-18 - 20 games missed

’18-19 - 13 games missed

’19-20 - 12 games missed

‘20-21 - 0 games missed

’21-22 - 11 games missed

 

so lets add those up. 20+13+12+11 = 56

you with me so far?

56/5=11.2

 

 

Boeser has only missed 56 games total. Which over the 5 seasons averages out to 11.2games. Nice try though.

He missed 20 games in his rookie season because of a freak play where one of the gates were left open when he took a hit and suffered a non-displaced fracture of the traverse process in his lower back. I guess thats his fault for not closing the bench door? Definitely injury prone, no one else would get hurt on a play like that.

 

His 3rd season he took a hit from behind in pre-season and was place in concussion protocol and then later had cracked ribs or torn cartilage that sidelined him for 8 weeks. Shouldnt have let Tierney run him from behind. What an idiot.
 

Last season, Pettersson stepped up to throw a hit on a guy that Boeser was already checking and Petey missed his target and took out Boeser’s arm/shoulder. Sounds like Boeser’s fault again

 

Just remember ‘19-20 was a 69 game season for Van and ‘20-21 was a 56 game season (one where Boeser played all 56 games) So your math is waaaaay off bud.

 

just an FYI Petey has also missed an average of 11 games per season and hasnt played one single full season. Boeser at least has one full season under his belt albeit 56 games… it was 30 more than Petey that season and Boeser led the team. Petey has struggled to start the season on time the last 2 seasons. Why wasnt he traded last year? His garbage start arguably cost this team a possible playoff spot last year. But hey Petey gets a free pass because he has no excuses. Boeser should be shipped out because he has a legitimate reason why he struggled. Makes sense.

Upset? LOL, not at all 'lil Bessy, guess it's time to feed the troll again. Seems like YOU are the upset one, charging in to defend Boeser's honour at every opportunity, with your whiny, long, drawn-out tirades. Oh, and yes, my math was off, so I guess you win the internet then, champ.

 

Boeser is definitely a good player, and an even better potential trade piece, and even a Mensa candidate such as yourself should be able to see that there are holes in the lineup that need to be addressed, and that they won't be remedied with "Raymond, Ballard, and a 3rd"...so something has to give, right Skippy? 

 

Anyway, just to be on the safe side, when the team has their next game worn equipment sale, get in early and maybe you can fetch yourself a nice BB6 jock to sniff, or perhaps you can hang it on the handlebars of your 10 speed. 

 

 

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

 

So you’re pickin fly sh!t out of pepper. He hasnt scored 30 goals but hes been on pace for it in almost every season. Is that not living up to the contract? Hes on pace for it, had some bad luck with injuries, an open gate being one of them. A hit from behind another, that put him in concussion protocol and cracked ribs. 
 

You guys are complaining about a guy who was on pace for 26 goals last season with some off ice distractions. Like what????
 

Its the approach you guys have towards a trade that is disgusting. Just reminding you guys about his dad because you seem to forget what happened and talk about “if he has another season like that”

 

change your approach and its better received. 
 

I strongly disagree with reasoning. And like you said its a forum and if you dont like the way I see it, thats your problem.

Your first sentence, well that's ironic.  I ignored your reactions, but Spook is one of the most reasonable posters on this forum and got his hackles up because you took one paragraph deeply personal and ignored the entirety of the post.

 

 

  Folks on here have been talking about trading one Brock or Horvat to fix the D.   "If" means just that, Brock has another season like he did last year, it's very reasonable to think he might be traded.   It's also very reasonable that he could have a median Brock season and still be traded.    Of course we all know the story of Brock.   And like ive said, ive defended Brock dozens of times, last year especially, but you choose to keep this going.    Maybe take a deep breath, and go back and re-read a few pages and then the entirety of the post that set you off.    

 

We can't worry about Brock becoming the next Brett Hull or Cam Neely if he gets traded.   For one it's kind of unrealistic, given his age.   And secondly those trades are extremely rare.   It would be more like trading OJ and have him becoming a Norris winner multiple times, then trading Brock and him becoming a multiple Richard winner.  

 

Brocks predicted to get 55 points by THN.  Accordingly to them, nothing wrong with that, but what you see is what you get.  Who the heck knows!? As far as the bubble, ive also said he was our best forward that year, but it's not by a huge margin.   If you want to really get into it with someone, Vedder is your guy lol, he's got Green like feelings for him. 

 

It's just a forum.  On the trade thread everyone is discussed.   Heck Miller was discussed in every single possible way, and he's be by and far our best forward since he arrived.   217 points in 202 games ... 40ish ahead of second place, EP.     

 

It's a reasonable statement that Brock's future as a Canuck isn't certain.  Same as everyone on the team.  JR recently said as much that the team could very well end up trading a fan favourite, ie core player depending on how this season goes.    Also reasonable.   
 

I like this team and also like Brock, so does Spook.   Pointing out that Brock needs to earn his 6.6ish cap hit ... is reasonable.  Spook is also one of my favourite posters on this site.   If you feel the need to respond then let's be reasonable.    The goal is a cup.   GMs can't afford to be too sentimental.   Part of the mess we currently are in was a result of the owners not wanting MG rebuild.    We still are dealing with those ramifications.   Sure would have been nice, to have a few more Horvats on the team, because Schnieder wasn't the only guy that had massive value back then.   

 

 

 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, SilentSam said:

To be honest I’ve been thinking it Brock or Bo , but not both.

 

You had me thinking a bit more in a statement you made about talking more about “positions of strength” when talking about players rather than bashing them.

 

Its an interesting debate,   Are we at a better strength overall at the wing position or the Center position?

That is where the most “weight” would normally be placed from managements thinking in this case one would think?

 

.. and is Bo’s pending contract / unsettled, throwing more weight n to himself to be moved?

 

in general,  I think we are actually in a great position to acquire what we need by using either of those 2 as assets .

 

 

Yep.   Horvats contract might make the decision for the GM(s)...A trade to TO a for example, take Kerfoot back and retain close to 2 to make the cap work, and see what sort of futures we can get back.   

 

Getting that elusive RHD has to be a two pronged approach, first off we need to draft one that makes it and makes an impact.   That's going to take time.   And secondly we need to do something about it on the team soon, even if it's just a Myers succession plan.   That's likely going to cost us, and quite likely only getting that via free agency.    What team right now, needs centers, and has a stack of RHDs?   Should we trade him to NJ for Marino?  Would they do it and would it even be a good trade ... who knows.   

 

Some teams are light on RW.   Brocks still got good value.   I'm sure we'd find a suitor.   Horvat is the more valuable player as of right now, because of the position he plays ... but he's not under contract.   Brock is.   Some teams could find that more desirable.   Maybe Buffalo would be willing to part with one of their young stud D's.   But don't think either of these guys would do it.   Dahlin and Powers are the D core they will build around.  

 

Sucks that OJ didn't work out or we'd be in a really great spot right now.   Every hockey person knows we need another young D on the team to grow with it.   It's discussed on TV and in print media.   Last year Brock, Horvat and Miller were brought up as possible trade targets going into the TDL ... and i'm pretty sure if circumstances were different they might have pulled the trigger.   But the returns didn't move the needle, we had a new GM and staff analyzing the team, and Bruce "There it IS!" was simply fun to watch. 

 

I like this team.  It's just entering the start of their window.  Factually this year, is the best cap we will get with this core.   At least until it's rebuilt again.  Almost certainly unless some guys come in from the weeds and blow the doors off (Karlsson?) ... 

 

Hoping we make the playoffs and we find out more about what this teams like in the most important season.   First crack at it..well all the young players impressed.  QHs set rookie records ... all-time ones, in only 17 games. 

[IBatch]

20 hours ago, Alflives said:

If Brock has another down season how exactly do we move him?  He’d still have two years left at close to 7 per.  We would very likely have to take back another team’s bad contract so there would be no real gain.  

I'm not so sure.   Brocks down season would still be a lot of goals and about the same assists.   Rhino in Buffalo comes to mind.   It just means the return won't be as good as we might hope, and could very well just be a cap related trade, adding some futures.    Taking back a bad contract ... Well Brock also responded to Bruce well.   Feel that won't change.   Back to himself almost.   46 points in 71 games, plus 23 goals ..yes quite a few on those on the PP.    That's his low bar.    Still low 50's, and likely 26/27 goals.   Teams that struggle to score and ones that could think he's still got room for improvement (entering his prime years),  could take a chance on him. 

 

Worst case is he plays his 70ish games, gets us around 50 points.   Best case he plays 82 games,  scores 35 plus goals etc.   That's a decent range and anyway you slice it, isn't terrible.   Teams won't line up for him worst case, but sure there will be a few that would take a chance as well.  

Edited September 26, 2022 by IBatch

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 hours ago, SilentSam said:

To be honest I’ve been thinking it Brock or Bo , but not both.

 

You had me thinking a bit more in a statement you made about talking more about “positions of strength” when talking about players rather than bashing them.

 

Its an interesting debate,   Are we at a better strength overall at the wing position or the Center position?

That is where the most “weight” would normally be placed from managements thinking in this case one would think?

 

.. and is Bo’s pending contract / unsettled, throwing more weight n to himself to be moved?

 

in general,  I think we are actually in a great position to acquire what we need by using either of those 2 as assets .

 

 

Just musing out loud..but kinda starting to wonder if Pod could be trained as a stellar, dynamic C-option, if we moved Horvat?

 

If you could receive a brilliant young D prospect & a whack of cap space, would say there's an interesting argument in favour.

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Just musing out loud..but kinda starting to wonder if Pod could be trained as a stellar, dynamic C-option, if we moved Horvat?

 

If you could receive a brilliant young D prospect & a whack of cap space, would say there's an interesting argument in favour.

Yes that's possible.   Get him working on face offs regardless, C/W's are valuable. 

[SimplytheBoest]

Not only does this thread prove that Horvat is underrated, but also that his haters are pathetic. They prove their lack of hockey knowledge by the way they talk about him. Apparently he sucks so much we can't overpay him and we need to trade him, yet his value is so awesome certain people think we can get an amazing top-two defenceman for him. So, which is it, haters?

[spook007]

7 minutes ago, SimplytheBoest said:

Not only does this thread prove that Horvat is underrated, but also that his haters are pathetic. They prove their lack of hockey knowledge by the way they talk about him. Apparently he sucks so much we can't overpay him and we need to trade him, yet his value is so awesome certain people think we can get an amazing top-two defenceman for him. So, which is it, haters?

What the heck is wrong with these pages atm?

Every suggestion, speculation or attempt to make the team better is being conceived as being a hater. 
It was the same in the JTM thread...

I was on the fence in the JTM thread, as both sides had good points, and regardless of outcome, it was never our decision in the first place...

Bar a few, who have an right out hard on against various players, JTM, Brock, Bo end the likes very few hates on the players. 
If you think, this is hating on Bo, spare a thought for Myers, OEL, Pearson, Hogs, Poolman, Dickinson and Garland...

 

You better prepare yourself, that somebody may be traded from the roster at some stage. 
 

I actually hope, we make a run with, what we have, but unless Bo and management can come to an agreement, Bo will be dealt. He carries way to much value to let him leave for free.... or at least you'd think so. 

[SimplytheBoest]

2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

What the heck is wrong with these pages atm?

Every suggestion, speculation or attempt to make the team better is being conceived as being a hater. 
It was the same in the JTM thread...

I was on the fence in the JTM thread, as both sides had good points, and regardless of outcome, it was never our decision in the first place...

Bar a few, who have an right out hard on against various players, JTM, Brock, Bo end the likes very few hates on the players. 
If you think, this is hating on Bo, spare a thought for Myers, OEL, Pearson, Hogs, Poolman, Dickinson and Garland...

 

You better prepare yourself, that somebody may be traded from the roster at some stage. 
 

I actually hope, we make a run with, what we have, but unless Bo and management can come to an agreement, Bo will be dealt. He carries way to much value to let him leave for free.... or at least you'd think so. 

Seriously? You are seriously going to ignore the awful posts questioning Bo as a captain and disparaging him and his character constantly? Take your blinders off. There have been AWFUL posts in this thread proving they know nothing.

 

Just because somebody might be traded doesn't mean people should be trashing them.

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, spook007 said:

What the heck is wrong with these pages atm?

Every suggestion, speculation or attempt to make the team better is being conceived as being a hater. 
It was the same in the JTM thread...

I was on the fence in the JTM thread, as both sides had good points, and regardless of outcome, it was never our decision in the first place...

Bar a few, who have an right out hard on against various players, JTM, Brock, Bo end the likes very few hates on the players. 
If you think, this is hating on Bo, spare a thought for Myers, OEL, Pearson, Hogs, Poolman, Dickinson and Garland...

 

You better prepare yourself, that somebody may be traded from the roster at some stage. 
 

I actually hope, we make a run with, what we have, but unless Bo and management can come to an agreement, Bo will be dealt. He carries way to much value to let him leave for free.... or at least you'd think so. 

No doubt.  Myers took over on the Edler abuse, taken a massive amount of heat. Even with the cap not going up, he's sure a lot more palatable then Nurse and Trouba.   Dickie ... all he's got to do is get us 25 points in the bottom six and he's money.   Last year ugh ... now the dialogue is "well we can always waive him"... Poolman - Poolboy ... Bad cap is pretty much the mantra with these guys...Hogs well he's now fighting for his NHL career isn't he.  And rightly so.

 

Things do change year to year.   Horvat offers a ton of stability.  Same as Miller.   Because they play most of the games and get their points.   Part of the reason these guys are in demand, and get paid more as UFAs is because it offers certainty over time.   I absolutely agree, unless we are first overall in our division and seriously kicking butt, Bo will likely be traded if he's not under contract.   And that's ok. 

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, SimplytheBoest said:

Seriously? You are seriously going to ignore the awful posts questioning Bo as a captain and disparaging him and his character constantly? Take your blinders off. There have been AWFUL posts in this thread proving they know nothing.

 

Just because somebody might be traded doesn't mean people should be trashing them.

Oh don't you start.   Just chill.   Already had one person take something completely out of context - the way i read it was the guys that constantly get criticized, nobody is defending them.    And that what's wrong with talking about trading these guys anyways?  He didn't say one word about the silly Horvat vs Miller crap, that's been pushed by just a select few Miller acolytes. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by IBatch