Thread for those who disagree with the Rutherford hire

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just gonna leave this here. I'm sure the OP will ignore it to push his narrative.

 

12 minutes ago, mordekai said:

 

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

33 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

Skinner's contract is in year 3.  There are so many more years that this contract will impact.  If Buffalo was able to rebuild at all and get any good say in the next 4 years, it's still on the books and will completely screw up their cap situation.  At least with Player Name the book on that is closed and we got OEL and Garland back which is looking pretty good so far.  The horrors of that contract are just beginning in Buffalo.

That’s assuming that OEL doesn’t regress at all in 6 years that are left on his deal though. 

[wallstreetamigo]

49 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Yes. I agree 

 

But he's also drafted players that didn't spend either any time in the minors developing, or who have made the jump almost immediately. Hughes did that. Brock did that. Petey did that. Höglander as well. Podkolzin didn't spend any time in Abby developing. I mean, that's 4-5 players that made the jump almost immediately to the Canucks without having to spend any significant time in the minors developing their game. 

 

3 of those were top 10 picks. Kind of expected they would not spend much time in the AHL. Outside of Hoglander, which of those were reasonably expected to?

 

And it’s irrelevant to the point anyway. The system is bare not because those guys are in the nhl. It’s bare because of a combination of trading prospects, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and pitiful development or outright giving up of the ones who should be there. 

[wallstreetamigo]

53 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Why is that? 

 

Because there will be an actual vision and strategy that isn’t going to be sabotaged by ownership to find quick fixes.

[PistolPete13]

9 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

I'm sad that you still believe in that ethic. It's liberating when you realize that its not true 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by PistolPete13

[PistolPete13]

2 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

In case anyone doesn't know that we've been down this road before

 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

3 of those were top 10 picks. Kind of expected they would not spend much time in the AHL. Outside of Hoglander, which of those were reasonably expected to?

 

And it’s irrelevant to the point anyway. The system is bare not because those guys are in the nhl. It’s bare because of a combination of trading prospects, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and pitiful development or outright giving up of the ones who should be there. 

Yeah, well, that was Benning's doing. He wanted to compete ASAP, took shortcuts to getting there, and when he got there, he realized that the team he assembled wasn't entirely that great. Now, I think it has a lot to do with Green's coaching and systems as well. Just with the eye test and systems comparison, Boudreau's already got a far superior "system" than Green, and he's been on the job less than week still. 

 

Höglander is one. Klimovich is another, more recent pick of course. Woo is another. Rathbone is another one (4th rounder, I think?). But other than that, there's not a lot, you're not wrong. We're already without a 2nd rounder this coming draft, unless a trade is incoming, and we can recoup that. I was listening to JPat's podcast tonight, and he was saying how Rutherford made something like 59 trades in a span of a few years. That is crazy! We can expect movement probably this month once he's settled in....or not. 

 

If I was a betting man, I'd be willing to bet that one of the core players could be on the move. My bet would be Boeser moving. Can't afford him moving forward unless he takes a paycut, which would beg the question - why would he do that? 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Because there will be an actual vision and strategy that isn’t going to be sabotaged by ownership to find quick fixes.

Curious to hear from JR what that actual vision and strategy will be moving forward. When is his introduction to the media going to be? 

 

[spook007]

7 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Nick Kypreos is basically laughing at how aggressive Jimmy Rutherford will be. I think Rathbone and our 1st will be gone this year.

If thats all it takes to win the league, please ship them out yesterday....

On a serious note, everybody screws up now and again. How about we see how it unfolds, before we burn him on the bonfire?

Nevertheless well fought for your beliefs, but Rutherford has been hired as the president now, so lets see, how it pans out. 

[IBatch]

Seems to me that Max is pretty into that Pens team.    What about CAR though?   And didn't Rutherford win GM of the year as well?   One of the most experienced  guys out there, and should be a good sounding board for any GM that comes in, plus we got exactly what we needed, a hockey guy to help us.   Aside from Lou, there really isn't a guy out there with his level of years of service.    CAR was a good team ... went to the finals, then went and won a cup.   He went from won winner to another winner, and had his fingerprints all over those teams.   Every single GM makes mistakes, this is something JB defenders brought up often - so much better then Bergevin anyways.  And a lot of others on the list.   Don't worry either...he won't be around that long, probably three years and then retire. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Seems to me that Max is pretty into that Pens team.    What about CAR though?   And didn't Rutherford win GM of the year as well?   One of the most experienced  guys out there, and should be a good sounding board for any GM that comes in, plus we got exactly what we needed, a hockey guy to help us.   Aside from Lou, there really isn't a guy out there with his level of years of service.    CAR was a good team ... went to the finals, then went and won a cup.   He went from won winner to another winner, and had his fingerprints all over those teams.   Every single GM makes mistakes, this is something JB defenders brought up often - so much better then Bergevin anyways.  And a lot of others on the list.   Don't worry either...he won't be around that long, probably three years and then retire. 

His moves were very Benning style. We won't need drafting or player development anymore because we won't have any picks or prospects for 3 years +. He'll trade 2023 and 2024 picks this year. And 2026/7 picks in year 3. And we might have one playoff round to show for it. Just like Toronto under JFJ.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah, well, that was Benning's doing. He wanted to compete ASAP, took shortcuts to getting there, and when he got there, he realized that the team he assembled wasn't entirely that great. Now, I think it has a lot to do with Green's coaching and systems as well. Just with the eye test and systems comparison, Boudreau's already got a far superior "system" than Green, and he's been on the job less than week still. 

 

Höglander is one. Klimovich is another, more recent pick of course. Woo is another. Rathbone is another one (4th rounder, I think?). But other than that, there's not a lot, you're not wrong. We're already without a 2nd rounder this coming draft, unless a trade is incoming, and we can recoup that. I was listening to JPat's podcast tonight, and he was saying how Rutherford made something like 59 trades in a span of a few years. That is crazy! We can expect movement probably this month once he's settled in....or not. 

 

If I was a betting man, I'd be willing to bet that one of the core players could be on the move. My bet would be Boeser moving. Can't afford him moving forward unless he takes a paycut, which would beg the question - why would he do that? 

 

Team can take him to arbitration, but if we do that with Boeser why would he want to stay after it's done (one year at 5-6 makes sense)?   The other option is we sign him long term to a fair deal, and he gets one year at his qualifying offer, the rest more in line with what's he's earned so far, which isn't much more then 6 overall on a term deal.   He's got the rest of the year to turn it around, he should be a 30/30 perrenial player at least ... in fact he should be better then that in his peak prime.    But isn't there yet either.     Miller is going to cost more then we will get back from him but i'd keep him if we could get a team friendly deal in the 7.5 range.  Keeps it up over this season and next, a 16th league wide top scorer with his intangibles is worth 9x 8.   Those are the comps anyways.   Horvat probably 7.5 x 8 given he's a little younger but a valuable player.   You can bet Rutherford could take a glance and figure this stuff out in an instant.     So i won't be surprised either to see at least one of these guys on the block...Thank god we have Garland at least.    The way he plays the rest of the young core should be feeling the pressure to produce, and to not take more then their share of the cap.   You'd hope at least.   So far he's our Mckinnon contract, or even Burrows pre legacy deal.   Nobody on in COL has taken a team friendly deal...Rantanen, Makar...so not holding my breath. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

3 hours ago, spook007 said:

If thats all it takes to win the league, please ship them out yesterday....

On a serious note, everybody screws up now and again. How about we see how it unfolds, before we burn him on the bonfire?

Nevertheless well fought for your beliefs, but Rutherford has been hired as the president now, so lets see, how it pans out. 

Except an org like the Kings won the cup in 2014 and have the deepest prospect pool in the league today. Why ? Because they didn't do a Rutherford.

[MaxVerstappen33]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Team can take him to arbitration, but if we do that with Boeser why would he want to stay after it's done (one year at 5-6 makes sense)?   The other option is we sign him long term to a fair deal, and he gets one year at his qualifying offer, the rest more in line with what's he's earned so far, which isn't much more then 6 overall on a term deal.   He's got the rest of the year to turn it around, he should be a 30/30 perrenial player at least ... in fact he should be better then that in his peak prime.    But isn't there yet either.     Miller is going to cost more then we will get back from him but i'd keep him if we could get a team friendly deal in the 7.5 range.  Keeps it up over this season and next, a 16th league wide top scorer with his intangibles is worth 9x 8.   Those are the comps anyways.   Horvat probably 7.5 x 8 given he's a little younger but a valuable player.   You can bet Rutherford could take a glance and figure this stuff out in an instant.     So i won't be surprised either to see at least one of these guys on the block...Thank god we have Garland at least.    The way he plays the rest of the young core should be feeling the pressure to produce, and to not take more then their share of the cap.   You'd hope at least.   So far he's our Mckinnon contract, or even Burrows pre legacy deal.   Nobody on in COL has taken a team friendly deal...Rantanen, Makar...so not holding my breath. 

If Rutherford decides he wants Boeser, he'll get 7.5 million over 8 and i couldn't rule out 8 million either 

 

We have a gunslinger in town. It's all different now 

Edited December 10, 2021 by MaxVerstappen33

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

His moves were very Benning style. We won't need drafting or player development anymore because we won't have any picks or prospects for 3 years +. He'll trade 2023 and 2024 picks this year. And 2026/7 picks in year 3. And we might have one playoff round to show for it. Just like Toronto under JFJ.

I read your post.   Did you include anything that he did right though?   Like win two cups?   PIT needed a shake up, took them a long time before the cap went up high enough to win again with Crosby and Malkin (although they did win with them on their second deals in 2009).    CAR.    Did some pretty good work there too.    I wouldn't worry too much (yet).    But get your concerned and acknowledge that.   

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

If Rutherford decides he wants Boeser, he'll get 7.5 million over 8 and i couldn't rule out 8 million either 

That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.   If he decides he wants Boeser, that hopefully means he's turned the corner.  

[IBatch]

lut

7 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Except an org like the Kings won the cup in 2014 and have the deepest prospect pool in the league today. Why ? Because they didn't do a Rutherford.

Blake was smart.  He didn't re-tool endlessly like Wilson did/does in SJ, and the Rangers like to do as well until their rapid rebuild/re-tool by adding Trouba/Zinbanejad/Panarin and winning the lottery.   Won't be enough either (NYR).   Thankfully he had players that weren't claused up to work with...Pearson, TT and Muzzin.   Doubt it will be enough, but it will give that old stale core a chance until the real rebuild comes in later.   Blake did it right for sure. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

9 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Except an org like the Kings won the cup in 2014 and have the deepest prospect pool in the league today. Why ? Because they didn't do a Rutherford.

Why do you think LA has the "deepest" pool in the league?   They don't.   It's a good one but not tops.   

[MaxVerstappen33]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I read your post.   Did you include anything that he did right though?   Like win two cups?   PIT needed a shake up, took them a long time before the cap went up high enough to win again with Crosby and Malkin (although they did win with them on their second deals in 2009).    CAR.    Did some pretty good work there too.    I wouldn't worry too much (yet).    But get your concerned and acknowledge that.   

I guess assembling the Bonino line was good. Bonino worked good in the Eastern conference. Value for value was it good ? I dunno. When you catch lightning in a bottle and win then all of your mistakes wash away.

 

That was just never my style and not the way i grew up. I'd prefer GM's like Nonis , Gillis or Benning , who rode the line almost perfectly even though they knew they will eventually get fired. Instead of pushing ALL of their chips in at once. I just don't think it's worth it.

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

His moves were very Benning style. We won't need drafting or player development anymore because we won't have any picks or prospects for 3 years +. He'll trade 2023 and 2024 picks this year. And 2026/7 picks in year 3. And we might have one playoff round to show for it. Just like Toronto under JFJ.

Why in the world, would you expect Rutherford to look at this team, and assume that it's remotely like that PIT team?   He won two cups and an award did he not?   Relax.