[Proposal] Yikes, Petey gets traded...?

[HKSR]

To NYI:

Pettersson

Rathbone

 

To VAN:

Dobson

Raty

 

VAN does this to give Petey a fresh start, but also acquiring a young bluechip RHD that can pair with Hughes for years.  They also acquire a good prospect centreman Raty that could likely slot into the 4th line next year for development and work his way up.  Raty clearly has plenty of potential to become a Top 6 centreman.  Unloading Petey also allows the Canucks to keep Miller, Bo, and Boeser.

 

NYI does this as it gives them a really solid 1-2 punch down the middle of Barzal and Petey to build around.  JG Pageau can then move down to the 3rd line giving the NYI tons of depth down the middle.  Having Barzal should take a lot of pressure off Petey and allow him to regain his confidence.  Rathbone is also no slouch as he's a very solid defenceman that just needs some more development time.  NYI can afford to lose Dobson as they have Pulock and Mayfield, not to mention a very good prospect in Bode Wilde coming up on the RHD side as well. 

[nameci]

If Barzal isn’t coming back, then Petey is not going to the island.

[khay]

3 minutes ago, nameci said:

If Barzal isn’t coming back, then Petey is not going to the island.

Yep. If we are trading a young player with potential to be the franchise center, we need one coming back our way. JT Miller is our 1C but he may not be around much longer and he may not be able to sustain his current level of play for the next 5-7 years.

 

Young players go through dips all the time. Look at it long term. If Petey goes back to his previous offensive output, improves on faceoffs, continues to be defensively responsible, then we have a very good 1C for the next 7-10 years.

 

"Yikes" is my reaction to this proposal as in "Yikes, if this trade goes through, there will be a riot."

 

 

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, nameci said:

If Barzal isn’t coming back, then Petey is not going to the island.

I don't think people realize what Noah Dobson is worth. 

 

He's a 6'4" RHD that is 22 years old on pace for 16 goals and 44pts.  He can play in all situations and eat up huge minutes.  He's also really mobile and an excellent skater.

 

Petey is what it would take to land him.  If Petey gets back to his game, he's a 1C.  Dobson is making his way up into a 1D role. 

 

Honestly, if anything, NYI would say NO to this deal.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, khay said:

Yep. If we are trading a young player with potential to be the franchise center, we need one coming back our way. JT Miller is our 1C but he may not be around much longer and he may not be able to sustain his current level of play for the next 5-7 years.

 

Young players go through dips all the time. Look at it long term. If Petey goes back to his previous offensive output, improves on faceoffs, continues to be defensively responsible, then we have a very good 1C for the next 7-10 years.

 

"Yikes" is my reaction to this proposal as in "Yikes, if this trade goes through, there will be a riot."

 

 

See my post above.  Do you realize how much Dobson is worth?  If he adds some strength and physicality to his game, he'll be a potential Norris level RHD.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by HKSR

[khay]

24 minutes ago, HKSR said:

See my post above.  Do you realize how much Dobson is worth?  If he adds some strength and physicality to his game, he'll be a potential Norris level RHD.

 

Potential Norris? Essentially on his way to matching Makar and Fox?  Didn't realize he was at that level.

 

If true, I'd say the value is not far off in this proposal. I take my "yikes" back.

 

But I still think we wait and see? Dobson is putting in a decent season but he is still far from reaching Norris level? I'd like to see him put together at least two seasons of 15+ goals and 40+ points while demonstrating solid two way play.

 

If Petey gets back to his level, he's a franchise center with potential for Selke nominations down the road. And if Dobson continues his upward trajectory, then he is a 1RHD with potential Norris nominations. Both players are quite a bit off from reaching that level though, and while Petey has proven what he is capable of, this is Dobson's first season of prominence. 

 

Selke level 1C for Norris caliber 1RHD seems like a fair deal for both sides and it makes more sense for us if we manage to draft a 1C to take over within the next two years. If Dobson reaches Norris level before that, well then the Islanders will reject the trade. But I'd rather err on the side of caution and bet on Petey becoming Selke level 1C as someone that is more proven than Dobson becoming Norris winner within 2 years as he is less proven.

 

Speaking of 2018 draft, some really good defencemen came out from that draft. I remember Dahlin was rated #1 and Hughes, Dobson, Bouchard, and Boqvist were all rated highly. Turns out all four of these guys are legit NHL players and in the case of Hughes, already a superstar.

 

[Coconuts]

Even if you consider Dobson's worth, the fact remains that we've nobody in the system to replace Pettersson, assuming current and incoming management still view him as a center. I understand that you've got to give to get, but I dunno. If I were New York I'd just bet on Barzal bouncing back. When healthy New York already has a good forward group, but between injuries and Covid it hasn't been a good season for them. 

 

Also, if you look at New York's defense, I question why they'd be moving Dobson in the first place. The only D they have signed long term right now are Pulock and Pelech. Mayfield is 29. At their age Greene and Chara probably won't be back, and if they are, it won't be long. You'd think he'd be a piece they're adamant on keeping, he's the piece most likely to be their next young top 4D. 

 

I just don't see this deal working for both sides. 

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Even if you consider Dobson's worth, the fact remains that we've nobody in the system to replace Pettersson, assuming current and incoming management still view him as a center. I understand that you've got to give to get, but I dunno. If I were New York I'd just bet on Barzal bouncing back. When healthy New York already has a good forward group, but between injuries and Covid it hasn't been a good season for them. 

 

Also, if you look at New York's defense, I question why they'd be moving Dobson in the first place. The only D they have signed long term right now are Pulock and Pelech. Mayfield is 29. At their age Greene and Chara probably won't be back, and if they are, it won't be long. You'd think he'd be a piece they're adamant on keeping, he's the piece most likely to be their next young top 4D. 

 

I just don't see this deal working for both sides. 

If Petey is moved, we keep Miller.  Miller is 28 years old.  He likely has at least 5 solid years of good hockey left in him.

We don't have ANY RHD like Dobson anywhere in our system.  Heck, even finding a RHD in our system is hard enough, let alone one of Dobson's calibre. 

 

As I mentioned, NYI have Bode Wilde coming up through the system.  He's a heckuva prospect in his own right.  6'3" RHD with a booming shot, great passing, and also quite mobile.  He has Top 4 written all over him.  So with Pulock taking 1RHD, and Mayfield taking 2RHD for a few more years, Wilde can slowly move from 3RHD to 2RHD in that time frame.  Otherwise, he'll be in the same situation as Rathbone here as he'll be sitting behind Dobson (Hughes) and Pulock (OEL). 

 

Petey gives NYI a strong 1-2 punch for years.  Nelson is 30yo and Pageau is turning 30 this year as well.  They need help down the middle more than RHD if they want to remain competitive for the next 5 to 10 years.

[Alflives]

Petey is a much better player than Barzel, especially without the puck.  So any Petey trade to the Islanders would require both Barzel and Dobson coming back.  Otherwise, JR would just hang up the phone.  

[HKSR]

Just now, Alflives said:

Petey is a much better player than Barzel, especially without the puck.  So any Petey trade to the Islanders would require both Barzel and Dobson coming back.  Otherwise, JR would just hang up the phone.  

Alf, once I saw you coming into this thread, I knew it was all over for the busteroo bansais on the NYI...

[Coconuts]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If Petey is moved, we keep Miller.  Miller is 28 years old.  He likely has at least 5 solid years of good hockey left in him.

We don't have ANY RHD like Dobson anywhere in our system.  Heck, even finding a RHD in our system is hard enough, let alone one of Dobson's calibre. 

 

As I mentioned, NYI have Bode Wilde coming up through the system.  He's a heckuva prospect in his own right.  6'3" RHD with a booming shot, great passing, and also quite mobile.  He has Top 4 written all over him.  So with Pulock taking 1RHD, and Mayfield taking 2RHD for a few more years, Wilde can slowly move from 3RHD to 2RHD in that time frame.  Otherwise, he'll be in the same situation as Rathbone here as he'll be sitting behind Dobson (Hughes) and Pulock (OEL). 

 

Petey gives NYI a strong 1-2 punch for years.  Nelson is 30yo and Pageau is turning 30 this year as well.  They need help down the middle more than RHD if they want to remain competitive for the next 5 to 10 years.

I agree that we don't have any top quality RD in the system and that it's a need that needs to be addressed, but I'm still not convinced NYI would make this trade. 

 

Mayfield has one more season at 1.45M before he's a UFA, Dobson's an RFA at the end of this season. They're going to have to pay one, or both of these guys, and it's clear which of the two has higher upside. It's also a Trotz coached team, which typically emphasizes defense. Even with a player like Wilde in the system, I'm not convinced they'd want to be moving out young D. If anything they'd probably move Wilde over Dobson, given there's only a year between them and that Dobson's had three seasons of NHL seasoning now. Maybe there could be something built around Wilde, but I'm not convinced they'd be interesting in moving Dobson. 

 

I also question how the cap would work, given NYI's got 10M tied up between IR and LTIR, and then another 6M currently non-roster with Nelson. Pulock and Palmieri are tied up with term, they'll be back. Bringing in Pettersson would require additional movement. The lion's share of NYI's cap space is already allocated to forwards, even if they could use a younger center. 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Coconuts

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I agree that we don't have any top quality RD in the system and that it's a need that needs to be addressed, but I'm still not convinced NYI would make this trade. 

 

Mayfield has one more season at 1.45M before he's a UFA, Dobson's an RFA at the end of this season. They're going to have to pay one, or both of these guys, and it's clear which of the two has higher upside. It's also a Trotz coached team, which typically emphasizes defense. Even with a player like Wilde in the system, I'm not convinced they'd want to be moving out young D. If anything they'd probably move Wilde over Dobson, given there's only a year between them and that Dobson's had three seasons of NHL seasoning now. Maybe there could be something built around Wilde, but I'm not convinced they'd be interesting in moving Dobson. 

 

I also question how the cap would work, given NYI's got 10M tied up between IR and LTIR, and then another 6M currently non-roster with Nelson. Pulock and Palmieri are tied up with term, they'll be back. Bringing in Pettersson would require additional movement. The lion's share of NYI's cap space is already allocated to forwards, even if they could use a younger center. 

 

 

TBH, I'm not convinced myself either lmao.  With the way Petey is playing, I think NYI would just hang up.  I'm just assuming they see Petey as just having a slump, and look at him as a legitimate PPG centreman.

 

I think right now, Dobson is worth more than Petey by a fair margin.

 

[Nucker 67]

That's a lot of salary for NYI to take on

 

to NYI - Petey, Rathbone and Poolman

to VAN - Barzal and Dobson

 

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

TBH, I'm not convinced myself either lmao.  With the way Petey is playing, I think NYI would just hang up.  I'm just assuming they see Petey as just having a slump, and look at him as a legitimate PPG centreman.

 

I think right now, Dobson is worth more than Petey by a fair margin.

 

Pettersson's current value is tough to gauge, I agree. I personally think he'll bounce back, if not this season than next, after a summer of training and an actual camp. But I really have no idea how Rutherford or other GM's view him, I just know said he isn't playing like the player we saw a couple seasons back. 

 

You very well could be right, I think Dobson is an incredibly valuable piece for NYI. Young top 4RD are tough to come by. 

[Johnny Torts]

Dobson and his 35 points career points right.

 

what the &^@#

[khay]

22 minutes ago, HKSR said:

TBH, I'm not convinced myself either lmao.  With the way Petey is playing, I think NYI would just hang up.  I'm just assuming they see Petey as just having a slump, and look at him as a legitimate PPG centreman.

 

I think right now, Dobson is worth more than Petey by a fair margin.

 

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me how much potential is valued around here.

 

Dobson hasn't even had one full season under his belt and yet his worth is more than Petey by a fair margin? lol

 

Petey sucks now and that made him look like a piece of garbage to a lot of people here. Might as well trade him for a bag of pucks and get rid of his cap space.

 

[Alflives]

33 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

That's a lot of salary for NYI to take on

 

to NYI - Petey, Rathbone and Poolman

to VAN - Barzal and Dobson

 

take out Bone and this is a decently fair trade for us.  

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, Johnny Torts said:

Dobson and his 35 points career points right.

 

what the &^@#

 

53 minutes ago, khay said:

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me how much potential is valued around here.

 

Dobson hasn't even had one full season under his belt and yet his worth is more than Petey by a fair margin? lol

 

Petey sucks now and that made him look like a piece of garbage to a lot of people here. Might as well trade him for a bag of pucks and get rid of his cap space.

 

Maybe take a closer look at Dobson before jumping to conclusions...

 

As of today, prorated to 35 games, Dobson would have more points than Petey... as a defenceman.  He would be 5th in scoring on the Canucks, ONE point behind Bo Horvat. 

He'd also be on pace for 16 goals, tied for Podkolzin for 6th overall on the Canucks.

 

A 22 year old, 6'4" mobile, all-situations, right-handed defenceman would be 5th in team scoring.  Think about that for a second.  This isn't potential.  This is the defenceman he was projected to be.  An elite franchise defenceman.

 

Did I also mention he plays 20min+ per game?  Yes, he eats big minutes too. 

 

Anyways, you can quote me on this:  "Dobson will be one of the best RHD in the entire league within 3 years -- by 2024-25"

 

[hammertime]

I think the Canucks would do well in a trade of this nature if they were to move Pete. Dobson is a great target. I don't think NYI would be interested. The players are trending in different directions. 

 

That being said I don't think now is the time to move Pete. As frustrated as I am with his play and I have been very critical of his attitude/body language at times. It's not like his skill just evaporated. He's a hyper competitive person he will bounce back after this healthy helping of humble pie. I'm very much reminded of watching the Sedins struggle at 23yo.

 

If JR is true to his word in regards to recognizing what cycle we're in, and is committed to opening our window in 2 years. We simply don't have the C depth to trade Pete. So as much as we need a top pair RHD I think we create a greater hole in our depth chart.

 

 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Petey is a much better player than Barzel, especially without the puck.  So any Petey trade to the Islanders would require both Barzel and Dobson coming back.  Otherwise, JR would just hang up the phone.  

just can't see a Petey-Dobson deal. Miller-Dobson makes more sense to me.