[PGT] Arizona Coyotes at Vancouver Canucks | Apr. 14, 2022

[Odd.]

29 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Well you're acting obtuse like usual just to destroy a conversation that's completely valid. It's not that hard of a task as I explained.

 

Surely you don't think 18-23 year old RD's are like unicorns and don't exist in the NHL? Literally every team in the NHL would want Miller and anyone of these players could be included in a trade. Some more likely than others.

 

You have absolutely zero vision and show zero understanding of the NHL landscape. As stawns asked is this the first year you've watched hockey because that's what it seems like? Every year we all wake up to eye opening and out of the blue trades by NHL teams. This is a game in the service industry with 32 teams constantly gambling. It's not the stock market where remaining status quo is just fine.

 

You're acting like people are saying we're just supposed to go to the defenceman store and there are shelves and shelves of 23 yr old stars. It's not the case and these trades are not easy or readily available. They take time, patience, careful planning, hard work, and understanding, which you seem very short on. Just because something is challenging doesn't mean you should just give up on it. I would imagine a trade might bring back players no one even though of.

 

Certainly JT Miller at $5.25mil is worth a decent price in the trade market and in the realm of possibility for a younger developing RD. This is what Allvin's job is. Yikes. I can't believe I'm even having this dumb of a conversation.

Why would someone asking for an example be obtuse to the discussion? He’s valid in asking for an example. You don’t just bring up an open ended question and tell the guy to search it up when asked for an example. It’s kind of dumb

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Sure. But your should be able to get lower risk, higher ceiling players for Miller. As well as additional pieces. All while not saddling the club to a bad, long term, high cap contract.

I've said it a number of times, I'm not opposed to a hockey trade for established players. 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

This is a bit of a silly question though. There's probably a bunch of teams who "might". It's just simply not a "logical" move. Yet teams make "illogical" moves like that every year. Suddenly they trade for a guy they're forced to clear cap etc to retain. Happens all the time.

 

And it's because you don't win cups making logical "safe" moves. To win a cup you inherently have to gamble and take chances. You can't fence sit your way to a cup. You gamble and attempt to make high leverage, high risk moves to push yourself to the top.

sure, you gamble when you're in tank mode. You load up on potential at the right time. 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'm honestly not sure what you're even talking about anymore

I'll give you a hint. 18-23 yr old RD's are like the Easter Bunny.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He thinks they are a fairly tale and doesn't believe in them. 

[Smashian Kassian]

20 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Do you think there is even a single team that would trade something like a late 1st, a-prospect and roster player for Miller who also would sign him to a long term deal? Can you name one team?

 

Philly? 

 

Edit: LA?

Edited April 17, 2022 by Smashian Kassian

[Nucker 67]

Benning seemed (to me anyway) to be a gullible, nice guy, who tried to fast-track to the playoffs. He gave away a lot in the attempt.

 

Allvin, on the other hand, seems to me, to be a bit of a patient, hard-a**, who won't be fooled or taken advantage of.  

 

I think Allvin has a number (salary and term) that they won't go above to re-sign Miller.  Could be $8.5 x 6 years?  Miller is important to this team and he will lead them.  If they re-sign Miller, though, I can see them trading Horvat.

 

Really no idea what happens with Boeser. 

 

[JM_]

Just now, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Philly? 

thats kind of the one team I can see doing it, actually. He would fit them so well, fans would love him there.

 

But they only have 6 mil in cap next year. Which roster guys do we get back to make space? Konecny? 

 

Konecny + 5th oa? 

 

 

[Smashian Kassian]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats kind of the one team I can see doing it, actually. He would fit them so well, fans would love him there.

 

But they only have 6 mil in cap next year. Which roster guys do we get back to make space? Konecny? 

 

Konecny + 5th oa? 

 

 

 

Plenty of speculation about them moving a defenseman aswell to clear space - maybe Provorov or Sanheim. In the offseason teams find ways to make cap space. Them having that top pick is certainly intriguing for us. I could see them jumping into the mix.

 

The other team I added was LA, if they think they are ready to take a step. They have assets. 

 

I also wonder about the Islanders, a shakeup like that could be what they need, although I don't know there cap situation. 

 

And of course the Rangers, but can they fit him in when they already have Panarin/Zibanejad/Fox/Kreider (and soon to be Shesterkin) on big deals.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Kings

Avs

Blues

Nash (I don't care what anyone says)

Dal (especially if Radulov bolts)

TO

TB

Was

Bos

Pens

 

You could include Cal and Edm in that list too, but I don't think they'd deal with them

 

Miller to any of those teams at $5.25m puts them squarely in legit contender status

 

Nashville certainly hasn't 100% committed to their plans for next years team at this point. They're still battling for the last playoff spot this year lol. I'm sure all teams are always evaluating and re-evaluating their direction, and certainly in the offseason a major assessment is done

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Nashville certainly hasn't 100% committed to their plans for next years team at this point. They're still battling for the last playoff spot this year lol. I'm sure all teams are always evaluating and re-evaluating their direction, and certainly in the offseason a major assessment is done

Apparently some deals we see in the summer had their foundations laid during discussions at the TDL.  Allvin said he had good discussions with other teams.  

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Kings

Avs

Blues

Nash (I don't care what anyone says)

Dal (especially if Radulov bolts)

TO

TB

Was

Bos

Pens

 

You could include Cal and Edm in that list too, but I don't think they'd deal with them

 

Miller to any of those teams at $5.25m puts them squarely in legit contender status

 

I'd remove LA from that list, but if they want Miller and the return is good they'd be fun play ball with (their re-tool is clicking a little but i doubt it's going to stick for long, they've still got some pain ahead coming )... to AVs/TB are contenders already.   I have doubts we'd trade to a team in the West but it could happen depending on the return.  COL makes some sense given Kadri...  For sure there are enough teams that would love to have him for a year though.   

[mll]

44 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Do you think there is even a single team that would trade something like a late 1st, a-prospect and roster player for Miller who also would sign him to a long term deal? Can you name one team?

Could see a team like Philadelphia try.  They are under tremendous pressure to make the playoffs and want to change the make-up of their team.  Simply not convinced that he would want to sign with them long term given their track record.

 

It's kind of the issue for him.  Finding that team that has a long contending window ahead of them and will give him that retirement contract.  It's a bit the Karlsson conundrum - get paid or win.  Some teams are at the tail end of their contending window and could be forced into a rebuild a few years into an extension.  Others have already allocated cap space to other core players.  There are teams that might have cap space but an uncertain path forward.  

 

Maybe NYI - Lamoriello still believes in their core.  Boston could be another one but they've been reasonable with their contracts.

 

The issue for Vancouver is that it's no longer possible to gain additional assets upon re-signing.  So he's either traded as a 1-year rental or with an extension in place as part of the deal.  I think the former is more likely.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

sure, you gamble when you're in tank mode. You load up on potential at the right time. 

You gamble pretty much all the time. Your constantly looking to move pieces for other pieces that you hope will improve your team. Whether that's long term (rebuild), mid term (retool), or short term (contender). It's near constant risk and gambling.

 

Trying to guess which teams are going to be the ones to make an "illogical" gamble, trading for Miller is therefore difficult. Could be a contending team with an unexpected early exit from the playoffs. Could be a team like Washington, Boston or Pittsburgh with expiring cap elsewhere and closing windows. Could be an up and coming team like Carolina or New York looking for a piece to push them over... We'll know when we know.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

You gamble pretty much all the time. Your constantly looking to move pieces for other pieces that you hope will improve your team. Whether that's long term (rebuild), mid term (retool), or short term (contender). It's near constant risk and gambling.

 

Trying to guess which teams are going to be the ones to make an "illogical" gamble, trading for Miller is therefore difficult. Could be a contending team with an unexpected early exit from the playoffs. Could be a team like Washington, Boston or Pittsburgh with expiring cap elsewhere and closing windows. Could be an up and coming team like Carolina or New York looking for a piece to push them over... We'll know when we know.

Could be Miller stays put too.  

[aGENT]

41 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats kind of the one team I can see doing it, actually. He would fit them so well, fans would love him there.

 

But they only have 6 mil in cap next year. Which roster guys do we get back to make space? Konecny? 

 

Konecny + 5th oa? 

 

 

That 5th OA puts us in the Nemec/Jiricek range *drools*

[sxqhfeh]

It will be very disappointment if kept everyone and stayed what they are, this is a bubble hockey team with no real shot at ever winning the Cup. This is a team overachieving under Bruce. After one or two sessions you pay Miller 8.5x8, and Perttersson 9.5x8? they'll be a OEL type drag on the cap(Can't afford to keep both of them?). Ours Ds? They still run around in their own zone, give up the puck way to much, and rarely punish forwards for trying to drive the net. IMO, only Demoko and Hughes are worth being considered untouchable

Edited April 17, 2022 by sxqhfeh

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Could be Miller stays put too.  

It's possible. I think it's less likely be takes the discount required that he could get on a better team elsewhere, potentially with lower taxes as well. But it's certainly possible.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

It's possible. I think it's less likely be takes the discount required that he could get on a better team elsewhere, potentially with lower taxes as well. But it's certainly possible.

If we sign Miller to 60 million, what’s the best term?  We could go six years at 10 per.  Seems like too much on the cap.  

 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If we sign Miller to 60 million, what’s the best term?  We could go six years at 10 per.  Seems like too much on the cap.  

 

I don't think we can or should offer him $60m. I think we'd be looking at like $8's for 6 years (which still makes me uncomfortable) or around $50m. Which I think he could easily get from a better team, with a better chance at the cup, and potentially less taxes/more take home.

[mll]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'm still doing my due diligence and checking around though. Teams change their minds all the time and do unorthodox things to accomplish their goals. I'd rather go off actual phone calls and perseverance then tweets and such if I'm Patrick Allvin. Maybe there is a three way trade scenario. I don't think good GM's hold their soundbites as gospel or promises and they are free to change their minds. Did Verbeek and Davidson give details about when this plan ends or do they have to get fired before they can move forward, or put out a tweet with new intentions beforehand?

 

I totally get what you're saying though, there are obstacles, like I said some are more likely than others ... obviously. That seems like common sense. It doesn't mean out of the other 31 teams in the NHL no one wants Miller if he's available. I would probably pursue every avenue if it was my paid job. I'm sure Allvin is doing that as compared to just concluding it's hopeless.

 

 

 

Guerin says the Minnesota fanbase is too smart to be lied to and he would lose credibility if he tried. Not every GM believes that they need to lie to do their jobs effectively and some even prefer to connect with the fanbase so they can be invested in the direction the team is going.  Poile will openly say if he doesn't want to answer a question and has also corrected himself - just this summer talked of a re-build but then re-qualified it as a re-tool but insisted they had to get younger as there's no trophy for being the oldest team in the league.  Also acknowledged that it was going to take time to get where they want to be.

 

Verbeek told LeBrun that he's not willing to give much term to veterans.  They wanted to retain Lindholm but he wanted too much term for their liking.  Their D-corps looks a bit in shambles after letting Lindholm and Manson go.  Verbeek after trading Lindholm and Deslauriers: "As I’ve stated since arriving in Anaheim, our goal is to continue building a team that can compete for the Stanley Cup for the long haul. Adding players and assets that fit in the age group of our existing younger talent sets us up well for the future." 

 

Davidson insisted that this time they are going to really fix things.  He traded 23 year old Hagel for 2x 1st round picks at the TDL.  

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by mll