Canucks to be limited to 50% capacity at Rogers Arena until end of January

[Joe_Kerr]

Just now, JM_ said:

 no because thats a silly analogy. 

How? It was their choice to get to that weight. Its clearly proven being overweight is highly unhealthy

[Joe_Kerr]

I think they should only let in vaccinated people then they would all be protected..................... wait a minute

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Joe_Kerr said:

How? It was their choice to get to that weight. Its clearly proven being overweight is highly unhealthy

if you're overweight thats a personal problem. 

 

The actual hard core anti-vax by choice is only a small % of us. And yet, we see so many people, very often rural and/or right leaning politically, trying to defend them. Why is that?

 

The anti-vaxers need to drag people into their fight by creating false analogies and "sides' to this thing. There's so few of them, they need to bring others into their fight with fears of "freedoms" or slippery slopes or bad analogies like what about overweight people. 

 

When you stick to the basic facts, the anti-vaxxers have no legitimate argument to make. 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by JM_

[Xanlet]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

if you're overweight thats a personal problem. 

 

The actual hard core anti-vax by choice is only a small % of us. And yet, we see so many people, very often rural and/or right leaning politically, trying to defend them. Why is that?

 

The anti-vaxers need to drag people into their fight by creating false analogies and "sides' to this thing. There's so few of them, they need to bring others into their fight with fears of "freedoms" or slippery slopes or bad analogies like what about overweight people. 

 

When you stick to the basic facts, the anti-vaxxers have no legitimate argument to make. 

 

We live in a free society. People are free to decide what medicine goes into their body. If you want to live in a dictatorship, head on over to North Korea, I hear it's great there.

 

As others have mentioned, the vaccine is not effective at stopping the spread, so the only advantage of the shot is to lower symptoms and not take up a bed if you get sick, but as you just stated about obese people, you aren't concerned over that, so there should be no issue.

[JM_]

25 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

We live in a free society. People are free to decide what medicine goes into their body. If you want to live in a dictatorship, head on over to North Korea, I hear it's great there.

great, more false analogies. While North Korea does have a nice ski hill, you're wrong about Canada. 

 

We don't live in a free society. We live in one with the rule of law, which gives us rights and privileges.

 

25 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

 

As others have mentioned, the vaccine is not effective at stopping the spread, so the only advantage of the shot is to lower symptoms and not take up a bed if you get sick, but as you just stated about obese people, you aren't concerned over that, so there should be no issue.

those people are wrong. Vaccines do help stop the spread as the viral load can be lower in vaccinated people. 

 

I'd really ask yourself why you are so aligned with an extremist, fringe pov?

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by JM_

[Bure_of_94]

53 minutes ago, JM_ said:

great, more false analogies. While North Korea does have a nice ski hill, you're wrong about Canada. 

 

We don't live in a free society. We live in one with the rule of law, which gives us rights and privileges.

 

those people are wrong. Vaccines do help stop the spread as the viral load can be lower in vaccinated people. 

 

I'd really ask yourself why you are so aligned with an extremist, fringe pov?

 

While some of your points I agree with, I think you still have to ask yourself at what cost? I am very much for proven long term vaccines, but I ask you are you concerned at all about governments waiving the liability of drug manufacturing companies and do you know why they were put in place in the first place? There is currently no repercussions or consequence that would encourage the pharmaceutical industry to make sure that the long term benefits of these new vaccines don’t outweigh the short term benefits. 
 

 I’ll help you out with the reason why the law requires long term testing for drugs and vaccines. It was because the original attempt at creating a polio vaccine killed 40,000 out of 40,000 within 2 years of injection. The laws were then created to make sure that everyone does their due diligence when trying to medicate people to give them health. 
 

I understand that there is antivaxxers that are purely crazy, but there is also many rational people that just want to give it more time to make sure that conditions in previous Drugs/vaccines don’t reoccur this time,  things such as lung failure, hepatic conditions, renal collapse, cardiac conditions and blood cancer. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a portion of rational, intelligent society to wait a little bit longer to see. 
 

 For all we know there could be a health crisis far more great than a virus that the fuse is already lit for, but the ignition would take place for another year. That being said of you want to encourage the vaccine hesitant to become vaccinated, don’t punish, threaten, coerce, shame them into doing it. Bring back liability to the drug companies and chemists developing it, bring back regulatory checks and balances to the government agencies overseeing the process. If you do that, I’m sure you’d see a 99.9% vaccination rate. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Bure_of_94

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

While some of your points I agree with, I think you still have to ask yourself at what cost? I am very much for proven long term vaccines, but I ask you are you concerned at all about governments waiving the liability of drug manufacturing companies and do you know why they were put in place in the first place? There is currently no repercussions or consequence that would encourage the pharmaceutical industry to make sure that the long term benefits of these new vaccines don’t outweigh the short term benefits. 

I'm not worried, no. I've been working in medical device development for 20 years and am very comfortable with the decisions as covid has gone along, but I also know thats far from most peoples work life. I think the way risks have been assessed has been pretty good. The Astra Zenica and J&J vaccines were unfortunate for sure, but given what we knew at the time was reasonable. Pretty rough for the few folks that paid the price tho. 

 

21 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

 

 I’ll help you out with the reason why the law requires long term testing for drugs and vaccines. It was because the original attempt at creating a polio vaccine killed 40,000 out of 40,000 within 2 years of injection. The laws were then created to make sure that everyone does their due diligence when trying to medicate people to give them health. 
 

I understand that there is antivaxxers that are purely crazy, but there is also many rational people that just want to give it more time to make sure that conditions in previous Drugs/vaccines don’t reoccur this time,  things such as lung failure, hepatic conditions, renal collapse, cardiac conditions and blood cancer. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a portion of rational, intelligent society to wait a little bit longer to see. 
 

 For all we know there could be a health crisis far more great than a virus that the fuse is already lit for, but the ignition would take place for another year. That being said of you want to encourage the vaccine hesitant to become vaccinated, don’t punish, threaten, coerce, shame them into doing it. Bring back liability to the drug companies and chemists developing it, bring back regulatory checks and balances to the government agencies overseeing the process. If you do that, I’m sure you’d see a 99.9% vaccination rate. 

I'm totally on board with corporate liability in this, it has to be part of a safe system. 

[Canucklehead53]

6 hours ago, JM_ said:

why should I respect anyone who is willing to make others sick? yes its a small % of people, but they've lost that consideration.

 

 

 

So do you feel the same way about someone who chooses to get behind the wheel  drunk and kills someone? what if that someone was a family member?

 

things like sports, etc. are almost always personal consequences. If your actions can have serious public consequences thats a different animal.

 

what needs to stop is people acting like they are being discriminated against if they choose not to be vaccinated. Those are the people myself and others are mad at. Thankfully thats a small group.

 

Respectfully I am going to disagree with your stance. I don't feel it is right to spread hate towards one another just because of different views and opinions. 

 

You don't have to respect anyone, but you absolutely should show them respect....or at least that is how I feel. 

 

Covid is not killing to the extent we all feared. The problem with covid is the strain on our health care system. All those other choices (including sports) puts a strain on the health care system as well so everyone taking shots right now should look at their own choices as well. 

 

To be honest, even at 50% capacity people attending Canucks games are bound to be part of the problem even though they need to be vaccinated. And don't get me wrong, if I lived closer and could afford it, I would be going to the games still. 

 

The one idea I saw that I thought was interesting is that if people choose not be vaccinated (not a medical or religious reason) then no Covid financial benefits aka no sick pay and what not. 

 

We all want to get through this, lets focus on common ground. 

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Canucklehead53 said:

Respectfully I am going to disagree with your stance. I don't feel it is right to spread hate towards one another just because of different views and opinions. 

 

You don't have to respect anyone, but you absolutely should show them respect....or at least that is how I feel. 

 

Covid is not killing to the extent we all feared. The problem with covid is the strain on our health care system. All those other choices (including sports) puts a strain on the health care system as well so everyone taking shots right now should look at their own choices as well. 

 

To be honest, even at 50% capacity people attending Canucks games are bound to be part of the problem even though they need to be vaccinated. And don't get me wrong, if I lived closer and could afford it, I would be going to the games still. 

 

The one idea I saw that I thought was interesting is that if people choose not be vaccinated (not a medical or religious reason) then no Covid financial benefits aka no sick pay and what not. 

 

We all want to get through this, lets focus on common ground. 

 

The issue is sometimes there are people with whom there is no common ground. These people are a tiny minority of us.

 

I do agree wholeheartedly that we need to show respect for most people, but a small few of us just don't deserve it, as they just don't care about you or anyone else but themselves. 

 

Thankfully tho its a very small group. 

 

[khay]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

great, more false analogies. While North Korea does have a nice ski hill, you're wrong about Canada. 

 

We don't live in a free society. We live in one with the rule of law, which gives us rights and privileges.

 

those people are wrong. Vaccines do help stop the spread as the viral load can be lower in vaccinated people. 

 

I'd really ask yourself why you are so aligned with an extremist, fringe pov?

 

Most people don't understand what freedom means.

 

To them, it just means, "I'm gonna do whatever the f*ck I want. It's a free country."

 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, khay said:

Most people don't understand what freedom means.

 

To them, it just means, "I'm gonna do whatever the f*ck I want. It's a free country."

 

we're starting from less than zero with people like that.

 

I mean, you could do that if you go out, get a homestead somewhere maybe and live alone.

[Xanlet]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

 

We don't live in a free society. We live in one with the rule of law, which gives us rights and privileges.

 

One of those rights is for each individual to be able to refuse medical procedures. In fact, that is a fundamental human right which is widely recognized. Why are you so very willing to do away with that? Even the most cursory knowledge of history should be enough for everyone to know why it is an important right to protect.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Xanlet said:

One of those rights is for each individual to be able to refuse medical procedures. In fact, that is a fundamental human right which is widely recognized. Why are you so very willing to do away with that? Even the most cursory knowledge of history should be enough for everyone to know why it is an important right to protect.

Why do you create straw men?

 

No one said that your right of consent should be taken away. Have at it, if thats your decision.

[Xanlet]

Just now, JM_ said:

Why do you create straw men?

 

No one said that your right of consent should be taken away. Have at it, if thats your decision.

You have advocated for extreme punishments (revoking access to the public medical system among other things). Such a severe form of coercion is contrary to that right. I might ask you, why are you so in favor of increasing the authoritarian power of the government?

 

I might also add that the manufacturers of this vaccine themselves were unwilling to accept liability for potential side effects, even so far as to refuse to roll out the vaccine unless indemnified, yet you want it to be forcibly mandated on the entire population. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but don't kid yourself that this isn't political.

[JM_]

35 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

You have advocated for extreme punishments (revoking access to the public medical system among other things).

extremists require an extreme response sometimes. Anti-vaxxers that want to put people in harms way are extremists.

 

35 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

 

Such a severe form of coercion is contrary to that right.

nope, not legally.

 

35 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

 

might ask you, why are you so in favor of increasing the authoritarian power of the government?

never said that. Try doing this without straw men.

 

35 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

 

I might also add that the manufacturers of this vaccine themselves were unwilling to accept liability for potential side effects, even so far as to refuse to roll out the vaccine unless indemnified, yet you want it to be forcibly mandated on the entire population.

thats not quite accurate. They were asked by gov'ts to fast track vaccines. To do that they needed reasonable assurance that they would not be held responsible for reasonably unforeseen issues. They are still on the hook for acts under their control.

 

And again with the straw man. Don't take it if you don't want to, I don't care.

 

35 minutes ago, Xanlet said:

 

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but don't kid yourself that this isn't political.

Nope you are the one making it political. There's nothing political about basic vaccine science.

 

The only ones that try to drag people into thinking this is political are the avti-vaxxers. If they don't, they have almost no support.

 

[GB5]

6 hours ago, Joe_Kerr said:

Covid is clearly worse if you are overweight. So you agree that overweight people shouldnt be aloud in to the hospitals either? 

I have a lot of problems with this thought process.

 

Number 1 is you are incorrect in thinking covid is worse on overweight people. 

 

Numer 2 is if an overweight person had the been given a choice if taking two shots in the arm to miraculously get back into a healthy range, logic dictates most would do so.

 

Number 3, you imy that being overweight is a choice for those that are. Rarely is it a choice, there is usually an underlying health condition that affect such folks.

[ABNucksfan]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:56 PM, HockeyHarry said:

? I don’t see any humor in that….crazy right wing anti vax propaganda crap. 
 

Just wear your f’n mask. Its not to protect you…its too protect others. Selfish people don’t understand that concept.

Lol. Your making the joke funnier… bet you want to defund police too. 

[Bure_of_94]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

The issue is sometimes there are people with whom there is no common ground. These people are a tiny minority of us.

 

I do agree wholeheartedly that we need to show respect for most people, but a small few of us just don't deserve it, as they just don't care about you or anyone else but themselves. 

 

Thankfully tho its a very small group. 

 

Agreed. I think the worst is those that travel out of province or country during a pandemic. Those are super spreaders and no one should be travelling during a pandemic if they care about others. 

[GreyHatnDart]

On 12/17/2021 at 5:05 PM, Alflives said:

  Do you use Advil or Tylenol?  Those have 1000’s of related deaths every year here in Canada.  These Covid vaccines are incredibly safe and super effective.  There’s a lot of craperolla information on the Internet.  Idiots like Seth Rogan (and his stupid followers) and Fox News (now there’s a classic example of an oxymoron) are not places to get information.  Talk to your doctor.  And get vaccinated!  This new variant- Omicron- is super infectious, and if you’re not vaccinated you’re friggin’’ asking for it.  Even though you’re a Hab’s fan, I don’t want you to get this virus while not being protected from the vaccine.  Really, you need to protect yourself.  Get vaccinated, and now!  Omicron is going to definitely get you.  

There is nothing to be "gotten" from Omicron. It's actually societies exit out from this pandemic. A very mild strain that will allow immune systems to properly fight against Covid. 

 

Being vaxxed is not an exit strategy and the numbers in Ontario for example are reflecting that.

[Joe_Kerr]

2 hours ago, GB5 said:

I have a lot of problems with this thought process.

 

Number 1 is you are incorrect in thinking covid is worse on overweight people. 

 

Numer 2 is if an overweight person had the been given a choice if taking two shots in the arm to miraculously get back into a healthy range, logic dictates most would do so.

 

Number 3, you imy that being overweight is a choice for those that are. Rarely is it a choice, there is usually an underlying health condition that affect such folks.

1. That is not incorrect If you are old or obese those are the number 1 indicator that covid might be tough on you...might

2. I dont have a problem with anyone getting the shot. But forcing and banning people from things for not getting it is very wrong

3. good one